Womens Football Forum

Women's Football => Women's Football => Topic started by: sbahnhof on August 12, 2017, 07:18:52 AM

Title: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: sbahnhof on August 12, 2017, 07:18:52 AM
A survey reports that huge numbers of top-level female footballers are unpaid or quit early (http://www.womensfootball.eu/forum/index.php/topic,8340.msg84832.html#msg84832), and the study uncovered darker secrets. FIFpro interviewed more than 3,000 women's football players worldwide, and the full results will be published later in 2017:

- https://www.vavel.com/en/football/womens-football/814907-fifpros-womens-football-survey-causes-deep-concerns.html

Quote
3.5% (115 respondents) reported sexual harassment. Experiencing sexual harassment by coaching staff, fellow players and other staff working in football. With 5.4% of players reporting, experiencing homophobia. ... Of the 505 people surveyed [in 2016 in a UK report], 61% witnessed sexism, 24% had suffered bullying and 14.8% of respondents claimed they had been victim of sexual harassment.
(Vavel.com) (https://www.vavel.com/en/football/womens-football/814907-fifpros-womens-football-survey-causes-deep-concerns.html)

The announcement was made at a conference (https://twitter.com/DianeCaldwell7/status/894979781791539206) with Hedvig Lindahl and Hope Solo in Hoofddorp, Netherlands - https://twitter.com/CarreJonsson/status/894685748863148032



Coincidentally, this week we finally found out why Eni Aluko left the England women's team, and the nature of her complaint against the FA. There were allegations of bullying and harrassment by England staff and Mark Sampson.

The FA's investigation has concluded there is no case to answer, but the association paid her compensation of at least £40,000:

- http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40850231

- http://www.espnfc.com/womens-european-championship/story/3174569/fa-and-mark-sampson-cleared-over-grievance-raised-by-englands-eniola-aluko (Archive.org page) (http://web.archive.org/web/20170812055016/http://www.espnfc.com/womens-european-championship/story/3174569/fa-and-mark-sampson-cleared-over-grievance-raised-by-englands-eniola-aluko)

- https://twitter.com/EniAlu/status/894812840657342465 (Archive.org page) (http://web.archive.org/web/20170812060003/https://twitter.com/EniAlu/status/894812840657342465)

Herman Ouseley of Kick It Out has also called on the FA to give more information on what has gone on:

- https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/aug/07/eni-aluko-herman-ouseley-england-women-mark-sampson-fa

Related threads:
- Sexism in womens football (2007) (http://www.womensfootball.eu/forum/index.php?topic=127.0)
- Discrimination in women's football (2017) (http://www.womensfootball.eu/forum/index.php?topic=8337.0)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Armisa_Ku%C4%87_v_Eniola_Aluko_2014_(cropped).jpg/300px-Armisa_Ku%C4%87_v_Eniola_Aluko_2014_(cropped).jpg)
Eni Aluko playing for England in 2014
(pic: James Boyes, (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Armisa_Ku%C4%87_v_Eniola_Aluko_2014_(cropped).jpg) cc-by) (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/deed.en)
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Title: Re: Harrassment and bullying in football
Post by: coey on August 15, 2017, 08:15:59 AM
For the integrity of female football the 'Eni Aluko' needs clarity.
Why the payout and the ongoing payout that is taking money out of the game.
Perhaps Aluko should decline her England retainer .

As for England coaches, they only ever see work rate and cant see much else in the game.
Title: Re: Harrassment and bullying in football
Post by: sbahnhof on August 17, 2017, 05:21:03 AM
For the integrity of female football the 'Eni Aluko' needs clarity.
Why the payout and the ongoing payout that is taking money out of the game.
Perhaps Aluko should decline her England retainer .

As for England coaches, they only ever see work rate and cant see much else in the game.


Dan Critchlow came close to asking the $64,000 question:

Quote
The FA claim that this payment was simply to avoid any disruption to the team at the tournament, but it hardly seems standard practice  to make payments to people who might talk about unsettling topics.
(Daily Cannon, 14 Aug 2017) (http://dailycannon.com/2017/08/chelseas-eni-aluko-allegedly-paid-by-fa-to-keep-bullying-complaint-quiet/)

The FA blatantly "bought" good PR by paying Aluko, which ironically looks like really bad PR for them. Now the story's getting way out of the FA's control:

- https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/aug/16/eni-aluko-fa-under-pressure-explain-money

- http://sport.bt.com/football/england-women-boss-mark-sampson-alleged-to-have-made-racial-remark-to-player-S11364204511213 (Archive page) (https://web.archive.org/web/20170817010327/http://sport.bt.com/football/england-women-boss-mark-sampson-alleged-to-have-made-racial-remark-to-player-S11364204511213)

- https://twitter.com/LHigginswal/status/897926481732665344


About Sampson, the big news is oh god he's an idiot:

Quote
[Mark Sampson, talking to a midfielder about bookings and cautions: ‘Haven’t you been arrested before? Four times isn’t it?’]

[Aluko's statement:] “This comment about the player was made with derogatory, racial and prejudicial connotations. It was also a defamatory, untrue statement given that the player has never been arrested and MS’s comment indicates an assumption (subconscious or conscious) that being mixed race from London suggests a criminal record with the police.

“Although I was not present at the meeting, other players confirmed MS made this comment. Other players confirmed the comment was not received as a joke and created an awkward atmosphere in the room. I was deeply concerned about this comment and felt it was highly inappropriate for the national team coach to make such a sweeping negative generalisation about a new player in the team.”

Publicly, Aluko has stated only that she believes team selections were made on the basis of “popularity” rather than form. However, privately the player who has won 102 caps for her country appears to have felt like she was the victim of sustained bullying and alleges the unfavourable treatment began a month after Sampson’s appointment (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/all-change-as-mark-sampson-promises-fresh-start-for-englands-women-9014095.html) in April 2014. [sic]

Drawing a link to the alleged incident, Aluko’s complaint continued: “As a black female in the team, understanding the unfavourable, racial and social connotations underlying MS’s comment further heightened my feelings of fear and isolation, especially in light of the previous instances where I have been negatively singled out, too.”

(The Guardian, 16 Aug 2017) (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/aug/16/eni-aluko-fa-under-pressure-explain-money)


I've copied the entire section, not because we need a long boring debate on Sampson and his 'jokes'. The problem is wider than that. Things like coaching staff merrily dismissing Aluko as "lazy", without thinking about how they'd be seen as stereotyping her. That's even if there wasn't any racism intended. It's still a big problem in attitudes. (And for some white people there's a strong desire not to see racism, to avoid having to think about it.)

Other problems have been plain to see – the favouritism in the squad, and the sidelining of Aluko for non-football reasons in 2016. No way was Spacey's "promotion" in June (http://www.womensfootball.eu/forum/index.php/topic,8346.msg84535.html#msg84535) the full story either.

Nobody can blame Aluko for taking money from the FA. Arguing over amounts and "how much" is missing the point. The questions are why, what happened, and how can they stop this from happening again?
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Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football
Post by: sbahnhof on August 18, 2017, 12:47:58 PM

It's getting very interesting. Obviously necessary not to let your negative feelings about Sampson or Aluko have too much influence on your judgement, but we all knew that.

Appropriately enough, the FA seems to have been recording everything Watergate tapes-style. According to the lawyer Katharine Newton, who examined the case, the "arrest" comment wasn't made. Others disagree:

Quote
Aluko had described her team-mate as “distressed” and other sources have told the Guardian the same. At least one other player who was with England during the China Cup in 2015 said she believed the comment was made.
(The Guardian, 17 Aug 2017) (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/aug/17/eni-aluko-hush-money-case-fa-bows-to-pressure-and-reveals-findings)

Plenty of new reports have emerged since yesterday, even including Newton's 15-page letter ??? Bear in mind, this matter was conducted privately for a long time, but not anymore:

- https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/aug/17/eni-aluko-hush-money-case-fa-bows-to-pressure-and-reveals-findings
- http://www.thefa.com/news/2017/aug/17/fa-statement-170817
- independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/mark-sampson-england-womens-racism-racial-abuse-eni-aluko-football-association-a7899101.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/mark-sampson-england-womens-racism-racial-abuse-eni-aluko-football-association-a7899101.html)
- http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40962526
- http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40968909

Seems like the FA are praying for this to blow over, and possibly setting Sampson up for a fall. But any problems in treatment or attitude, if they exist in the England camp, won't be confined to him. And the £80,000 compensation is a real head-scratcher. It goes beyond "keeping the peace" by keeping Aluko on a contract.
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Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football
Post by: sbahnhof on August 18, 2017, 02:02:46 PM

Well, now we're getting to the nub of it:


FA facing calls for greater transparency after Eni Aluko payment
- www.theguardian.com/football/2017/aug/17/fa-greater-transparency-eni-aluko-case (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/aug/17/fa-greater-transparency-eni-aluko-case)

I doubt there'll be much transparency, but the fact of FA flaws being discussed, publicly in the media, is valuable. We all know the flaws are there - especially in their PR obsession.
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football
Post by: sbahnhof on August 19, 2017, 04:00:42 AM

How many players will publicly denounce England/Sampson before it officially becomes "bad for business"? What's the FA's limit? Maybe we'll find out.

This is all pretty unusual. Usually the women's football media go easy on the FA.

The women speaking out about the England camp are not the ones on trial here. The FA are. Even if the stories weren't true, the FA's actions would still be suspect and weird. The women's football media know this. They aren't holding back this time. Journalists are digging, maybe because they know there's more to tell.

Lianne Sanderson's interview today (also quote from Anita Asante) isn't radically new and surprising, but, well... Are you surprised that England had a noticeboard telling players what to say in postmatch interviews?

'Everyone must conform with England'
- www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40979890 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40979890)

Race is not mentioned. The players the BBC quoted happen to be black and mixed-race, as the media are choosing to present it this way in the wake of Aluko's comments. But their claims are mostly about players' media training – Sanderson says players were "robots" with no opinions allowed – and she and Asante talk about how the squad atmosphere was handled. They say that dropped players felt singled out. This was seen clearly when Casey Stoney was dropped as England captain:

Quote
When Mark Sampson appointed Steph Houghton as his new captain, Stoney found out from the TV and admits she struggled with the decision.

She feels she was playing well and had done little wrong.

“Yeah (I disliked him) if I’m honest. He knows that, he knows the first six months I wasn’t his best friend. It was a really tough time for me,” she said.

“And I have a fantastic relationship with him now, and I don’t think I’d be there if I hadn’t gone through that to start with. It was a test.

“And I’m a big believer in those moments making you as a person. The minute I switched the TV off I went ‘right, what am I going to do?’ I can walk away, but no I’ll dictate when I retire because it’s my career and I’m in control of it.”

(Express, 8 Sep 2016) (http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/708296/Casey-Stoney-interview-womens-football-expansion)
Great communication, Mark (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg/80px-Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg)

At this stage the term "bullying" seems overly strong, but there's an impression of an authoritarian management style. This is actually the exact opposite of how Sampson presents the squad dynamic (http://www.thefa.com/get-involved/coach/the-boot-room/issue-25/inside-england_050517) – he says criticism is encouraged, and decisions are taken in a close-knit group. They've prided themselves on how together the squad has been.

It's possible both are partly true. The criticism cuts both ways, the squad gets cliquey, and others feel left-out. Such an atmosphere would probably be hard to get rid of, even with a different manager. Anyway it's the weekend now. No news is reported over a weekend, surely?

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Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football
Post by: Welsh May on August 19, 2017, 09:50:28 AM
I am not sure I have a particular problem with the team being asked to conform as such to the key messages for the squad. Most interviews with sports persons nowadays are stage managed and often they're given team soundbites. It's the same with industry, primarily to keep 'selling' your product or your building public confidence in the product?. And generally it works to create an impression and strengthens the belief both of the company or in the product. You need to be on message. So that part doesn't bother me so much and for me would make me think players are somewhat naïve if they don't get the business element ...... but may again be about how that requirement has been communicated to the players. Whatever.
What concerns me reading all about this, are the undertones about communications and racism and sometimes it is very difficult to categorically say something is racist when it's subtle or unclear. But it is easy to identify if something has been communicated poorly i.e. the Stoney example. The fact she didn't/did like Sampson is irrelevant to me, but the communication over the captaincy was poor. If his communication is less than perfect surely that opens the door to presume some of his other communications were also of poorer standard. The use of the word lazy is an interesting example given she has a point that certain words are aligned to certain people and more freely used and more likely to be applied?. Rather than saying Aluko is 'having an off game' or 'whys she really not with it today', 'Aluko needs to get more involved in the game', the bog standard comments us football pundits make, instead the term 'lazy' was applied instead. Then that's racism or discrimination in my mind?. So I found that an interesting outcome to the investigation .........
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: croc on August 20, 2017, 10:06:29 AM
Whilst I accept that players have to be professional I do have a problem with it players are expected to conform to such an extent that it creates a climate where players don't feel free to voice opinions.  My other sport is cycling and I do feel in that - talking about the GB squad - women who voice critical opinions tend to be branded as "difficult" and edged out.  The important thing is the machine and the athletes are cogs who can be replaced at the whim of a coach.  Is there a similar culture in the England womens football set up ?

Would the England men be expected to come out with certain messages and sound bites, obviously they get media training these days but would men be expected to conform quite so much?   I get the impression in cycling Chris Hoy was treated very differently to say Victoria Pendleton - the former working with coaches the latter working for them.

Obviously football is a team game but there needs to be space for individual opinions and different characters.   The FA seem very much an organisation that believe in their way or the highway right down to the England DNA stuff.  Perhaps the way the senior team is run is symptomatic of why we are producing robotic footballers.
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: WFA on August 20, 2017, 01:44:34 PM
Obviously football is a team game but there needs to be space for individual opinions and different characters.   The FA seem very much an organisation that believe in their way or the highway right down to the England DNA stuff.  Perhaps the way the senior team is run is symptomatic of why we are producing robotic footballers.

 :-X
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: sbahnhof on August 20, 2017, 07:55:51 PM
The women speaking out about the England camp are not the ones on trial here. The FA are. Even if the stories weren't true, the FA's actions would still be suspect and weird.

Can't stress that enough.

Some cryptic tweets by Emma Byrne (http://www.womensfootball.eu/forum/index.php/topic,945.0.html) in reaction to the claims. And "I should write a book" ???

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Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: croc on August 20, 2017, 10:30:08 PM
Obviously football is a team game but there needs to be space for individual opinions and different characters.   The FA seem very much an organisation that believe in their way or the highway right down to the England DNA stuff.  Perhaps the way the senior team is run is symptomatic of why we are producing robotic footballers.

 :-X

?
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: sbahnhof on August 20, 2017, 10:47:57 PM
I have removed a couple of posts I didn't feel were very helpful to the discussion.

Please remember you are responsible for what you post. Thanks
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: sbahnhof on August 22, 2017, 04:50:17 AM

Aluko says the 7 August story (https://twitter.com/EniAlu/status/894812840657342465) in the Daily Mail (based on a leaked document) wasn't her doing, and she's doing interviews now that she's been legally advised she can discuss details.

Media focusing on the alleged "ebola" comment which wasn't in her initial complaint. Shocking if true, hard to prove, but the FA could still come out of this looking worst imo.

- https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/aug/21/eni-aluko-interview-race-difficult-situation
- https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/aug/21/eni-aluko-england-manager-mark-sampson-ebola
- http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40995165

The FA's investigations seem at odds with key information from other players who weren't interviewed. The FA allegedly paid Aluko a financial settlement to avoid going to court for an employment tribunal. Either because they feared they'd lose, or in their own words, "to avoid disruption". (How would they describe the current events?)

Apparently, the FA brought this all on themselves. They held an England players' "culture review" in May 2016.

The circumstances of Aluko being dropped from the squad are one of the main details, perhaps the crucial new information. We knew she played as sub against Belgium on 8 Apr 2016 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35937097) and the full game in Bosnia on 12 April (http://www.thefa.com/news/2016/apr/12/uefa-womens-euro-2017-qualifier-bosnia-zenica-match-report). She was dropped entirely from the squad announced on 25 May 2016 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36380461) for the Serbia game.

In that time, she says, she had raised her complaints about the team dynamic in that FA review, supposed to be anonymous. A week later Sampson told her she was dropped.

Quote
When I asked why he said it was because of ‘unlioness behaviour’. ... The best he could come up with was that I had looked withdrawn in meetings.
(The Guardian,
theguardian.com/football/2017/aug/21/eni-aluko-interview-race-difficult-situation)
(https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/aug/21/eni-aluko-interview-race-difficult-situation)

On BBC she recalls it as she "wasn't abiding by 'Lioness standards'" (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40995165), but ‘unlioness behaviour’... that's the worst phrase I've heard so far :'(

Within days of this, she says, the FA investigated her work as a sports agency lawyer, which she had to give up although it hadn't been an issue until then. The allegation of being bullied out of the squad by England and the FA is pretty convincing. It will require another investigation. Or heads to roll. She names other black players who've been mysteriously shunned, and says she wants "better transparency and a better realisation that this might happen again, and when it happens again it needs be dealt with in a better way". Which most people would agree with.
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Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: coey on August 22, 2017, 07:45:59 AM
Having seen the interviews and read the links.
I am with the FA apart from paying out for 4 years losss of earnings.
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: sbahnhof on August 22, 2017, 07:52:28 AM

That's not why they paid it. Even the FA said that's not why they paid it.
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: croc on August 22, 2017, 09:08:37 AM
I'm struggling to see that Aluko has anything on Sampson other than that he's made some clumsy jokes.   When he says he has to improve his communication skills he seems to mean he shouldn't assume a level of familiarity with his players that they may not reciprocate. 

If the FA have used a confidential process against Aluko then that is different - presumably any compensation paid has been because that should not have happened ?
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: coey on August 22, 2017, 12:21:19 PM
I'm struggling to see that Aluko has anything on Sampson other than that he's made some clumsy jokes.   When he says he has to improve his communication skills he seems to mean he shouldn't assume a level of familiarity with his players that they may not reciprocate. 



plus one
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: Dr Gonzo on August 22, 2017, 02:47:07 PM
According to Eni's twitter the £80 grand was on the lines of an out of court settlement it seems her legal team felt that they would have had a good case at a tribunal... Sampson was cleared of wrong doing in the course of independent inquiries but they tend to be politically motivate (which is why Grenfell will be a public inquiry and not an inquest).  Certainly he thinks he's this great comic and its so painfully clear that he isn't, indeed if Bernie Winters had become a football manager he would have been way funnier than Sampson.  Even knowing a person really well it would be unlikely that jokes about Ebola would go down too well.  ..The fact that he has acknowledged he has to improve his 'communication skills' shows that there is a problem....certainly the whole thing is now a bloody mess... 
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: sbahnhof on August 22, 2017, 08:53:39 PM

FA close ranks, because, well, they have to. Sampson has the support of current England players. He'll address the case during the next squad announcement:

- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/08/22/fa-continue-back-mark-sampson-despite-fresh-allegations-racism/ (Archive page) (https://web.archive.org/web/20170822194914/http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/08/22/fa-continue-back-mark-sampson-despite-fresh-allegations-racism/)

Quote
[Gordon Taylor, PFA] told Telegraph Sport any new inquiry should be led by a QC or barrister jointly appointed by both the FA and PFA. That is a view endorsed by Former FA director of corporate affairs, Simon Johnson, now chief executive of the Jewish Leadership Council. Johnson’s remit at the FA included anti-discrimination matters.

“It’s clearly an unsatisfactory situation where you have the alleged victim very dissatisfied with the process and the governing body perfectly satisfied with the process,” Johnson said.

(Telegraph) (https://web.archive.org/web/20170822194914/http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/08/22/fa-continue-back-mark-sampson-despite-fresh-allegations-racism/)
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: sbahnhof on August 24, 2017, 11:25:53 PM

I was sad that some people still think there's nothing wrong and "innocent until proven innocent". But Coey's post (http://www.womensfootball.eu/forum/index.php/topic,8404.msg85027.html#msg85027) from Tuesday has made that whole opinion just seem comical.

Hey, it's only a potential whitewash of possible bullying and corruption. But my spidey senses told me the FA were honest :D
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: sbahnhof on August 25, 2017, 12:40:33 AM

More support for Aluko from Lianne Sanderson, in a 5 Live interview:

- http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41019789

And Anita Asante:

- https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/aug/23/england-women-fearful-speaking-out-anita-asante

And Chelsea, to their credit:

Quote
“We commend Eni for coming forward and speaking about her experiences.

“Chelsea Football Club finds any and all forms of discrimination abhorrent and it is imperative that players are supported when coming forward to speak about these issues.”

(Telegraph,
telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/08/22/football-association-urged-launch-fresh-inquiry-eni-aluko-bullying)
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/08/22/football-association-urged-launch-fresh-inquiry-eni-aluko-bullying/)

And credit to Emma Hayes for having principles on this issue. Even this uncritical statement may damage the Chelsea boss's future relationship with the FA.

MP Rosena Allin-Khan has also called for a new inquiry (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/08/22/fa-continue-back-mark-sampson-despite-fresh-allegations-racism/), "when the FA need to be doing all they can to attract young women and people from minority backgrounds into football".

Those players above have also all mentioned they suspect the FA won't allow them to be selected for England again.



We should let Sampson clear his name, I say! It's all very messy at the moment. And the FA haven't even had the decency to release a random video of a meeting where Sampson didn't say "you've been arrested"! That doesn't help the public, or the FA, or Sampson. Cos of the lingering suspicion. :o

So I've been forced to find a video myself. It may or may not be the right one, but definitely a good distraction:

EXHIBIT A: Sampson not being racist in a meeting:
- www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgKh2XDVJiM
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/KAN5NtKnasg/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEWCMQBEG5IWvKriqkDCQgBFQAAiEIYAQ==&rs=AOn4CLB8M35dSrvIZuRdEXVeW3DOQUginQ) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgKh2XDVJiM)

See?

Also:

Certainly he thinks he's this great comic and its so painfully clear that he isn't, indeed if Bernie Winters had become a football manager he would have been way funnier than Sampson.  Even knowing a person really well it would be unlikely that jokes about Ebola would go down too well.

By an amazing coincidence, Sampson will try to make up for the Euros failure, and get back into the fans' good books, by covering an old Bernie Winters song. Can he be funnier? Not sure, but he's going to sing this before the Russia qualifier:

EXHIBIT B: "There's An Elephant In My Bedroom"
- www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaVrZRJfTBE
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/XaVrZRJfTBE/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEWCMQBEG5IWvKriqkDCQgBFQAAiEIYAQ==&rs=AOn4CLBIjI58z36o2hi3M83u4xu_75l9wg) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaVrZRJfTBE)

(allegedly)
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: Banbo on August 31, 2017, 10:54:33 PM
The thing that has really hacked me off about this sorry state of affairs is that here we have two England footballers raising a serious complaint about the management against the top level of women's football. Quite rightly an investigation is held by the senior mangement at the FA, which would be reasonable - in any organisation. Then they decide to have a second investigation by a barrister no less, which appears nothing less than thorough - again this sounds very compliant in most organisations.
Now I am not sure about the first enquiry (as I didn't see anything mentioned), but how on earth can the second enquiry take place by a barrister and find 'no case to answer' when the two footballers making the allocations were NOT ACTUALLY INTERVIEWED by the barrister ???
I have held senior positions in businesses for many years which has required me to conduct numerous HR reviews including some cases such as these and I have never worked for an organisation that would dream of holding an enquiry of this nature without interviewing every party involved. How the hell can you evaluate what has occurred without doing this?
The FA need to move into this century and stop burying their heads in the sand, however, I guess you only get the outcome you can be sure of if you only listen to one side of the argument.

Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: Dr Gonzo on September 13, 2017, 06:52:29 PM
Gee this is starting to get out of hand now...maybe time for old Marky boy to do the decent thing and go....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-4876392/England-Women-boss-Mark-Sampson-faces-fresh-scrutiny.html
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: buzzbee on September 20, 2017, 09:35:23 AM
but how on earth can the second enquiry take place by a barrister and find 'no case to answer' when the two footballers making the allocations were NOT ACTUALLY INTERVIEWED by the barrister ???
Did Aluko not say that she would not take part in the independent enquiry, because she didn’t believe it would be done fairly or something?

If I am reading correctly, that enquiry didn’t say Sampson was innocent. It just said that there was no case to answer. If those making the allegations won’t then take part in the enquiry, then there is no case to answer, is there?

I am no fan of Sampson and if he is genuinely guilty, I hope he gets what he deserves, but Aluko’s handling of this whole affair has been terrible and has opened herself wide to accusations of just trying to cause trouble for a coach he doesn’t like

Ebola comment – Bad thing to say. Very insensitive, but not racist. It was a joke in poor taste, regarding a disease. The fact that the disease was in Africa doesn’t make the comment racist!

Arrest comment – Again, not racist! White people get arrested too. Seemingly a video of the meeting do not seem to show him making that comment, which Aluko wasn’t there to hear

“Lazy” comment – Coaches criticize players for being lazy all the time. If you disagree, you ask the coach why he thinks that! Coaches are not there to pamper players!

“Pain in the arse” comment – appears to have been said jovially and the more this goes on, the more it seems to have some accuracy about it!

If a player feels like she has been singled out for bullying and racism, I would expect there to be more than just the things that have been made public, but in trying to win sympathy, you would expect Aluko to go public with some of the worse incidents. If these are among the worse, then I’m afraid I just don’t see a case!

Last night’s comments from her on Twitter just make her look more bitter IMHO, criticizing the players for showing her a lack of respect towards her and calling them selfish!

I wonder how the Chelsea players in that team will feel about playing with her at the weekend?
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: buzzbee on September 20, 2017, 03:33:56 PM
Well, she has got her way then! BREAKING NEWS: Mark Sampson set to leave as England women's manager (http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41326806)

I wonder if Sampson’s preplacement will feel obliged to play Eni and if so, what atmosphere will that create in the team?
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: croc on September 20, 2017, 04:47:09 PM
BBC reports departure relates to fresh allegations made about his conduct in a previous role!  No doubt if they know that much these allegations will leak out - got to say so far even if true the ebola and arrested comments don't necessarily equate to racism but we will see what comes out in the wash.
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: croc on September 20, 2017, 06:11:53 PM
So it seems he's been sacked for inappropriate relationships  with players during his time at Bristol, something the FA had previously investigated years ago and sent him on a safeguarding course over as a result.   Guardian reporter tweeting it's quite a major scandl - if so why did the FA clear him to continue coaching? 
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: Cabbages on September 20, 2017, 08:51:47 PM
good riddance to sampson- should never have got the job in the first place. The FA is an ass and always will be-
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: Dr Gonzo on September 21, 2017, 02:42:00 PM
Well, she has got her way then! BREAKING NEWS: Mark Sampson set to leave as England women's manager (http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41326806)

I wonder if Sampson’s preplacement will feel obliged to play Eni and if so, what atmosphere will that create in the team?

It was never just about Eni other players were effected and would the players left out by Sampson want to come back especially after the WC qualifier...the opener against Russia may go down as one of the most ill judged goal celebrations in history...
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: croc on September 21, 2017, 04:53:11 PM
Well let's wait and see what he's done.   Some of you may know but for those of us not privileged with inside information it could be anything from predatory behaviour constituting abuse of power for sexual gratification or something rather more forgiveable.   It's clear many of the England players are right behind him and the two loudest critics are both players he discarded.   So far I've seen nothing that suggests to me he should have been sacked though if his behaviour at Bristol constitutes him taking advantage of his position or of young players I certainly wont be defending him.
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: Welsh May on September 23, 2017, 11:11:38 AM
... I read it slightly differently but maybe being cynical...... that the FA know with a full investigation now being held into the Eni Aluko matters, they realise there are grounds and perhaps also have wind of the additional statements being made and therefore its better to let him go now than face big more public press further down the line .... once it breaks it will be lesser news in 3/4 mths time and certainly if racism is upheld and do less damage than being upheld now if he no longers works for the FA?.

However does raise some questions as to a} how he wasn't properly vetted being he became England manager?; or did they really not think it mattered that he had been 'sent' on a safeguarding course?, was the course meant to fix the problem, unlikely, he was caught out making an inappropriate comment/action, a days course doesn't fix that?; b) the investigation twice done which wasn't done properly again raises questions about the FAs way of working ,such claims and not do the whole investigation, I find that upsetting that if my daughter faced discrimination it would be buried, minimalized or denied as being racism. If Eni feels it's racism then investigate properly. Doesn't matter what we all think, I have no idea and all the group hugs and teamy nonsense mean nothing if she is proven to be correct. Its her take on it that matters, the other players may not experience it, see it or acknowledge it. So whatever, the FA should have taken it seriously and asked her to bring forward evidence and witnesses who may support that claim and spoken to them. And finally for me c)  given what occurred against the Dutch, his vision on correcting the problems he faced on the pitch (left side and full strike power) not sure he had the corrective vision but appreciate he appears to have brought a good team together even if they have a vested interest. Maybe not the best team IMO. Aluko is an excellent natural striker and should have gone to the Euros and played, we didn't gel up front for all the talk of teamwork and the left side needs work and where is Asante nowadays?. interesting times .............
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: buzzbee on September 25, 2017, 03:43:04 PM
With Kelly Smith suggesting that the FA should ensure the next manager is a woman, could this be a detrimental step in the overall fight for equality? I don’t mean if a woman is appointed, but if the decision is taken before an appointment, that it needs to be a woman.

There are those who are campaigning for more women to be given coaching roles within the men’s game (As well as ethnic minorities). I may be wrong, but I think Kelly Smith has been one of those calling for this. The thinking is (or at least should be) that if a job comes up in the men’s game, it should go to the best applicant, regardless of gender (or race). However, if there is a big job going in the women’s game and the decision is that only women should be considered, this could then be used as an argument for women not being considered for coaching roles in the men’s game.

The bottom line is that in BOTH cases, the best applicant should get the job!

IMHO, if he wants the job, I think Nick Cushing would be head and shoulders above the other candidates. It would be a shame if he is not considered, based on his gender, at a time when there is a real fight for equality in coaching men’s teams
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: Welsh May on September 25, 2017, 05:09:09 PM
Not sure I feel it has to be a woman, it would be good if it was I guess given it's the women's national team. However there was a lot of 'talk' around the previous, female, manager so the FA aren't having much luck it seems with selecting appropriate, managers? ........
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: Dr Gonzo on September 28, 2017, 04:11:59 PM
Quote
With Kelly Smith suggesting that the FA should ensure the next manager is a woman, could this be a detrimental step in the overall fight for equality? I don’t mean if a woman is appointed, but if the decision is taken before an appointment, that it needs to be a woman.

I don't think Kelly Smith said that I think it was more along the lines of 'it would be good if a women got the job'...well old Mo is in for the time being and well see what happens...But the whole thing has moved away from Eni Aluko and really about the FA their handling of the situation and who did what and when (or not as the case may be  Main point why was Sampson sacked over the situation at Bristol yet the racism etc left to pass. 
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: croc on September 28, 2017, 09:04:10 PM
Quote
With Kelly Smith suggesting that the FA should ensure the next manager is a woman, could this be a detrimental step in the overall fight for equality? I don’t mean if a woman is appointed, but if the decision is taken before an appointment, that it needs to be a woman.

I don't think Kelly Smith said that I think it was more along the lines of 'it would be good if a women got the job'...well old Mo is in for the time being and well see what happens...But the whole thing has moved away from Eni Aluko and really about the FA their handling of the situation and who did what and when (or not as the case may be  Main point why was Sampson sacked over the situation at Bristol yet the racism etc left to pass.

Because he was cleared of the charge of racism.
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: Dr Gonzo on September 30, 2017, 12:25:15 PM
Quote
With Kelly Smith suggesting that the FA should ensure the next manager is a woman, could this be a detrimental step in the overall fight for equality? I don’t mean if a woman is appointed, but if the decision is taken before an appointment, that it needs to be a woman.

I don't think Kelly Smith said that I think it was more along the lines of 'it would be good if a women got the job'...well old Mo is in for the time being and well see what happens...But the whole thing has moved away from Eni Aluko and really about the FA their handling of the situation and who did what and when (or not as the case may be  Main point why was Sampson sacked over the situation at Bristol yet the racism etc left to pass.

Because he was cleared of the charge of racism.

I'm not sure the Tony Blair style 'inquiry' is really that much of a ringing endorsement, it will be interesting to see what comes out of the commons select committee, it will be the first time Eni Aluko will have given her side of things to any kind of panel...
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: Cabbages on October 01, 2017, 11:00:17 AM
It has to be the best person for the job, dont care if it is a man or a women but the best English person-
Title: Re: Harrassment & bullying in football / Allegations
Post by: sylvain on October 13, 2017, 04:42:32 PM
The Aluko think is a complex situation, some of the bullying stuff she mentioned is coaching behaviour that you see in every country an international level. The racism allegations are more worrying.

Regarding the Bristol stuff, I find it strange that the FA conveniently found in a drawer the old inquiry about his behaviour. Everyone in the women football bubble knew about stories about him.
As usual there was no real proof shown around. But stories have been going round for a long time.