Womens Football Forum

Women's Football => Girl's Centres of Excellence => Topic started by: interested on October 19, 2016, 01:09:49 PM

Title: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: interested on October 19, 2016, 01:09:49 PM
Simple question:

Should the FA ban RTC players from County Schools Football to ensure a level playing field for ALL Counties involved in the ESFA competitions and make the process clear and transparent for all Parents, Players and organisations involved?
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: coey on October 19, 2016, 03:07:12 PM
still having problems where by English FA expect players to improve by playing less and I mean a lot less than abroad.
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: croc on October 19, 2016, 05:25:25 PM
Suppose it depends what the County squads are supposed to be for.   I don't think the RTC system is a good one but seeing as that is what we have I don't really see the point in having county teams full of RTC players.   

On the other hand it's interesting watching the RTC players and the non-RTC players in the same teams.
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: ProudDad01 on October 19, 2016, 07:52:36 PM
Would have thought irrelevant?
Schools nominate players for County Teams - why shouldnt a player get the chance to represent their school at County level if they are in a RTC?
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: Boot cleaner on October 19, 2016, 09:32:45 PM
Most of our County squad is non-RTC.  It is a good mix of school, grass roots and RTC players. I think it is inevitable that counties will want to select the best players wherever they may be playing. Interestingly, I believe Surrey train on a Saturday and attendance is mandatory.  As a result they don't have any RTC players, which with Chelsea on their doorstep, is a bit surprising.
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: croc on October 19, 2016, 10:35:18 PM
My daughter wasn't nominated by her school she got a leaflet at an rtc trial about the county trials and went along.   I just assumed that was how it worked.     It's mostly rtc players but good to hear that isn't the case everywhere.   
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: interested on October 20, 2016, 09:32:03 AM
Is it fair that RTC's are "Educating" players about not playing to much which means that RTC players are not representing their Counties- Surely it should be a level playing field for ALL Counties- Is it fair that some County Schools teams are run by the same coach that runs the RTC U16's and therefore will release players to play and are able to train them twice a week and a match while other Counties RTC's will not support players to enable them to represent their County.

Surely it should be a level playing field for ALL Counties and not just the MINORITY 
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: croc on October 20, 2016, 01:16:21 PM
How would you change it ?  You obviously have a view on it.   

As things stand RTCs are charged with doing what they think is best to develop players and presumably county coaches are charged with winning games - some will have a stronger hand than others by the looks of it - I don't have a huge problem with it though it's youth football not the world cup and whilst if I was in charge of a county I'd probably want to pick from the RTCs as well as elsewhere I can see why the RTCs would want to protect players from playing too much football.
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: pool47 on October 21, 2016, 07:49:33 PM
Difficult isn't it? In our county one RTC has actively discouraged players from representing their county. The irony is that it is county football that gives a lot of girls the idea / encouragement to trial for rtcs. Sadly a number of players have followed the directions given and chosen not to play. It's an argument that invokes different views. The underlying theme is that there are a lot of  good players out there and not all at rtcs. If Counties couldn't pick etc players (and some already don't) it would create more opportunities for grass roots players. If denied the opportunity to represent their county some players may leave their RTCS!
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: Boot cleaner on October 22, 2016, 09:04:45 PM
I was talking to a parent at another RTC today who was bemoaning the fact that County football was not an option for his daughter because of where they lived.  As a result she had plenty of weekends during the season without a fixture which is the worst thing imaginable for a girl who loves football.

Sure some RTCs may discourage their squads from playing County football but I suspect they do so only because they feel it is in there own best interests. Sadly, in my experience an ethical approach is not something that is top of the list of RTC core values.

With the caveat that I am not a trained physio I would say it is the parents' responsibility to make sure their child does not overdo it in terms of playing too much.  So if county football doesn't clash with RTC fixtures then why shouldn't a girl do both?  Learning and developing by playing is incredibly important.

If that wasn't enough our county coach is much better than our RTC coach and as a result I think my daughter really benefits from the coaching.

I can understand why non-RTC parents might want county football reserved for non-RTC players but I feel that if you are representing your county it should be because you are one of the best players in the county irrespective of where you play your club football. Where we live we have the option of the London Youth Games where the rules exclude RTC players for the football and RTC equivalent players for for other sports which is great if your child plays a sport to a good standard but is not at an RTC or equivalent.
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: croc on December 04, 2016, 07:44:40 PM
Does anyone know what the rules are for substitutions for these games - are they roll on roll off or once you are off you are off ?  Thanks
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: Maytime on December 04, 2016, 08:02:06 PM
Does anyone know what the rules are for substitutions for these games - are they roll on roll off or once you are off you are off ?  Thanks

Rolling subs.
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: croc on December 04, 2016, 09:20:56 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: croc on January 11, 2017, 12:47:16 AM
Anyone know if the teams are mainly rtc or grassroots - especially the east and west mids teams ?
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: pool47 on January 19, 2017, 10:53:54 PM
Generally mixed. Don't know about those counties. Some school fas put a lot of detail on their website so you can check squad lists against rtcs. For example a number of Durham's players are at Durham RTC and some at terrier. If you checked Essex out I think you'd find they are all RTC whereas South Yorkshire have no RTC players. Good competitive football as a rule.
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: croc on February 12, 2017, 10:23:32 AM
Derbyshire through to I think the Semis after beating Northumberland 4-1

Anyone got any inside information on who the form teams are in this, where would your money be?
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: pool47 on February 12, 2017, 12:49:59 PM
Essex & Sussex through as well. Worcs play Durham Thursday. Not sure there is such a thing in this competition as every year seems to bring a different winner. Last year's winners didn't qualify and another first time winner looks likely. Some school's website provide plenty of detail and some provide none.
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: Welsh May on April 26, 2017, 06:33:44 AM
Derbyshire a good squad with lot of RTC players, though Leics parent said that Notts beat them last night 4-1 with team inc 4 grassroots players in their squad so never know ... though couple of the key Derbyshire players missing from their team, one away with England u16s, Notts team also missing their England player?. Though seems most teams are solely RTC ....
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: croc on April 26, 2017, 09:45:52 AM
Yes first half should have been bigger Derbyshire lead second half Notts played all the football and deserved to win.  Correct they were missing two players who are key to the way they play but even so I think it's best described as a bad day at the office.

Anyone else there or watched the East Mids group I'd be interested in what you thought.
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: mikeyfaz on May 03, 2017, 03:44:21 PM
what age do the country games start?
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: croc on May 04, 2017, 12:17:25 PM
For females u14 then u16, though don't think they all enter an u14s.   There are more age groups for the lads.   
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: croc on May 09, 2017, 12:02:38 PM
National final live on youtube this afternoon!! 

Ps - haven't checked but I was told it was
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: croc on May 09, 2017, 10:30:20 PM
Derbyshire 2 Sussex 0, the youtube stream was very patchy and they've taken the video down now so maybe didn't work ?   Meant to be a one sided game could have been more than 2 and Sussex didn't threaten though I've not seen it myself. 
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: Welsh May on May 11, 2017, 05:25:15 AM
And will meet Notts in the final now as won 3-1 v Staffs last night at St Georges Park. So demonstrates a team with a number of strong grass roots players can match those with predominantly RTC players given Notts recent string of wins, Leics have 5/6 England linked players in its midst? Team spirit counts for a lot ........
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: croc on May 11, 2017, 09:01:09 AM
Yes i've no doubt there are players in grassroots who are better than their RTC equivalents but the RTCs (round here at least) don't actively scout or even ask grassroots coaches if they have anyone who they should consider for an extended trial ( a couple of hours in June when you don't know anyone isn't a guide).   

The real problem for the grassroots players will come when they look for an u18 squad and the WPL side is asking what RTC/England/Regional experience they have on the trial form and advertising it as an exit route for RTC players - it just gives the impression of a closed system when sport should be a meritocracy.   
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: Welsh May on May 14, 2017, 08:47:28 AM
From our experience of trials, players who know each other can simply play to each other and its hard for a sole outsider to break through. I agree with you about going to train for a few weeks with an RTC prior to the summer trials is the best way of showing what you can do. Doesn't always go down well with the club you're at. One of my daughter was at a very well known grass roots club who actively discouraged players from progressing?. So not always easy. But if you want your daughter to build fitness and create a pathway futurewise (not necessarily England etc wise), it remains the best route still .....

Agree on your other point too. Derbyshire (who have a couple of England named players 1 only picked up this year) will meet Notts with no International linked players playing in their squad (their 1 international, was injured some weeks ago). They meet in the East/West Midlands Cup Final ..... which means these two teams have passed Worcs, Staffs, Leics who all have a number of England/Ireland/Wales, etc squad members (u15s-u17s)....  think that also says something ................. And mirrors what I have commented on before, about 'who' is sending players up to NPC/EPCs? and supports your comment about the general lack of scouting. Because clearly some players are being bypassed? ........ and given our England u17s and u16s results in recent tournaments, the FA people need to open up their vision to girls beyond those recommended by RTC coaches. Coaches do have favourites you know! Appreciate the pathways take time to develop but it all needs to be more open minded ....

Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: Bananas on May 14, 2017, 01:26:50 PM
I can't comment at all re how players are selected for EPC/NPC/international squad but it's not true to say that the u16 squad hasn't performed well in recent tournaments since they've done really well. They won the February UEFA development tournament against Spain, Italy and Finland. The recent eight nations tournament, organised by Italy, was clearly stacked to ensure Italy did well by having Italy put in the easiest of the two groupings.. Although England did come fifth in the tournament, this doesn't reflect how well they really did, because their grouping was made up of teams that all decisively won their final matches against each team in Italy's grouping. This isn't an excuse for coming fifth, but you have to look beyond that to judge true performance.
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: pool47 on May 15, 2017, 03:33:07 PM
All the comments are interesting to read and their is merit in all of them as there's no consistency across the board which, for me, implies lack of direction from the FA. Some RTCs have favourites, some will give all players a fair crack. Some will support County football some actively discouraged players from taking part. The perception that RTCS have the best players is not​ correct, yes they put players on the pathway and develop them but as has been said there is no scouting process. If you go to lads tournaments at the end of season they are crawling with scouts. In my experience that doesn't happen with the girls.

In the past 12 months my daughter's grassroots team have had the opportunity to test themselves in friendly fixtures against a tier 3 RTC and an ACC and have acquitted themselves well with a draw against the former and an odd goal defeat against the latter. If a scout had turned up to watch these games without knowing which team was which it would have taken a while to figure out. In my view that while great strides are being made and more doors open for the girls there's much more that can be done.
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: Welsh May on May 15, 2017, 06:48:35 PM
Seems to me there needs to be a way of recommending that a player is looked at from outside of RTCs, which has to be verified by at least two other independent manager/coaches/local FA or county rep squad manager perhaps. It happened with Niamh Cushin who only played with boys and she played was then picked up for England u15s Schools and England u16s in one year. But there should be a clear pathway...... which has a process to it so England coaches are un-indated with lots of players they would never be able to get out to?
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: croc on November 07, 2017, 08:50:56 AM
Derbyshire beat Notts 5-4 in a bit of a thriller last night, coming from 4-2 down and hitting the full face of the bar 4 times before getting the winner late on.   Some good attacking play from both sides.
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: andydinger on November 18, 2017, 10:40:26 AM
Just FYI, I was talking to an England scout at a recent RTC game and he was bemoaning the fact that they didn't have the time or resources to get to more games outside the RTC pathway. They are mostly volunteers who get paid expenses for a limited number of games so obviously they have to prioritise the games where there is the most potential talent on display. They do sometimes get to the latter rounds of the ESFA county cups and occasionally a schools final or 2 but they are completely unable to follow up on a tip-off about some single individual at a grassroots club. The only way to be sure of putting yourself in the frame is to play in those games that have several girls who could be good enough. I'm sure we'd all like The FA to spend lots more money sending people all over the country to look at "missed individuals" but realistically they invest this money in the RTCs and hope that they are far-sighted enough to attract the local talent themselves.
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: croc on October 26, 2018, 12:07:25 PM
Think it depends on the county schools FA, got a feeling it's u14 but definitely u16 though some don't enter.  My county haven't this year which is a shame as I coach two players who would have really deserved the chance to play with and against RTC players.   
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: dirkvanadidas on November 04, 2018, 11:44:29 AM
old regime (TD) at rtc wouldnt allow players to play county, one did and was out of the system until regime change.
Funnily enough she is currently a  better player than the 2 england players., very composed and will rarely  play a long diagonal into the channel (hit and hope).
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: Proudmum on November 04, 2018, 03:32:13 PM
 County start from under 14 for girls. my daughter didn't trial for county as she is in an RTC and the matches are generally the Saturday and her matches for RTC'S are the Saturday! Was mentioned about Surrey not having RTC girls and Chelsea RTC being on the doorstep. A lot of RTC players travel to get to the RTC and the county they play for would be where they attend school regardless of where you live. Not sure if there is more but we know one Chelsea player in Berkshire County Team, 2 Reading in Middlesex one and one in Berkshire
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: mikeyfaz on November 07, 2018, 10:34:47 AM
Is u14 based on school year. Or is it aligned to calendar year.
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: Proudmum on November 24, 2018, 10:55:39 PM
Under 14 is year 8 and year 9
Title: Re: County Squads and RTC's
Post by: Richhutcho on November 25, 2018, 08:12:22 AM
How does the u14s currently work

I’ve noticed sometimes there’s a few weeks inbetween fixtures on fa full time for our older age groups

Is there no league in the first phase of the season?