Womens Football Forum

Women's Football => Women's Football => Topic started by: idh1 on September 22, 2008, 11:04:50 AM

Title: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on September 22, 2008, 11:04:50 AM
The following article was in The Observer on Sunday:

"The FA are set to announce the biggest development in women's football since it took over the running of the game 15 years ago, with central contracts for top England players, a new 'Superleague' of eight teams to start in March 2010 and the appointment of a full-time performance director.

With new professional leagues soon to start in the United States and Australia, following the launch of an elite competition in Holland, there is a threat of top players leaving England to play abroad. The FA's new plans are expected to be approved at a board meeting this week.

The FA are giving serious consideration to creating a model similar to the draft system used in the United States, where the best players are shared between the teams. The move would prevent the situation that currently exists where Arsenal and Chelsea are streets ahead of everyone else. Also under the new proposals, the top England players would be put on central contracts worth £16,000 a year, a landmark development as many players currently pay for the privilege of joining teams. Hope Powell, the England manager, welcomed the proposals as a vital move towards challenging the world's best.

'We have been playing catch-up with the likes of Germany and the US,' she says, 'and now associations like Holland and Australia are investing in their women's game, too. The proposals will help take the game to the next level, as well as keeping our talented players in England.'

Genesis, a strategic management consultancy who previously worked on regenerating rugby league and women's netball, were commissioned by the FA to devise the plans. One of their biggest challenges is making the women's game commercially viable. Most matches are watched by a few hundred supporters, but this year's FA Cup final in May was attended by a crowd of 24,582 and this season's two league games between Arsenal and Chelsea will be played at the Emirates and Stamford Bridge for the first time. The FA hope to convince board members that funding the scheme with an initial £1m-£2m will create a competitive league and a world-class national team.

The board are expected to make a decision on Thursday. Three days later England take on the Czech Republic, and the week afterwards they play in Spain. Both games will be shown live on Setanta."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/sep/21/1

OK, why am I twitchy about this?  The FA investing in women's football? About time. £16,000?  Not exactly splashing out. While any money given to the top players is to be welcomed, £16,000 is miserly. Finance the girls properly.

£1m - £2m investment in the league. Thank you. Once more, about time. How long have we been waiting for the  FA to stop spilling port down their blazers and open their eyes?

We're courting TV money here, which can only be good for the game. But let's not forget when Fulham went pro, the FA and ITV were supposed to back Al Fayed with a televised, financed league. They chose not to.

Am I happy with a league of eight?  Not really.

Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton, Leeds Carnegie and - er, who?  Bristol Academy and Blackburn on the periphery perhaps, Maybe Donnie if they can get the financial backing they so desperately need.

What about relegation/promotion?  Is there any? If so, will we get promoted clubs going down and the relegated clubs coming back up, year in, year out.

And while I concede the need for a more open league title race, draft picks?  Like the Ting-Tings said: "I'm the last chick standing up against the wall."

I'd rather see the natural progression of retirements and new blood from youth teams, plus transfers, like any other sport. The wheel is constantly turning, you're up, you're down. Kelly Smith won't be playing forever. Plus, to be pedantic, there's probably some law governing freedom of choice and movement somewhere in the Human Rights Act.

Let's see the FA invest heavily in the clubs. Say a sizeable grant to each club at the beginning of the season. Certainly to step two. How they choose to spend it is up to them. Players, player's wages, training, whatever. Then let's see what happens.

And yes, cut a deal with TV. But is there much difference between a league of eight and twelve?  A relegation decider is still going to be blood and thunder whether it's say, Donnie v Blackburn or Nottingham Forest v WFC Fulham. (Examples only guys. Don't shoot me!)

You may not agree with any of these ramblings - mine or the FA's.  This is a stream of consciousness, rather then a well-researched piece. What I'm after is a healthy debate. Is this the way to go? What's the best way to push the game forward?  It's our sport too.


Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on September 22, 2008, 11:33:10 AM
its already had a long debate on other pages here.......dont think ,most are for it, although it has merits and pitfalls..
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on September 22, 2008, 11:44:20 AM
Yeah, I know it's been a topic of conversation for a while, but as we're getting close to a decision, I didn't think it'd hurt posting the article, particularly for newer members.

Plus I can't say I've noticed much media coverage of women's netball since Genesis' intervention.

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on September 22, 2008, 11:52:29 AM
I am looking forward to see the selection criteria for the "top players" and the 8 teams because there will be a lot of disappointment for the teams and players who miss out.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on September 22, 2008, 12:25:42 PM
No fans or real people involved in any of this idea.... thats the problem.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on September 22, 2008, 12:46:30 PM
Maybe that's why they did that, they don't want that kind of people involved  ???
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on September 22, 2008, 12:56:26 PM
well, maybe..those kinds of people wont go watch the so called elite super 8 :(
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on September 22, 2008, 01:30:46 PM
If the tv money is good, the FA won't care as its product will generate revenue.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on September 22, 2008, 02:32:08 PM
yeah but do they want the matches to be played in front of no fans...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on September 22, 2008, 02:56:43 PM
I think the players are important for the FA not the fans...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on September 22, 2008, 04:00:50 PM
I think the players are important for the FA not the fans...

Well if they have no fans then what are they doing it for, games look awful when they only have a few folk at them, if they worked on getting more people to games then maybe they wouldn't had have situations like Doncaster and Charlton....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Rob on September 22, 2008, 09:14:20 PM
The move would prevent the situation that currently exists where Arsenal and Chelsea are streets ahead of everyone else.
Chelsea? When did Chelsea become streets ahead of everyone else? They're 6 games in to a season with some very good new players so they'll be challenging Everton for 2nd place but even that has yet to be seen.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on September 22, 2008, 09:19:43 PM
Arsenal Chelsea and Everton are ahead  other teams by a mile or two. Chelsea had fitness defending and scoring problems last season but they solved that this summer.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on September 22, 2008, 09:39:22 PM
Can anyone explain what this bit means?

Quote
where the best players are shared between the teams
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Bonnie Lass on September 23, 2008, 12:41:05 AM
I'm sure they meant that the teams will have an equal share of top players, so that one team doesn't get half of England's NT, etc. Kind of like what the WPS is doing now, allocating the best players accordingly.

I seriously doubt players will truly be 'shared' by the teams. :D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on September 23, 2008, 01:56:08 AM
I'm sure they meant that the teams will have an equal share of top players, so that one team doesn't get half of England's NT, etc. Kind of like what the WPS is doing now, allocating the best players accordingly.

I seriously doubt players will truly be 'shared' by the teams. :D


Sorry still dont get it... no idea what the WPS is doing....  How can they share players... A lot of teams sign players that live near enough to go to training... If it means players being made to play for other teams ...well thats unworkable.. or is it summat else... anyone?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on September 23, 2008, 07:24:44 AM
Basically the FA could decide who plays where as it suits them after players request and team request.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on September 23, 2008, 09:25:30 AM
does that happen in any other sport?..what are they trying to mirror?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on September 23, 2008, 09:47:58 AM
It's a very American idea. Most notably in American football - the gridiron variety.

The worst performing side got first pick of the best college graduates.

The WPS draft model works differently, I believe, although 'works' may be a misnomer.

This from a WPS site: "Twenty-one players, many from the Olympic gold medal-winning U.S. national women's team, were assigned to the seven WPS teams on September 15. Players include such stars as Abby Wambach, Hope Solo, Heather Mitts and Carli Lloyd.

Each team received three players, with consideration given for players' current homes and the former WUSA teams for which they played.

A draft that will put two top international stars on each team will take place at the end of September. A general draft of other U.S. and international players will take place October 15 through the beginning of 2009."

Yeah. Good luck with that in England.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on September 23, 2008, 10:13:19 AM
You have the same draft system in NBA. The Bulls got hold of MJ this way when they were simply rubbish back in the 80's. 
Seriously for the FA to choose the team the players will play with  :o
Especially for those who dislike each other  ;)
I can see a big cock up coming there if not managed properly  ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on September 23, 2008, 10:15:51 AM
lets keep it clean Shlj........btw, did ya find out about Bird being kegged yet? ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Oldship30 on September 23, 2008, 10:54:30 AM

...Three days later England take on the Czech Republic, and the week afterwards they play in Spain. Both games will be shown live on Setanta."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/sep/21/1


Where did they get this info from? I can't see it anywhere on Setantas' TV listings!
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on September 23, 2008, 11:35:58 AM
True. Nothing on Setanta at all.

On the other hand, the FA's site says: "You can watch England's penultimate Euro 2009 qualifier against Czech Republic live on Setanta Sports 2 this Sunday from 12.55pm."

So, will Setanta show Ajax vs. Vitesse - as currently listed - or England?  And if they do, will it be Freeview?

Place your bets.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on September 23, 2008, 11:40:30 AM
My bet is on Ajax vs Vitesse and the England game at 2 am when they have no other program to show.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: redrobin on September 23, 2008, 01:30:35 PM
I still think that this summer Elite League, allegedly to be on Thursday evenings to catch a possible TV slot, with just 8 clubs divorced from the rest of the women's football pyramid by season and by structure, is going to be a huge mistake.

If the money said to be available were to be channelled towards the top 36 clubs who have risen to the top of the national pyramid it would make an enormous difference to the way they can operate.

If the higher level of £2m is assumed, an allocation which perhaps rewarded the National Division sides more than the regional teams and was backed up with reasonable prize money for success in the two Cup competitions would be consistent with the way that the men's game is treated.

In that way, it would become far easier to develop minimum standards for clubs in the competition. Combined with the separate arrangements for funding Centres of Excellence, the whole development of the game might become more stable.

The solution in Holland had a very different starting point. The Dutch FA had an under achieving national team in their view and an amateur league with no real status. They chose to work, organisationally and financially, with 8 selected senior men's clubs to develop a women's semi-professional league. To their credit, it seems to be working, viewed from this side of the North Sea. Working with the top men's clubs certainly seems to have helped gain good attendances (possibly through double-header games??). How the grass roots side works with their new league will be an important element as well though and I don't know how that's organised.

All I do know is that if Chelsea were to be told that they can only keep John Terry and Frank Lampard and that their other England internationals were being reassigned to Stoke, Hull and Fulham everyone would be saying the idea had a few flaws.

We can't create a mass of new stadiums and home grounds for women's football - even the majority of men's sides in the pyramid are struggling to maintain the infrastructure - so separate development of the game is a non-starter.  Far better to explore the belief that Football in the Community applies to both sexes and aim to encourage development of women's football within the existing club structures or through strengthened alliances with the host non-league sides.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on September 23, 2008, 07:09:15 PM
Well thats me finished with going to games.  There is no way I could go manage along on a Thursday evening, and I'm not the only person that travels down to games from here.  I was hoping they would have it on a Saturday afternoon then I could take the train down and up quite easily instead of the magical mystery bus tours I'm doing at the moment....Also looks like four teams fighting it out for relegation instead of the usual two with the rest in a desperate struggle to be in the top eight...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on September 23, 2008, 07:21:17 PM
We don't of course know when the games will be played. I think you might be a little premature in assuming that all games will be played on a Thursday. Yes, if a TV deal is involved then some televised games may be slotted there for obvious reasons.

But many other leagues that are televised such as Rugby's Super League or the Blue Square Premiership have games televised during the week, but still play other fixtures at traditional times at the weekend. Basically wait for the information from the study.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on September 24, 2008, 09:37:57 AM
The Czech Republic v England game is now confirmed on Setanta's TV listings. 12.55pm on Setanta Sports 2 on Sunday 28th.

Yet again, the power of the Womens Football Forum shakes the towers of the mighty.

Trouble is, can't tell if it's Freeview or not.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on September 24, 2008, 12:13:48 PM
I suppose just have to wait and see how they organise things....or not as the case may be...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Oldship30 on September 24, 2008, 02:10:17 PM
The Czech Republic v England game is now confirmed on Setanta's TV listings. 12.55pm on Setanta Sports 2 on Sunday 28th.

Sky haven't changed it on their listings yet so can't set the Sky+  :(
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on September 24, 2008, 07:51:51 PM
The Czech Republic v England game is now confirmed on Setanta's TV listings. 12.55pm on Setanta Sports 2 on Sunday 28th.

Sky haven't changed it on their listings yet so can't set the Sky+  :(

Just have to be old fashioned and video it...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Oldship30 on September 24, 2008, 09:26:06 PM
Just have to be old fashioned and video it...

Sky have finally changed their schedule so Sky+ okay.  :)

Video :o I'd have to go into the loft and see if I still have a recorder, find a tape that hasn't perished, remember how to us it... I'm flying on Saturday not sure I'd get it set up in time  ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Bonnie Lass on September 25, 2008, 04:37:56 AM
Oh, wow. I'm sorry KIPAX. I should have explained it more.

I didn't know it was such an American concept.  :-\

But yes, it is an odd idea. I imagine the league will be able to work around location and player preferences, but it seems like they're trying to ensure one team doesn't get all the talent.

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on September 25, 2008, 10:03:23 AM
I think thats totally unworkable in this country unless there being offered loads of money to relocate and even then i dont see why anyone would move or travel.. more likely to put players off playing IMHO ... probably the single most stupid idea I ahve heard of.. thats like relying on no club loyalty instead of encouraging it.

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on September 25, 2008, 10:12:22 AM
Also what strikes me is the difference between the WPS and the "Superleague". One of those does everything in the open, is media friendly with plenty of updates and the other one is prepared in the shadows with no information provided and transparency. Seems to me like a business plan that has been rushed a destiny like the WUSA on the card ?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Bonnie Lass on September 26, 2008, 05:24:03 AM
Perhaps. But one of the reasons WPS has been so open is because they're looking for support, sponsors, etc. A way of telling people they won't end up like the WUSA. For the most part, the WUSA was very open and just as media friendly. The only thing there weren't open about was how much money they were hemorrhaging. They even announced player salaries, sponsorship deals, etc.

The international player thing is going to get VERY interesting very soon. Word has it Arsenal was not pleased with Smith and Carney's names on that list and will be releasing a statement soon. And today, they announced other UK folks in the extended list of player signing rights including Emm Byrne, Alex Scott and Eniola Aluko.

Perhaps working in the shadows has its benefits?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Alan on September 26, 2008, 10:30:28 AM
If they don't give Emma Byrne an offer they will be missing a trick - she is a fantastic keeper and seeing her in the UEFA Cup Final last year standing up to Marta, Ramona Bachmann and Madeleine Edlund, and keeping them out for 180 minutes, was truly inspiring.  At the end they threw everything at her in their desperation and she was equal to it.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on September 26, 2008, 11:28:50 AM
This from the BBC website yesterday evening, slightly abridged from the FA's report at http://www.thefa.com/Womens/PremierLeague/NewsAndFeatures/Postings/2008/09/FAWPL_BoardBacking.htm:

"A new women's Super League is to run over the summer months from 2010.

The Football Association will invite clubs to apply for membership of the league, with the lower tiers continuing to play between August to May.

The FA has also given the green light to central contracts for England players to help them financially.

FA chairman Lord Triesman said: "It's good news England's biggest female participation sport will achieve maybe the biggest boost in its history."

To further help the development of the women's game, the FA has backed the proposal to appoint a women's performance manager.

"The new Super League will provide a concentrated, high-quality competition, and during the summer months give the game an exposure when there is no other top-flight football being played," said England women's coach Hope Powell.

"I also hope that it will prevent our best players from joining the women's professional soccer organisation in the USA.

"I am very confident that the new performance unit and central contracts will help us raise the bar further at the elite level and build upon recent successes.

"Our teams will now arrive at tournaments in early or mid-season, rather than at the end of a long nine to 10 months, as was the case at Euro 2005 and in last September's FIFA World Cup in China."
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on September 26, 2008, 03:02:36 PM
Cricket it is for me from now then on.... :(
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on September 26, 2008, 03:13:03 PM
Cricket it is for me from now then on.... :(
That's not a sport lol sorry easy joke ! We'll see what happens anyway and how it shapes up. I am curious to see the list of elite players.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on September 26, 2008, 03:14:28 PM
lol...dont care who the players are...I dont do summer football......nice as it is to bask in the sunshine at Meadowpark.........it will alawys be a winter sport....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on September 26, 2008, 03:30:27 PM
Cricket for me as well.   not keen on it but I do it for the newspapers over summer..

As I said in another thread.. do the fa think we sit around all summer doing nothing?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on September 26, 2008, 03:34:09 PM
..obviously... :(
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on September 26, 2008, 03:40:53 PM
I think I may be in South Africa in 2010, saying that if Capello does not qualify supporters will stay in England to watch the womens footie  ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on September 26, 2008, 03:51:42 PM
if England dont qualify, the women can represent the men in future.........probabaly win it... ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on September 26, 2008, 06:34:14 PM
When I interviewed Shaun Gore for Fair Game, we touched upon a summer league.

Many players aren't in favour. After all, they like their summer holidays too.

Plus, I can't count the number of times I've opened up my knee after a ill-advised slide tackle or twisted my ankle on sun-baked, rock-hard, rutted pitches. What's it going to be like for the girls in competitive matches after a men's season on the same pitch?

I also like: "The Football Association will invite clubs to apply for membership of the league." Wonder what would happen if the clubs don't, or only some do?

Plenty still to come I think.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on September 26, 2008, 07:20:15 PM
There is the quation of where they are going to play with football clubs using the summer to relay pitches... they cant be used all year round..

The more I read the more I wonder if they thought this out properly :)


As for invites.. Well i dont think they will struggle there. .. ... even clubs that hate the idea of the new league  will be doing there best to get into it. As has been proved on these very forums.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on September 26, 2008, 08:37:45 PM
I have a hunch that alot of clubs will do so without most of their fans...I mean, Ken would have to stop wearing his red jacket and baseball cap at every match.......
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on September 26, 2008, 09:05:04 PM
When I interviewed Shaun Gore for Fair Game, we touched upon a summer league.

Many players aren't in favour. After all, they like their summer holidays too.

Plus, I can't count the number of times I've opened up my knee after a ill-advised slide tackle or twisted my ankle on sun-baked, rock-hard, rutted pitches. What's it going to be like for the girls in competitive matches after a men's season on the same pitch?

I also like: "The Football Association will invite clubs to apply for membership of the league." Wonder what would happen if the clubs don't, or only some do?

Plenty still to come I think.

I spoke with a player about it a couple of months ago and she seemed happy with it.
Regarding membership, I am sure most national division teams will apply. It's a guaranteed jackpot and survival for a few years without trouble that is sold.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: pat51 on September 26, 2008, 09:48:15 PM
No mention yet of the sum of money which was talked about as a requirement for entry to this Superleague...wonder if some clubs might be prevented from applying if this does exist...difficult to see Doncaster Rovers Belles being able to apply if the stipulation is there.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on September 26, 2008, 10:30:10 PM
8 Super League teams..playing during the summer....where? Are the FA gonna finance 8 new stadiums.....all league and non-league clubs re-seed stadium and training ground pitches during the summer.   

Will the winter league continue for the Northern and Southern League teams.....?

Will the Super League 8 be allowed to enter the FA CUP or UEFA Cup assuming that these are to be played in the 'off-season' ?

With only 14 fixtures a season whats the point... how many players would only want to play 14 games a season? 

How many players would welcome a Central Contract player to the club getting £16K when they get £30 quid a week or zilch.

If a club doesn't make the final Super 8 will the parent club bother funding a women's team, if they can never play at top level...Clubs outside the Super 8 will close due to lack of funding. 

Have a Summer League by all means....along side the current schedule....but try finding a pitch to play on..
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on September 26, 2008, 10:56:04 PM
According to today's Times (as I said in another thread) the FA will be putting in £5m over 4 years.
It didn't explain where it will go though.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on September 27, 2008, 07:15:00 PM
I've no intention of giving my view on all the points in here, but just to pick up on a couple with my own thoughts.

No mention yet of the sum of money which was talked about as a requirement for entry to this Superleague...wonder if some clubs might be prevented from applying if this does exist...difficult to see Doncaster Rovers Belles being able to apply if the stipulation is there.

There is of course also the possibility that the new league might entice more men's clubs, with their wealth, resources, facilities, rivalry and strong community links to join the league. I guess that the couple of hundred thousand pounds mentioned already would be relative peanuts to them.

8 Super League teams..playing during the summer....where? Are the FA gonna finance 8 new stadiums.....all league and non-league clubs re-seed stadium and training ground pitches during the summer.  

We have touched upon this already... many grounds are already used throughout the year. Wigan Athletic and Hull play football during the winter, and Rugby is played there during the summer. There are other examples too. So I don't envisage a major issue there. I very much doubt that the FA will be financing new stadia.

If a club doesn't make the final Super 8 will the parent club bother funding a women's team, if they can never play at top level...Clubs outside the Super 8 will close due to lack of funding. 

If the league succeeds I would envisage it being increased at some point, which would of course provide opportunities for others to join. I see the eight teams being chosen primarily to make the league more competitive and probably to reduce the financial requirements and hence risk. i.e. think small in the short term.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: pat51 on September 27, 2008, 08:07:40 PM
Thanks for that thought, BB ...I had not thought of the possibility of mens clubs taking this on board perhaps as a new initiative. This franchise idea does allow totally new clubs to start up like they did in the Netherlands. I suppose we could even have link ups between already established womens clubs and mens teams which have ignored or abandoned womens football in the past but now fancy being part of a Superleague like Man U , Sunderland, Fulham, Man City.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on September 30, 2008, 01:57:21 AM
If the league is going to consist of 8 teams, and the same 8 teams for 3 years (which I'd heard it was going to be), is it going to be any use to fans?

I'm an Arsenal fan, and if they keep the top 8 teams, I assume Arsenal will be there.

But - as Pat knows, I went to to a game in a small league with 8 teams yesterday.

I identified with one team, for my own personal reasons.

I hope the Super league doesn't mess up with my identifying with a team.

Imagine a Liverpool franchise, for instance.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on September 30, 2008, 09:40:08 AM
maybe a Merseyside franchise ...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on September 30, 2008, 09:09:42 PM
...if Faye's notes in tonights  Arsenal - Porto programme are to go by, she seems all in favour of the new super duper all singing all dancing, but hardly anyone watching proposed summer elite super league.......I'm still a fan, but surprised by that tbh............guess she might be coming to the end of her illustrous career shortly, she might think differently about playing in an 8 team no up no down league if she was 20 ish.....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on October 01, 2008, 01:36:30 AM
maybe a Merseyside franchise ...
There is no hatred (generally) between teams in Merseyside, but people support one or the other (I'm not including Tranmere, as they're the other side of the river).
OK - I'm talking men's here - but most are not happy about the possibility of a groundshare.

A teamshare?!!!!

No chance
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on October 01, 2008, 08:04:31 AM
We don't know what the FA will do lol
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on October 01, 2008, 12:46:13 PM
...if Faye's notes in tonights  Arsenal - Porto programme are to go by, she seems all in favour of the new super duper all singing all dancing, but hardly anyone watching proposed summer elite super league.......I'm still a fan, but surprised by that tbh............guess she might be coming to the end of her illustrous career shortly, she might think differently about playing in an 8 team no up no down league if she was 20 ish.....
How do you know her programme notes?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on October 01, 2008, 12:50:26 PM
surprisingly.....I can read.. ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on October 01, 2008, 03:26:13 PM
What I meant was they haven't posted articles from the matchday programme online so as you don't follow the men's team I was surprised you had an idea of the contents of her latest programme notes
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on October 01, 2008, 03:50:40 PM
well, Holmes.....I picked up a copy of the match programme on my way out of a tube station last night......like to tell me which one..? ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on October 01, 2008, 04:22:52 PM
The programmes are available near 3 of the local tube stations  ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on October 01, 2008, 04:32:43 PM
Seven sisters  ;D oops they don't do Champions league  ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on October 01, 2008, 04:45:03 PM
trust you to chose the wrong one Shlj........ ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on October 01, 2008, 04:52:30 PM
I have been to WHL actually and even walked alongside the pitch during a game as we were escorted to the VIP boxes when we battered England in a U21 game.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on October 01, 2008, 10:36:30 PM
VIP?  :o

I must bow when I see you on Sunday ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on October 03, 2008, 12:34:14 PM
Back on subject for a moment... I had a horrible thought...  Theres another problem with playing in summer ... We already know grounds is going to be hard to work out BUT I am pretty sure they must have thought about this already and come up with a plan... Now add what hapened at the umbro tournament.. its summer.. the pitches are rock hard and a danger to players..  I know we dont always have brilliant summers but the league is a summer league.

I think the only answer they could come up with (pitches not fit or being re layed, pitched too hard in summer)  is to play the whole league on artificial/g3 pitches.. If I where a bettting man I would put a quid on that being the plan.. its the only one that gets past the problems.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on October 03, 2008, 12:39:32 PM
Wow, I have never thought of that one, that would be weird.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on October 03, 2008, 12:54:22 PM
I play twice a week on 3g pitches ( close to where the Arsenal ladies train ) and none of my players would want to play regular 11 a side matches on them.....too many injuries involving twisted ankles etc...

its a non starter :(
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: marko1301 on October 03, 2008, 01:15:35 PM
Id heard from a reliable source that all participants in the league had to have access to g3 pitches.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on October 03, 2008, 01:18:20 PM
not many stadiums have them laid, so maybe the plan is to play at sports centres..
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on October 03, 2008, 01:22:23 PM
Id heard from a reliable source that all participants in the league had to have access to g3 pitches.

OMG I could be right... not only a summer league but played on g3 .... sigh what next :(
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on October 03, 2008, 02:19:32 PM
Id heard from a reliable source that all participants in the league had to have access to g3 pitches.

OMG I could be right... not only a summer league but played on g3 .... sigh what next :(
Are they trying to copy Nordics league to the extreme ?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on October 03, 2008, 03:15:04 PM
cricket is looking more attractive every day.. ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on October 03, 2008, 04:34:09 PM
I don't understand why you seem to think that football cannot be played in the summer on grass. The Premiership plays during August, and major tournaments have been played during June. Aren't those months summer any more? I thought the hosepipe and sprinkler had already been invented?

With all this talk of hard pitches in the summer and the dangers they represent, I suppose that the world cup in South Africa in 2010 will be a health and safety disaster.  ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on October 03, 2008, 05:22:14 PM
I don't understand why you seem to think that football cannot be played in the summer on grass.

Well its been documented anough times... but here we go again then :)  because thats when clubs do ther re seeding or relaying the pitch,... thats when pitches recover in time for the next football season...., if the pitch is playing on all year round every year it wont last.



Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on October 03, 2008, 06:43:30 PM
I don't understand why you seem to think that football cannot be played in the summer on grass.

Well its been documented anough times... but here we go again then :)  because thats when clubs do ther re seeding or relaying the pitch,... thats when pitches recover in time for the next football season...., if the pitch is playing on all year round every year it wont last.

Well I'm not sure if you missed it but... a number pitches are used throughout the year already. So that argument doesn't seem to hold water in my eyes. Wigan and Hull in the Premiership are examples as they are used in the summer for rugby too... and there are two grounds within fifteen minutes drive of where I live that are used all year round... rugby in the summer and reserves football in the winter.

Yes, it has to be organised, but it does happen. So I tend to stay away from absolute statements about what can and cannot be done with regards to grounds.  ;D But don't let me stop you...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on October 03, 2008, 06:53:01 PM
The girls play at marine and skem.. not wigan and huddersfield.. thats two practically brand new stadiums.. my argument stands.. these pitches need sorting in the summer and cant be played on.. 
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on October 03, 2008, 07:03:15 PM
The girls play at marine and skem.. not wigan and huddersfield.. thats two practically brand new stadiums.. my argument stands.. these pitches need sorting in the summer and cant be played on.. 

Dream on... it would be a lot easier if you just accepted that grounds can be used for most of the year, and there doesn't seem to be any reason why something similar cannot happen for women's football. None of us know where these summer games will be played... it might be nowhere near Marine or Skelmersdale.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: redrobin on October 03, 2008, 07:35:19 PM
Well said Kipax - I doubt whether there's a single club in the Ryman, Southern or Unibond which would change their maintenance regime.

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on October 03, 2008, 07:37:13 PM
I think the main issue with pitches would be that they'd be either too hard or too soft or underwater altogether depending on what kind of summer we get...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on October 03, 2008, 07:44:11 PM
Dream on... it would be a lot easier if you just accepted that grounds can be used for most of the year,

but they cant.  the two you mention are newish premier grounds with all manner of undersoil drainage heating or whatever... with the best will in the world there not going to play these games at 30-40 thousand seater stadiums...  Current stadiums used simply cannot be used all year around... it really is that simple..  however artificial ones is a different story.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on October 03, 2008, 09:47:23 PM
You're just digging a bigger hole for yourself...

Warrington RLFC and Widnes RFLC both have a basic pitch with good facilities surrounding it. Yet both are used through the summer for rugby and are used in the winter for the men's reserves of Liverpool and Everton. How do I know? Simple I go there.

Belle Vue, Wakefield's ground, which is very old and will probably have to be closed soon has been used for rugby and Leeds' reserves in football. I'm sure there are more and there is nothing particularly special about those grounds.

And I will repeat again, nobody on here as far as I am aware knows where the games will be played so any reference to Marine is sadly, from your point of view, largely irrelevant. I am merely underlining the principle that grounds can be used around the year with adequate planning. As is highlighted by the examples I have given you.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Bluesfan on October 06, 2008, 05:08:57 PM
Anybody heard what came out about the new Superleague proposals at the meeting between the clubs and the FA on Saturday October 4th?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: pat51 on October 06, 2008, 05:35:51 PM
Tony Leighton in the Guardian mentioned that the 25 centrally contracted players would NOT be spread around the 8 franchises and gave reaction from Bristol Academy manager Gary Green - annoyed - and Vic Akers - pleased !
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on October 06, 2008, 05:45:46 PM
25 only  :o You just hope they will get the name right because if someone is a better player than one of those 25 , will they get a game with England ??
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on October 06, 2008, 06:12:27 PM
I was imagining around 30 actually, there isn't much room for injuries etc with 25. I can't remember how many of the Norwegian players are paid by their FA to spend time training, but I don't think it is a huge number.

I wonder how often they will re-new the contracts, it may well be every year.

Tony Leighton in the Guardian mentioned that the 25 centrally contracted players would NOT be spread around the 8 franchises and gave reaction from Bristol Academy manager Gary Green - annoyed - and Vic Akers - pleased !

I suppose they would have been completely powerless in moving the Scottish, Irish players etc anyway, so it would never have been a completely level playing field.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Rach_83 on October 06, 2008, 06:32:14 PM
from the guardian website

The Football Association's claim that the summer Super League will be more competitive than the Premier League has been strongly contested following the revelation, during a meeting of clubs at Aston Villa on Saturday, that the 25 England players who will be granted central contracts will not, as previously thought, be spread around the Super League's eight clubs but will be allowed to stay with their current teams.

Gary Green, the Bristol Academy manager, said: "Arsenal, Everton and Chelsea will keep their internationals and although the league will be cut down from 12 clubs it will be just as dominated by Arsenal. It won't be a level playing field and I know that if my club isn't in the Super League then I'll lose my best players to one or more of the teams who are."

Arsenal, who beat Everton 3-1 in their cup game, took the opposite stance. Vic Akers, the manager, said: "Players don't want to be told where to go and play and having a draft, like in the American league, would have been the wrong way to go."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/oct/06/womensfootball (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/oct/06/womensfootball)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on October 06, 2008, 06:50:23 PM
Well said Kipax - I doubt whether there's a single club in the Ryman, Southern or Unibond which would change their maintenance regime.

Sorry, I hadn't realised that you were joining in.

Leigh Genesis FC who play in the Unibond league have shared Hilton Park (25 mins from where I live) with Leigh Centurions. The ground is very basic, but is considered a multi-use community stadium to be shared and is thus used throughout the year.

Who knows if other clubs would change their routines, if they need the cash then they might consider the idea. Seems a bit rash to rule it out IMO.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on October 06, 2008, 08:38:37 PM
Excuse me for sticking my oar in.

This was posted elsewhere on this site by Gooner and comes from Vic Aker's programme notes:

"There will be many obstacles to overcome.... Items on the agenda to move things forward will include facilities - where will the elite clubs play (non-league clubs will be very reluctant to lease their grounds during the summer months), timing of winter cups (eg; FA Cup, League Cup, UEFA Cup ?) and who will qualify (club, businesses, Universities ?) for this new proposed league."

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: redrobin on October 06, 2008, 10:35:55 PM
Top women lured to States as English game is left behind'

Victorian' approach of FA is slammed as new league is launched in US

Anna Kessel The Observer, Sunday October 5 2008

Tomorrow evening in America, women's football fans will sit down in front of their television screens to watch the draft for the new Women's Professional Soccer league, followed by a live phone-in and discussion on Fox Sports.

It is a scenario that women's football fans in this country can only dream of. In England it is still a major coup to be able to watch live games on TV, let alone football discussion shows at prime time. The difference will be more marked still when the US launch their revamped professional league in April, having targeted some of the best players in the world - including two-time Fifa world player of the year Brazil forward Marta - and England stars Kelly Smith and Karen Carney.

With the FA's announcement of plans for a summer Super League to be launched in 2010, including central contracts for England players, and Hope Powell's England side qualifying for the European Championships last week, it is a buoyant time for the women's game. But compared with what is going on around the world, is enough really being done to elevate women's football in England?

Already Sweden's most successful team, Umea IK, pay professional wages to 75 per cent of their players and rival men's teams in terms of their TV coverage, many of Germany's players have semi-professional status, Holland's new league is tied to and funded by the men's Eredivisie so that women footballers have their playing expenses covered, and Australia's new W-League is fully professional. English domestic football could end up playing a frustrating game of catch up.

Sue Tibballs, chief executive of the Women's Sport and Fitness Foundation, is measured in her assessment. 'What the FA are proposing is a great first step, but it's a cautious one. They could actually take a few big strides, and then you'd suddenly see the thing taking off.'

At the newly franchised Chicago Red Stars, head coach Emma Hayes - former assistant coach at Arsenal ladies - is frustrated by the gulf in ambition between US and English football. She says the English approach to developing the game is 'Victorian'.

'Working in women's sport in England is so hard, it's draconian,' says Hayes, who reluctantly left Arsenal at the end of last season fearing a dead end in the domestic game. 'Arsenal is my club and I love it more than anything else, it's in my blood, but I want to be the best coach in the world and that's why I came here. This country loves women's football. Loves it.'

While Hayes welcomes the FA's announcement, she is concerned the proposals will not do enough. 'If we're going to do it let's do it properly with long-term intentions and not just knee-jerk reactions to a few players being targeted by another league. I hope the FA get their act together. They have enough money to do it, they just don't want to consider financing it.'

The current proposals will cost an estimated £1m-£2m a year including central contracts at around £16,000 per player, although this last figure is unconfirmed by the FA. It is a modest outlay for an organisation with an annual turnover nearing £240m and a pittance compared with WPS budgets of around £1.5m per club, plus the added benefit of sharing facilities and costs with Major League Soccer clubs.

The introduction of salaries for England players is a huge development - with many top footballers currently paying to play - but Hayes says it falls short. 'Yes it's great they're supporting national team players but is it really viable? Why would [England footballer] Rachel Yankey give up her business interests [coaching schools] for £16,000? And what about the other players who won't be paid?'

The salaries are part of an incentive to keep young talent in the game as well as preventing England's best players from being lured Stateside. The words 'danger' and 'threat' have been on everybody's lips after WPS approaches, and when Kelly Smith admitted being open to a return to America - she played for Philadelphia Charge in 2001 under the previous WPS incarnation - feathers were ruffled.

But Hayes believes the focus is all wrong. 'Their initial reaction is they don't want to lose players, but it's great that women footballers are in positions of choice, it's improving the game worldwide. That should be the bigger picture. You can't have a stranglehold on players.'

WPS commissioner Tonya Antonucci says she expects English football fans will be 'delighted' to see their players competing in the new league.

'It's an opportunity to watch great soccer first and foremost, but we're also providing a platform for players to improve their games and to grow the sport as a whole.' Antonucci says the league should act as a 'beacon' for the rest of the world, and could include international club competitions in future.

The global approach seems to have bypassed domestic football here. The English league is not attracting players from outside the British Isles, European footballers don't want to come here, and players outside the EU cannot come because of immigration laws and the non-professional status of clubs. Hayes believes this must change. 'I get approached all the time by quality American footballers who would love to play in England, but we're losing them to Finland and Sweden. We should be challenging that legislation, or finding a way around it.

'I want to come home at some point,' says Hayes, 'I really do. But I'm here to improve my country and I want to learn everything I can before I return. I just wish that same learning intention was adopted back home.'

After a meeting between the FA and women's Premier League clubs yesterday, an FA spokeswoman said: 'This is the start of something really exciting for women's football in England. We have a well-thought-out approach, not a knee-jerk reaction. We have done a lot of research and this is the start of a four-year strategy for women's football.'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/oct/05/womensfootball.ussport
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on October 06, 2008, 10:43:31 PM
Whilst thinking about stadia recently and how they are used, I realised that the Doncaster Keepmoat complex (not 100% sure about the individual pitches) has a part synthetic pitch, which allows football, rugby etc to be played there throughout the year. So they would seem well placed, in terms of playing surfaces, regardless of the requirements. Not heard anyone complain about that complex so far, but there is always time I suppose...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on October 06, 2008, 10:55:11 PM
Not heard anyone complain about that complex so far, but there is always time I suppose...


hmmm
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on October 06, 2008, 11:10:32 PM
I'd like to go to bed soon and there's work tomorrow, but looking at a couple of sections of the Guardian article...

Holland's new league is tied to and funded by the men's Eredivisie so that women footballers have their playing expenses covered, and Australia's new W-League is fully professional. English domestic football could end up playing a frustrating game of catch up.

From what we have heard previously about the W-League with a salary cap of something like $150,000 Aussie dollars, I doubt it is fully professional.

The introduction of salaries for England players is a huge development - with many top footballers currently paying to play - but Hayes says it falls short. 'Yes it's great they're supporting national team players but is it really viable? Why would [England footballer] Rachel Yankey give up her business interests [coaching schools] for £16,000? And what about the other players who won't be paid?'

We of course have no idea what Yankee, or anyone else for that matter, has to do for the £16,000. They may be able to combine both the training requirements and their existing commitments without major disruption to their existing schedules. If all players were paid then the cost of the whole thing would increase greatly. And with crowds currently being mistaken for a bus queue... then it's pretty obvious the FA would just be adding a couple of hundred people to their salary costs with no return. Hardly a good return for their outlay is it.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: redrobin on October 06, 2008, 11:54:41 PM
Not heard anyone complain about that complex so far, but there is always time I suppose...


hmmm

For the fan, it's a pretty rotten experience at Keepmoat Pitch 2 - where the Belles play most of their games. That's not the Belles fault - they are hospitable enough. The trouble is its an athletics track with the action far away (as bad as Fulham's old base at Motspur Park). None of the facilities in the main stadium seem to be available on match days, although the Belles volunteers do try to provide some basic half-time succour.

The Belles seem to be very much a junior partner in the whole operation at Keepmoat although they do get to play occasionally in the main stadium. I suppose the problems (logistics and finance) are the same as Geoff has talked about at Sincil Bank. That's why the best venue for most EPL games at present seems to be through working with a non-league host.
 
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on October 07, 2008, 08:10:12 AM
I don't disagree with what you say about the running track. Being detached from the action is a common dislike about grounds. I suppose if clubs don't have their own facilities they are always likely to come off second best in the arrangements with the dominant partner, and of course it is very unlikely that major refreshment facilities will be open if there are very few people there to buy anything.

That's why the best venue for most EPL games at present seems to be through working with a non-league host.

From what has been said previously... I assume they are the ones that are miles from the city/town centres that have little connection with the teams playing there, and are frequently called off due to the winter weather, which of course contributes to the lack of spectators.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Rach_83 on January 14, 2009, 10:20:06 PM
forgive me if this has been posted elsewhere and i have just missed it, but thought for those that hadn't seen it, the central contracts made for interesting reading (and maybe a possible reason for delays in players moving to the US?)


Summer league to follow central contracts
Tony Leighton - The Guardian, Monday 12 January 2009
 

The creation of a summer league and central contracts for England players have moved a significant step closer with the publication of the Football Association's "Women's and girls' football strategy 2008-12". The two measures have been welcomed by the Sports Minister, Gerry Sutcliffe, though the league concept is opposed by a number of Premier League clubs and the FA has been accused of moving towards central contracts in a knee-jerk bid to dissuade players from joining America's new professional league.

The FA aims to have central contracts in place by the end of this campaign while the summer league is set to start next year. "The Premier League clubs have been involved in consultations about the summer league," said Morag Taylor, the governing body's marketing manager for women's football, "and discussions have been taking place on central contracts for two years. Hope Powell [the national coach] has been liaising with the players and the PFA."

"The summer league," said Sutcliffe, "will provide fresh exposure for the ­women's game and help drive even greater participation at the grass roots."
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on January 14, 2009, 10:44:11 PM
The creation of a summer league and central contracts for England players have moved a significant step closer with the publication of the Football Association's "Women's and girls' football strategy 2008-12". The two measures have been welcomed by the Sports Minister, Gerry Sutcliffe, though the league concept is opposed by a number of Premier League clubs and the FA has been accused of moving towards central contracts in a knee-jerk bid to dissuade players from joining America's new professional league.
The concept is opposed by a number of PL clubs, what a surprise there. I guess a few are upset that they will miss the lucrative league  ??? although they will in the top tier at the end of this season. It is obvious that this League has been created mainly for the benefits of the England team.

I personally really find it annoying that the FA does not show any transparency in the bidding and choosing process.
I bet at the end of the season or even before, the FA will come with a statement like we choose those 8 team because they were the best bids. No explanation etc.
As far as I am concerned this season results will be more or less academic.
In theory, the bottom two teams from the national division could be in the final 8
The winner of the Northern and Southern could end up not being promoted.
The two English clubs qualifying for the Champions League could be relegated and loose their best players to top 8 sides.

Strange situation where promotion or retaining your status as top division team depends on the balance sheet and what happens on the pitch does not affect your chances.

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: boygren on January 15, 2009, 10:43:20 AM
For the fan, it's a pretty rotten experience at Keepmoat Pitch 2 - where the Belles play most of their games. That's not the Belles fault - they are hospitable enough. The trouble is its an athletics track with the action far away (as bad as Fulham's old base at Motspur Park). None of the facilities in the main stadium seem to be available on match days, although the Belles volunteers do try to provide some basic half-time succour.

[/quote]

If the Belles get in to the summer league they will play all of their games in the main stadium at the Keepmoat not on Pitch 2.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on January 16, 2009, 07:01:08 PM
For the fan, it's a pretty rotten experience at Keepmoat Pitch 2 - where the Belles play most of their games. That's not the Belles fault - they are hospitable enough. The trouble is its an athletics track with the action far away (as bad as Fulham's old base at Motspur Park). None of the facilities in the main stadium seem to be available on match days, although the Belles volunteers do try to provide some basic half-time succour.


If the Belles get in to the summer league they will play all of their games in the main stadium at the Keepmoat not on Pitch 2.
[/quote]

If they still exist that is....How ironic it would be if the team that has decent facilities for the new league ends up folding....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on January 16, 2009, 09:58:02 PM
There's just so much we don't know, and, from previous posts, notably from OOH Lincoln chairman Geoff Adams, the people who you think would know things don't know what's going on either.

As Johnny Nash sang: "There are more questions than answers", whereas we want to hear "I can see clearly now" ;)

Title: FA blamed for lack of progress over summer league
Post by: Rach_83 on February 02, 2009, 01:12:41 PM

FA blamed for lack of progress over summer league
Clubs claim they have not been given enough information about the oft-mooted summer league


Tony Leighton - Monday 2 February 2009

The Football Association is dragging its heels over the summer league, whose first season is planned for next year. A meeting at Burton Albion's Pirelli Stadium on Saturday left more questions than answers, according to several of the league's leading lights.

With no sign of a television deal, seen as key to the success of the league, and the distribution of bid papers for the eight available places put back until the end of this month, the Chelsea chairman, Peter Steward, said: "The FA have not moved in four months. What we were told could just as well have been emailed to us." Gemma Donnelly, Blackburn Rovers' secretary, said the clubs had been given insufficient information with which to make a decision about applying for membership of the league.

"We haven't been given the full criteria," said Donnelly, "and until we've got that we can't go to our parent club to ask whether funding will be available."The FA is prepared to provide each club with £70,000 towards the first year's running costs, but that figure will have to be at least matched by the clubs. Among the criteria are 25-player squads with a salary cap, but, said Birmingham City chairman, Steve Shipway,: "We were given no figures. We're still in the dark in so many areas and I left the meeting feeling disillusioned." The FA was unavailable for comment.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/01/womensfootball (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/01/womensfootball)

It sounds like the FA are just creating more confusion than getting any closer to laying out simple plans, might end up more confusing than the US pro league.  :-\
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on February 02, 2009, 04:51:34 PM
That's the first time I've ever heard the words 'salary cap' used with women's football in England.

In some ways I would only expect a potential TV deal to be confirmed much later once the product has been finalised, and that sounds quite a way off yet. Quite simply the information has to be in the bid papers or there won't be any applicants from the clubs etc.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on February 02, 2009, 09:49:04 PM
That's the first time I've ever heard the words 'salary cap' used with women's football in England.

In some ways I would only expect a potential TV deal to be confirmed much later once the product has been finalised, and that sounds quite a way off yet. Quite simply the information has to be in the bid papers or there won't be any applicants from the clubs etc.
'Salary cap' is not used in the normal context - it just means they get a minimum of nothing ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on February 03, 2009, 10:04:06 AM
I am just amazed they are thinking of a salary cap that is going the american way  :o
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on February 03, 2009, 08:21:03 PM
I wonder how the idea of a salary cap would work at Arsenal. I always thought a few of them were employed by the club in differing roles, and it seems a bit of grey area whether that would contribute to the cap.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on February 03, 2009, 10:21:44 PM
I wonder how the idea of a salary cap would work at Arsenal. I always thought a few of them were employed by the club in differing roles, and it seems a bit of grey area whether that would contribute to the cap.
Good point!

There have always been ways that various sports have got around things like this - eg, amateur athletes were once allowed to get expenses that were supposed to cover their travel and hotel costs etc, but higher profile amateurs were reckoned to get higher amounts; I vaguely remember some newspaper investigation in the 1960s trying to make a bit of a fuss about this, but were told that a certain athlete received more because he could only find a room in an expensive hotel, and needed a taxi as he missed a train etc. And no receipts were needed of course, so he probably stayed in a B&B and went by train like everyone else.

So, I suppose that say Arsenal players who have jobs in the club laundry for instance could find themselves suddenly being called "senior laundry administrators" or whatever, and get a relatively fat pay packet from that, whilst doing the same work.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on February 04, 2009, 12:34:46 PM
I wonder how the idea of a salary cap would work at Arsenal. I always thought a few of them were employed by the club in differing roles, and it seems a bit of grey area whether that would contribute to the cap.
When I see salary cap, I think NBA ie salary cap, draft, closed league etc. It does work in the USA but the full work here in UK would be a cultural shock...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: redrobin on February 04, 2009, 01:04:34 PM
I am just amazed they are thinking of a salary cap that is going the american way  :o

Just shows how out of this world the F.A. and the consultants were in all their plans for this new league. There's probably only 3 or 4 teams in the whole country that actually pay their players. The other 99% of clubs and players either only get expenses (at the top level) or pay to play.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on February 04, 2009, 02:48:46 PM
I am just amazed they are thinking of a salary cap that is going the american way  :o

Just shows how out of this world the F.A. and the consultants were in all their plans for this new league. There's probably only 3 or 4 teams in the whole country that actually pay their players. The other 99% of clubs and players either only get expenses (at the top level) or pay to play.


I foresee a business plan as cunning as the WUSA one coming our way  >:(
What kind of revenue they are expecting and rate payment do they expect ? a 400 pound a week cap ?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on February 04, 2009, 02:52:00 PM
I wonder how the idea of a salary cap would work at Arsenal. I always thought a few of them were employed by the club in differing roles, and it seems a bit of grey area whether that would contribute to the cap.
When I see salary cap, I think NBA ie salary cap, draft, closed league etc. It does work in the USA but the full work here in UK would be a cultural shock...

They have a salary cap in Rugby Legue too, and it is a means of creating an even competition and keeping clubs to sensible expenditure. Dave Whelan from Wigan Athletic in the premiership has suggested it for the EPL, which is quite funny really because Wigan's Rugby League team, which he also owned at one stage, are amongst the biggest culprits in breaching it.

Like RR says I wasn't really aware that many of them were paid as such at the moment, but it would only be eight teams in the Summer League and the payments or 'cap limit' might be very modest. It doesn't necessarily have to be a big issue. But at the moment we have no further details...
Title: FA seeks to mimic Swedish success
Post by: Rach_83 on February 16, 2009, 10:32:54 PM

FA seeks to mimic Swedish success

• Governing body to work closer with league clubs
• Extra funding expected for 2010 summer league

Tony Leighton - The Guardian, Monday 16 February 2009

The Football Association is pledging to implement ideas learned from a fact-finding mission to Sweden, whose gender equality approach to the game is typified by the former player Susanne Erlandsson being a vice-president of the country's FA – an impossible situation in England's male-dominated FA ­hierarchy. That particular state of affairs is likely to remain unaltered, certainly for the ­foreseeable future, but the governing body's approach to the women's club game is set for some changes after seeing the successes achieved by what has become one of the world's strongest women's leagues.

Crowds averaging almost 900 (compared with less than 100 in England's Premier League) watch games in the Damallsvenskan, which through Swedish FA marketing initiatives has funding approaching £1m a year from the Swedish Gaming Association and a similar amount from a TV4 deal that sees club and international games shown live to audiences of around 400,000. The Brazilian star Marta, recently voted the world's top player for a second successive year, was earning £3,000 a week at Sweden's leading club Umea IK before leaving to play in America's professional league.

Those financial and viewing figures are the stuff of dreams for the English game but Rachel Pavlou, the FA's national women's football development manager, said: "Seeing the Swedish model has greatly encouraged us to work more positively with our league clubs. The FA has done excellent work at grass roots and international levels but the league system which links the two has maybe not had enough attention and we will now aim to have a more joined-up approach."

Morag Taylor, the FA's marketing manager for women's football, added: "We have a list of potential sponsors and broadcast partners that we are targeting for our new summer league (set for a 2010 start) and we're very confident of raising the funding we need."

In what is the final season of the country's current Premier League the leaders, ­Arsenal, yesterday moved three points closer to winning a sixth successive title with a 4–0 win at Blackburn. The striker Kelly Smith, who like Marta is set to play in the USA this summer, scored twice to take her ­season's tally to 28. Everton remained six points behind the Gunners with a 3–1 win at Bristol, the striker Natasha Dowie scoring a hat-trick, while the bottom club, ­Fulham, lost 2-0 to Leeds and Chelsea drew 1–1 at Liverpool.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/16/womens-football-sweden-premier-league (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/16/womens-football-sweden-premier-league)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on February 16, 2009, 10:54:13 PM
Why does the FA always seem to miss the boat though?  :o

The Swedish league has been going for ages and the USA have beaten the FA to setting up a proper league, so players who may have stayed are leaving  >:(
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on February 17, 2009, 07:58:48 AM
Why does the FA always seem to miss the boat though?  :o

The Swedish league has been going for ages and the USA have beaten the FA to setting up a proper league, so players who may have stayed are leaving  >:(

I think the answer to your question is there

 The FA has done excellent work at grass roots and international levels but the league system which links the two has maybe not had enough attention and we will now aim to have a more joined-up approach."


I also think the FA are doing it England's benefit not the club's one
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on February 17, 2009, 11:50:40 PM
Yes - you're probably right, but not totally sure  :-\

To have done "excellent work at international levels" they should have had enough sense to realise that they need a decent league system to select players from - not let players disappear to other countries :(

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on February 18, 2009, 08:27:44 PM
A lot of the players that have left are on their last legs anyway.... I think the new set up is aimed at the new players coming through now and in the next few years...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on February 18, 2009, 11:39:53 PM
A lot of the players that have left are on their last legs anyway.... I think the new set up is aimed at the new players coming through now and in the next few years...
:o :o :o

Apart from Kelly Smith, the eldest of the other 4 to have signed is 24!!

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on February 19, 2009, 08:32:31 PM
The departure of 5 senior England players makes the summer league a complete waste of time and money. 

Which sponsor and broadcaster is going to invest money in a league without it's star players...particulary Kelly Smith.  Kelly is the highest profile player in the English game and how can they market the game without her.  The FA failed to market the game after Euro 2005 and it's obvious that they do not market the existing Premier League. 

The problem facing Premier League clubs over the next year is not the US League but the US Colleges and Universities recruiting young English players to replace the US internationals who have gone professional.  This has already started to happen with Everton being approached by one US University asking to speak to the young players.  I'm sure that this was just one of the first US Universities to approach the Premier League clubs.  They are already sending scouts to recruit players and just how many will be tempted to study in the US?


Blackburn Rovers lost a player to US college football this season and I can see the England U23 team being made up largely of players based at US Universities.  The option of a scolarship and US education would sway alot of young players despite whats on offer at Loughborough.

The FA need to market women's football and increase match day attendances...just 167 watched Blackburn play Arsenal.  That 167 was largely made up of parents, friends and Blackburn reserve and junior players.  How many real fans do clubs actually have? Do they actually care?

The Super League could end up being an expense White Elephant...the clubs and the FA need to start marketing the women's game properly.  I can't see much more than 200 fans attending siummer games...are they expecting thousands?  Lets see how many attend the League Cup Final next week?

The biggest headline in Women's football this season will be that Kelly Smith leave's the country clutching a League Cup Winners Medal. 

Shame it isn't for it's biggest star committing to play in a properly funded fully professional women's winter league.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on February 19, 2009, 11:09:28 PM
The departure of 5 senior England players makes the summer league a complete waste of time and money. 

Which sponsor and broadcaster is going to invest money in a league without it's star players...particulary Kelly Smith.  Kelly is the highest profile player in the English game and how can they market the game without her.  The FA failed to market the game after Euro 2005 and it's obvious that they do not market the existing Premier League. 

The problem facing Premier League clubs over the next year is not the US League but the US Colleges and Universities recruiting young English players to replace the US internationals who have gone professional.  This has already started to happen with Everton being approached by one US University asking to speak to the young players.  I'm sure that this was just one of the first US Universities to approach the Premier League clubs.  They are already sending scouts to recruit players and just how many will be tempted to study in the US?


Blackburn Rovers lost a player to US college football this season and I can see the England U23 team being made up largely of players based at US Universities.  The option of a scolarship and US education would sway alot of young players despite whats on offer at Loughborough.

The FA need to market women's football and increase match day attendances...just 167 watched Blackburn play Arsenal.  That 167 was largely made up of parents, friends and Blackburn reserve and junior players.  How many real fans do clubs actually have? Do they actually care?

The Super League could end up being an expense White Elephant...the clubs and the FA need to start marketing the women's game properly.  I can't see much more than 200 fans attending siummer games...are they expecting thousands?  Lets see how many attend the League Cup Final next week?

The biggest headline in Women's football this season will be that Kelly Smith leave's the country clutching a League Cup Winners Medal. 

Shame it isn't for it's biggest star committing to play in a properly funded fully professional women's winter league.
Good points there.

US Unis will provide scholarships for players, unlike loans you need in UK,  and US have facilities far better than here, so you can't blame youngsters for going there.
Wales have 2 players in main squad for Algarve Cup in US Unis (plus a replacement), assuming their site has got some things right, but, they'd possibly have a problem getting into the Elite league  anyway (no disrespect meant, but being Welsh, I do know the limitations of many of our players).

If you watch men's top level football, you'll always find the England coach at many games watching players in action, but, with the best will in the world, Hope Powell won't be travelling to watch a USA Uni team play, partly because of costs, but she rarely seems to be at games I go to in England even.

Blackburn had 167 watching on Sunday then - not a lot (but better than some other grounds), and this was to see the last league game of 3 English players!

Btw - if you have info re Blackburn attendances etc, you might like to add your bit to the new member here (http://womensfootball.eu/forum/index.php/topic,4661.0.html)

As you say, Kelly Smith will be leaving clutching a League Cup medal (I won't tempt fate and say "winner's" ;D).
The attendance for that game won't be high as it's played at a ground that's too difficult for many to get to - especially on a Thursday evening.
There will be over 20,000 at the WFA final again, I should imagine, as it will be played on a day and at a time when fans can get there.

It's a big shame Kelly's going, but, financially I don't blame her.
And - it's only the fans who already know her that appreciate how good she is - how often has she been publicised to others (apart from on Jonathan Woss show :()?
Becks and Rooney are household names, but Kelly is known to relatively few.


Title: "Be part of Football's future" The FA Women’s Super League
Post by: Rach_83 on February 26, 2009, 06:29:12 PM
The FA is pleased to announce that the application process for joining The FA Women’s Super League is now officially open. Packs with all relevant application information have now been released.

Documents for clubs:

    * Overview document, ‘Be part of football’s future’
    * Club Development Plan Checklist
    * Club Development Plan Template
    * Club Income and Expenditure Model
    * Club Development Fund Model
    * Ground Grading Minimum Requirements
    * Medical Guidelines
    * Terms and Conditions

The FA Women’s Super League will begin in March 2010, with the season running from March to October, a summer league that The FA hopes will be at the forefront of establishing a nationally competitive league structure at the highest level of women’s football.

FA Chairman Lord Triesman said “The launch of The FA Women’s Super League will help us take female football to a new and unprecedented level, increasing overall participation in what is now officially the most popular female team sport in the country.”

“The new league will help support and strengthen the commercial viability and sustainability of women’s football clubs and the overall hope is that it will help define a clear player pathway.”

Lord Triesman added, “This is a wonderful chance to do something new and different, and I believe a fantastic opportunity awaits women’s football in England. The game stands on the threshold of a new era, supported by a wide-ranging four-year strategy for the game at all levels. We’re looking forward to receiving membership applications and then working together to create a dynamic league which can grow and innovate over the years ahead.”

Clubs who are successful in their application will be awarded a two- year licence for the 2010 and 2011 seasons in which time the league will be closed to new entrants. The league will be semi-professional and will ideally operate, initially, with eight clubs, though the objective is to expand the league to a maximum of 12 by 2014.

Clubs who successfully apply for membership to The FA Women’s Super League will be able to apply for funding from The FA to support club development activities in specified areas thereby promoting sustainability. A maximum of £70,000 per season per club will be available.

Ensuring a competitive league is one of the FA’s main priorities. The FA believes that the creation of paid career opportunities for players alongside a salary cap will be key to ensuring that clubs are evenly matched.

The application process is open and transparent and any new or existing club can apply, provided they are affiliated to an English County FA. Clubs are required to submit their application in the form of a Club Development Plan.

Deadline for applications is Friday 24 April and the successful clubs will be announced in June.


http://www.thefa.com/Womens/PremierLeague/NewsAndFeatures/Postings/2009/02/SuperLeague_announcement.htm (http://www.thefa.com/Womens/PremierLeague/NewsAndFeatures/Postings/2009/02/SuperLeague_announcement.htm)

The bullet points listed (on the actual webpage) at the start of the article have links through to PDF files with more detail on each.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on February 26, 2009, 06:38:52 PM
thanks for posting.

So it is now confirmed that no domestic football will be played between may and march. might cause a little problem for teams qualifying for europe next season. think arsenal might do a lot of pr work around the world.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: pat51 on February 26, 2009, 06:42:59 PM
At last the thing gets off the ground. I must admit that having been totally against the idea , now we start to see the detail and starting dates it looks interesting. I only wonder how clubs are going to raise the funding which will match the F A investment in the current climate. Will applicants have to look to be tied in to a mens club more closely in order to get enough money?. Glad to learn that the non Super League clubs will continue to play in the winter....all year round football sounds good to me!
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on February 26, 2009, 06:45:40 PM
Shame that after all these years the country is still not in a position to introduce a fully pro league.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on February 26, 2009, 09:39:39 PM
There's quite a lot of reading to do here, but I'd be interested to hear what you all think of this now that the application information is out.

In summary:

The key features of The FA Women’s Super League will be:

• A semi-professional league.
• Fixtures played between March and October.
• An optimum eight teams from 2010.
• Closed league in 2010 and 2011 seasons.
• Season start dates to suit broadcast schedules.
• Breaks to accommodate international fixtures.
• Fixtures to include a big football festival, involving all teams, on a
Bank Holiday weekend.
• The FA Women’s Super League clubs enter The FA Women’s
Cup as part of the last 16 in March.
• The FA Women’s Premier League Cup continues to run for all FA
Women’s Premier League teams.

Just out of interest. The 'big festival' weekend seems to be another idea that they have used which has been done in Rugby League for a few years now.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on February 26, 2009, 10:33:54 PM
I haven't really looked at everything in detail but I'm just glad the FA have now done this in the public domain so everybody is aware of what is going to happen. It is a shame that at least 6 of the 8 months will see the game compete with men's football. i thought one of the main reasons for going down this route was for it not to be on at the same time.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on February 26, 2009, 10:53:28 PM
It seems that as games will be played between March and October, then they won't be playing from November to February.

Nothing new there then - the weather's the normal excuse though  :D

It seems that it shouldn't affect Uefa Cup teams, but maybe FA Cup will have to alter to accommodate the teams.
And, the Premier League Cup will be played during the summer, I suppose, and just be between these teams?

I've not read anything (except on here) yet.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Rach_83 on February 26, 2009, 10:54:58 PM
Due to most international tournaments (Euros & World Cup) taking place in the summer those dates (March - October) allow for the break that would be needed for those tournaments to take place and to allow players recovery time.

I've not read it through in detail yet, but is it competing with the men's game on a Saturday or will games continue to take place on Sundays when fewer men's games are played?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on February 26, 2009, 11:09:51 PM
I've not read it through in detail yet, but is it competing with the men's game on a Saturday or will games continue to take place on Sundays when fewer men's games are played?

In the overview document they say that the schedule will be flexible with the option to include midweek evening games. I suppose if they are sharing grounds then Saturday's might be hard to arrange for the overlap period.

I think at least some of the schedule will be decided in part by potential broadcasters. The netball superleague has, I think, televised games midweek and most other games at the weekend.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on February 27, 2009, 12:05:39 AM
I like a lot of what is being proposed. I worry that it still won't generate a lot of extra support if the games clash with men's games.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on February 28, 2009, 10:14:21 PM
Just a few points below that looked strange or unusual :

Summer league march to october fair enough
Semi-professional league ! :o I thought it would be a pro League
2 year licence , 2011 new club possible , max 12 in 2014  if club ejected/relegated  in 2011 all that work for nothing
Womens  pyramid to move to summer game  :o bold move
FA super league club enter the fa cup in the last 16  :o
Fa PREMIER League Cup to  continue which format
3 fa funded carreer opportunity
Salary cap  :o this one is really weird especially with the level stes up
The need to achieve a  national spread of clubs will be a selection priority  :o ::)
20 players maximum
Anticipate plc structure  :o someone can an abrahamovic lol

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on February 28, 2009, 11:59:09 PM
I've not read it all, but I would say...

Semi-professional league ! :o I thought it would be a pro League
2 year licence , 2011 new club possible , max 12 in 2014  if club ejected/relegated  in 2011 all that work for nothing

I don't think they have ever said it will be professional, and really the most important thing is for it to be sustainable.

I suppose franchises/clubs could drop out of it after two years, but hopefully if it is a success then that won't happen. Possibly one of the most ideal initial scenarios would be for more big men's clubs to get interested and join the league. With a line up such as Arsenal, Chelsea, Man U, Liverpool, Everton etc.

It could be a massive step forward.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on March 01, 2009, 12:06:12 AM
I think the FA are trying to do the right thing, as far as i have read arsenal wouls have to find a new ground as meadow park is not good enough in term of facilities as the quality they are looking at , I actually have no idea where those stadiums are  ???
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Rach_83 on March 01, 2009, 11:13:19 AM

The need to achieve a  national spread of clubs will be a selection priority  :o ::)
20 players maximum


isn't the current league a reasonable enough spread of teams?
20 players? I assume that teams can still have a reserves team and use players from this if a significant number of players from the main team are injured?
Semi-professional seems a good idea, sustainable is important and building for the future of the game is key I think rather than just pushing all the money in at the start when they don't even know if it will be a success.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on March 01, 2009, 08:18:25 PM
I think the FA are trying to do the right thing, as far as i have read arsenal wouls have to find a new ground as meadow park is not good enough in term of facilities as the quality they are looking at , I actually have no idea where those stadiums are  ???

I have just got round to reading all the documentation for application process and I certainly feel Arsenal will comfortably meet all the listed requirements set out by The FA.  One of the issues that could arise during the selection process is the limit on the amount of clubs from one region.  The FA has made it clear they want to have clubs from all of England’s regions represented in the new league.  I agree with Vic assessment that the FA will probably go for around 2 teams from London and the South East, 1 from the South West, 2 from the Midlands, 2 from the North East and 1 from the North West.

I do not feel the facilities at Boreham Wood would cause Arsenal any problems as I believe it meets all the minimum specification to attain the Women’s A grading.  The women’s grade A is equivalent to National Ground Grading Category D, in the National League System Step 4 of the men’s game.  A lot of non-league grounds have ‘C’ and ‘D’ gradings. What makes you think the ground fails to meet the specification?

isn't the current league a reasonable enough spread of teams?
20 players? I assume that teams can still have a reserves team and use players from this if a significant number of players from the main team are injured?
Semi-professional seems a good idea, sustainable is important and building for the future of the game is key I think rather than just pushing all the money in at the start when they don't even know if it will be a success.

It is not just current National Division teams that can apply to join the new Super League. They have stated that any club affiliated to an English County FA can apply. I hope this doesn't prevent a club like Cardiff from applying to be one of the clubs or for it to prevent promotion to the league in the future. They are part of the English football pyramid so I don't see why they'd be excluded now.

Interesting the ways in which the FA are trying to make the clubs more evenly-matched.

They said the following on it:

Quote from: The FA
The FA has considered many different ways of helping clubs and players engineer this – whilst ensuring fairness and avoiding onerous restrictions.

Rather than limit the number of senior national players registered with any one club – at first glance the simplest way of engineering strong competition – The FA believes the twofold League objectives above can be achieved by a two-pronged strategy:

• By the creation of three FA-funded career opportunities for players in each club.
• By introducing a salary cap.

The salary cap will mean:

• Each club can only register two players who are paid more than £40,000 gross per player by the club in any one ‘salary cap year’.
• Further, each club will only be allowed to have six players in total – including those paid over £40,000 gross – who are paid more than £20,000 gross per player by the club in a ‘salary cap year’.

Central contracts for England players are being introduced in 2009. Payments made by The FA to players via these central contracts will not be included in The FA Women’s Super League salary cap calculations. A central contract will be worth approximately £16,000 per player per season.

I wonder when the process of awarding central contracts will start by the FA.  Can anyone remember how many players are going to get central contracts?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on March 01, 2009, 08:32:43 PM
I think it is 25 central contract.
The mens' toilet at Borehamwood are below the standard required in the document IMO.
I also think the salary cap is strange and I wonder if some players with their actual job are paid more than 20 000
as more than 40 000 per year at a womens football club would be a lot of money.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on March 01, 2009, 09:48:51 PM
I think it is 25 central contract.

Thanks. I reckon up and coming players like Gemma Davison must have a great chance of getting a central contract especially considering the league will be losing 5 of its best player to the US pro league.

I also think the salary cap is strange and I wonder if some players with their actual job are paid more than 20 000 as more than 40 000 per year at a womens football club would be a lot of money.

The salary cap is good for the league as a whole. The FA want to prevent all the top players being at just one or two different clubs and this is a good way to achieve that aim. Teams like Arsenal and Everton would probably end up losing a number of players because of it though.  The salary cap only includes payments made to the player by her club and its associated partners. By the way the financial figures they are quoting are the amounts the FA expect the players will be paid once the new league commences. Obviously players don’t get paid anywhere near that figure for playing football at the moment.

Quote from: The FA
The salary cap will include all financial payments and benefits (e.g. vehicle and/or accommodation payments) liable to income tax that a club or any of its associated partners makes to any individual who is registered to play for that club. This includes any payments for playing, and for other club and football-related activities that will benefit the club e.g. for paid work in sports development, coaching or administration roles. Payments made from the Club Development Fund for the three FA-paid career opportunities for players, will be included in the salary cap.

The mens' toilet at Borehamwood are below the standard required in the document IMO.

I'm sure any problems with the toilets at Boreham Wood can easily be resolved. The ground would have got a rating from the FA for the men’s side remember. If the worse came to the worse Arsenal has links with a number of other football league and non-league sides that they could then approach.

btw it was very interested that both ITV and Setanta have expressed interest in broadcasting the new league.  That would be a boast in terms of both exposure and additional revenue it would help to generate.
Title: Attendance
Post by: shlj on March 02, 2009, 08:58:08 AM
Yesterday at Watford Fulham I counted 80 far away from the 300 target intended although there was no big team involved in the mens football on tv  ;) Just wonder how many potential spectators prefered to watch the Carling cup...Shame those girls are putting a lot of effort and workload and even if they are not the most skilfull players
I think they deserve a lot of respect ie more spectators.  Brent Hills was there yesterday, I am not sue what conclusions he could make of the game, Ken was there usual moaning at the ref and onther people as well.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on March 02, 2009, 10:30:41 AM
Ha...good old Ken..
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on March 02, 2009, 12:37:55 PM
Some FA official were there I think and he was telling them who to pikc for England and how to run their businesses, maybe he should apply for a job there  :D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on March 02, 2009, 11:35:15 PM
The FA has made it clear they want to have clubs from all of England’s regions represented in the new league.  I agree with Vic assessment that the FA will probably go for around 2 teams from London and the South East, 1 from the South West, 2 from the Midlands, 2 from the North East and 1 from the North West.
It depends how you define North East, North West and Midlands.

To me, North East means Sunderland, Newcastle.
North West includes Everton, Liverpool, Blackburn.
Midlands means Birmingham, Forest, Lincoln etc.

Where do Leeds etc fit in?

I suppose FA regard Lincoln as North East  :D

I reckon that teams in league should be able to stand alone with no problems or properly affiliated to men's teams - although clubs like Man Utd aren't interested - probably because they are too interested in their own finances, and don't see the women's game as being beneficial to them.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on March 03, 2009, 11:06:19 AM
It depends how you define North East, North West and Midlands.

To me, North East means Sunderland, Newcastle.
North West includes Everton, Liverpool, Blackburn.
Midlands means Birmingham, Forest, Lincoln etc.

I meant to say 2 North West teams and 1 North East team.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: cardy on March 03, 2009, 01:34:15 PM
I still dont understand the superleague.  With only 25 central contracts the obvious recipients will be among the current senior squad and those on the outskirts.  Does that include any Loughborough students?

Also, where are the matches going to be held, someone raised the issue of the pitch rennovations during the summer. 

What about Clubs like Watford, having done so well to reach the Premier League.  Will they just fade away now. 

I do wonder whether its going to be a 'job for the girls'  bit too.

I dont think they will stop players going to the US either.  It remains to be seen whether or not the League succeeds in the US but I think a lot of younger players will still want to play there.  Maybe the players that will go to the US are the ones who are rated by their clubs but not be Hope Powell.  That will be a loss for the Clubs too.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on March 03, 2009, 02:01:17 PM
Quote from: cardy
I still dont understand the superleague.  With only 25 central contracts the obvious recipients will be among the current senior squad and those on the outskirts.  Does that include any Loughborough students?
I don't think senior players who earn already more than 16,000 a year will take the central contracts  ??? So my guess is fringe players and England youth will get them including Loughborough students.


Quote from: cardy
What about Clubs like Watford, having done so well to reach the Premier League.  Will they just fade away now. 

I guess they will be relegated in the second tier and loose their best players ? and compete in the lower division for at least two years before applying for a license when the quota opens again.

Quote from: cardy
I dont think they will stop players going to the US either.  It remains to be seen whether or not the League succeeds in the US but I think a lot of younger players will still want to play there. Maybe the players that will go to the US are the ones who are rated by their clubs but not by Hope Powell.  That will be a loss for the Clubs too.

I agree those who really want to go in the USA WILL go regardless of the offer here.
We have two French players who are putting their international career in jeopardy by going now, so those who are not fancied by Hope Powell and rated by the WPS team will go.
But those who are ambivalent are more likely to stay with the new League especially if they like living in UK and are not the adventurous type.

Let's say the between the senior to the U17 there are 100 international players.
5 went now so 95 are still in the UK, how many would go to the US university and the WPS ?
Not many IMO. 
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on March 03, 2009, 02:25:26 PM
Someone at Chelsea, whose anonymity I'll keep, said that the FA's Summer League is a disaster and Hope Powell won't know what's hit her.

I think it's therefore reasonable to conclude that the clubs have serious doubts about the way this is panning out.

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on March 03, 2009, 03:11:33 PM
I think the project is well presented, you can clearly see what they want to achieve.
The club income and expenditure model figures are obviously examples but I would really question how can a club break even  ??? To be fair as long as someone can put money back in the club, it is ok as per Chelsea men 's free of charge loans from Roman Abrahamovich.

Also Everton and Arsenal who will play the Champions League next season, will be really short of competitive games and might loose early with now 2 legged games from the last 32  round. 
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: cardy on March 03, 2009, 04:59:44 PM
I have heard that there will have to be 'friendlies' arranged in preparation for the uefa cup.  That may mean here on maybe, if theyre lucky, abroad somewhere.  The latter would be more beneficial I think.  How that will fit in with work commitments etc is yet to be worked out. 

I dont think the clubs know what to do at the moment.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: cardy on March 03, 2009, 05:05:00 PM
I have heard rumours about friendlies to prepare for the uefa cup.  Whether these are hear or abroad I dont know.  Obviously matches abroad would be more beneficial. 

I am not sure about the fringe players and NOT seniors getting contracts.  Some of the Seniors dont earn much and their income may not exceed 16000 pa.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on March 03, 2009, 10:31:27 PM
It depends how you define North East, North West and Midlands.

To me, North East means Sunderland, Newcastle.
North West includes Everton, Liverpool, Blackburn.
Midlands means Birmingham, Forest, Lincoln etc.

I meant to say 2 North West teams and 1 North East team.
That's a bit better then, but as I mentioned somewhere else, the FA seem to regard Scunthorpe as North East - so where do Leeds and Donnie fit in?
Anyone from Yorkshire will tell you they're a separate country  ;D


Someone at Chelsea, whose anonymity I'll keep, said that the FA's Summer League is a disaster and Hope Powell won't know what's hit her.

I think it's therefore reasonable to conclude that the clubs have serious doubts about the way this is panning out.



Anything the FA etc get their hands on seems to end up being a disaster, so nothing new there.

Going back to the early 1960s, someone - Alan Hardaker I think, suggested that as some men's teams were now playing in Europe, they should reduce the number of teams on the top flight so as not to place too high a burden on them in terms of games played, and introduce a League Cup for those not involved in Europe.

The result? League cup was introduced, but top flight still kept at 22 teams  :'(
 
The League Cup was voluntary to enter at first, but it still meant teams in Europe often played a lot of games.

I suppose we'll end up with the same type of mess here, with lack of fully joined-up thinking in various things, and, as shlj points out re 2 teams in last 32 round in Europe playing 2-legged games, that could be another disaster. It means 8 games spread through the winter prior to the final for those that reach it.
Currently it can be sorted so most teams are content, but what about the future?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on March 04, 2009, 01:17:31 PM
Quote from: cardy
I still dont understand the superleague.  With only 25 central contracts the obvious recipients will be among the current senior squad and those on the outskirts.  Does that include any Loughborough students?
I don't think senior players who earn already more than 16,000 a year will take the central contracts  ??? So my guess is fringe players and England youth will get them including Loughborough students.
The player would get £16,000 from the FA plus a salary from her club side.

Quote from: cardy
What about Clubs like Watford, having done so well to reach the Premier League.  Will they just fade away now.
I guess they will be relegated in the second tier and loose their best players ? and compete in the lower division for at least two years before applying for a license when the quota opens again.
Watford have got a good chance of making the new league. The big problem for Watford is the region they are in because the region has a number of teams that are linked with men's clubs. They cannot all make the new league.

Quote from: cardy
I dont think they will stop players going to the US either.  It remains to be seen whether or not the League succeeds in the US but I think a lot of younger players will still want to play there. Maybe the players that will go to the US are the ones who are rated by their clubs but not by Hope Powell.  That will be a loss for the Clubs too.

I've heard both Karen Carney and Kelly Smith say in interviews that they probably wouldn't of gone if the new English league had been up and running now.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Oldship30 on March 04, 2009, 01:34:13 PM
Someone at Chelsea, whose anonymity I'll keep, said that the FA's Summer League is a disaster and Hope Powell won't know what's hit her.

I think it's therefore reasonable to conclude that the clubs have serious doubts about the way this is panning out.



A players parent by any chance  ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on March 04, 2009, 01:45:21 PM
It depends how you define North East, North West and Midlands.

To me, North East means Sunderland, Newcastle.
North West includes Everton, Liverpool, Blackburn.
Midlands means Birmingham, Forest, Lincoln etc.

I meant to say 2 North West teams and 1 North East team.
That's a bit better then, but as I mentioned somewhere else, the FA seem to regard Scunthorpe as North East - so where do Leeds and Donnie fit in?
Anyone from Yorkshire will tell you they're a separate country  ;D

country or county ;)

I think England has more regions than the number of teams set for this league.

List of regions
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on March 04, 2009, 02:29:54 PM
It's good to know, I never learnt that one in English classes  :)

I would bet on :

 Midlands 1 team  Aston Villa + Leicester + Birmingham + Nottingham
 Yorkshire 1 team Leeds + Doncaster
 North West  1 team Everton + Liverpool + Blackburn
 North East  1 team Sunderland + Newcastle
 South West 1 team Bristol + Cardiff
 South East   1 team Charlton 
 London 2 teams Arsenal + Watford, Chelsea


Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on March 04, 2009, 03:02:01 PM
Teams like Man Utd, Man City and Spurs might want to apply as well. They don't have to be an elite club to apply.

PS Charlton would come under the London region and Watford would be in the South East.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on March 04, 2009, 03:40:11 PM
Teams like Man Utd, Man City and Spurs might want to apply as well. They don't have to be an elite club to apply.

PS Charlton would come under the London region and Watford would be in the South East.
I have a lot to learn about london regions lol  those big mens team  could back up the womens' team with money so that would be good.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: smithy on March 04, 2009, 06:04:00 PM
I doubt that Man United would apply , they disbanded the girls team because they couldn't be bothered with it and wanted to concentrate on the boys.  So i don't think we're see them applying , Man City might do though.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on March 04, 2009, 06:10:30 PM
I doubt that Man United would apply , they disbanded the girls team because they couldn't be bothered with it and wanted to concentrate on the boys.  So i don't think we're see them applying , Man City might do though.

A couple of reasons why Man Utd might go for it would be that they disbanded the girls team when other people were in charge and another reason would be that the Premier League were asked at one stage to encourage premiership teams to have a side.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on March 04, 2009, 10:00:10 PM
I doubt that Man United would apply , they disbanded the girls team because they couldn't be bothered with it and wanted to concentrate on the boys.  So i don't think we're see them applying , Man City might do though.

A couple of reasons why Man Utd might go for it would be that they disbanded the girls team when other people were in charge and another reason would be that the Premier League were asked at one stage to encourage premiership teams to have a side.
And Man Utd like any publicity they can get ;)

Btw John - I did mean "country" regarding Yorkshire  ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on March 20, 2009, 10:27:08 AM
On the grapevine.

Forget teams' relative status. The Summer League is nothing about footballing ability.

The overriding concern and criteria for the FA is whether the clubs can afford to opt in. Some £70,000,  plus all the other bits and pieces that go towards putting on a match. Simply, this means the second best club in the Premier, Everton, are unlikely to make it. Watford can forget it.

Chelsea and Arsenal can, as could probably Bristol Academy and Leeds Carnegie thanks to their college connections. I wouldn't necessarily discount Cardiff, thanks to their Welsh Cup wins.

However, it means that you could well be seeing Loughborough University in the super league. Who?  Precisely.

In essence, if I had the money to opt in and hire a ground that meets the criteria, I could get eleven girls off the park and play Arsenal. Some 'super league'. Despite the FA's spin document, nothing has been decided, although they think they may have five interested clubs. Assuming, of course, they can find grounds that aren't being reseeded and dug up over the summer.

I understand, that at this point, NO club have secured a summer venue. Oh, and add in no promotion and relegation for some time...

Insert word of choice here:  'monumental **** up'
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Rach_83 on March 20, 2009, 12:59:30 PM
On the grapevine.

Forget teams' relative status. The Summer League is nothing about footballing ability.


So how is this going to encourage new supporters to the game, if we just see Arsenal continuing there 'reign' over all other clubs because they have the most money to encourage all the players to there team. Nice to see that Birmingham and Doncaster's rivalry for the 4th and 5th spots could be completely waste of time if it helps their status for next season in no way what so ever.

What a monumental **** up indeed.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on March 20, 2009, 01:11:49 PM
I would love to see Man United come in, put one weeks of  Ronaldo's wage on the table per season, and see if the FA grant them a licence  ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: pat51 on March 20, 2009, 02:08:07 PM
Monday's Guardian article by Tony Leighton mentioned that Sunderland were interested in applying , owing to the mens club under Niall Quinn re-adopting a much more supportive role towards the womens team.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on March 20, 2009, 02:54:55 PM
So how is this going to encourage new supporters to the game, if we just see Arsenal continuing there 'reign' over all other clubs because they have the most money to encourage all the players to there team. Nice to see that Birmingham and Doncaster's rivalry for the 4th and 5th spots could be completely waste of time if it helps their status for next season in no way what so ever.
There is a salary cap to prevent rich teams to get all the players. Indeed,Birmingham and Doncaster might be relegated at the end of the season even by finishing fourth.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on March 20, 2009, 03:08:36 PM
Some of Vic Akers thoughts...

For Kelly and Alex, it was great to finish on such a resounding high.  I think they’re both really disappointed to be leaving, but the circumstances are that they couldn’t do anything but accept what is on offer in the new American league.  It’s a shame because we have a new Super League scheduled to start here next summer and you’d think that a Super League needs to have super players, but in their cases it’s not to be.

On a related note, we’ve just received an information pack about how the new league here will be set up, but there are still many questions unanswered for us so we’ll be filling it in and asking those questions at the same time.  As far as we know, they are asking for applications to the league as of now – and to me it seems that somebody could come in from nowhere and produce a reason as to why they should be in the Super League, irrespective of whether or not they are currently in the top echelon of the game.  That seems strange, but we need to give it some time to develop and then we’ll have a greater understanding of what lies in front of us.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on March 20, 2009, 10:02:38 PM
Monday's Guardian article by Tony Leighton mentioned that Sunderland were interested in applying , owing to the mens club under Niall Quinn re-adopting a much more supportive role towards the womens team.

Niall Quinn is a very decent person - he gave the proceeds from his testimonial to charity, so I'd not be surprised if he paid for the ladies out of his own pocket.

On the grapevine.

Forget teams' relative status. The Summer League is nothing about footballing ability.

The overriding concern and criteria for the FA is whether the clubs can afford to opt in. Some £70,000,  plus all the other bits and pieces that go towards putting on a match. Simply, this means the second best club in the Premier, Everton, are unlikely to make it. Watford can forget it.

Chelsea and Arsenal can, as could probably Bristol Academy and Leeds Carnegie thanks to their college connections. I wouldn't necessarily discount Cardiff, thanks to their Welsh Cup wins.

However, it means that you could well be seeing Loughborough University in the super league. Who?  Precisely.

In essence, if I had the money to opt in and hire a ground that meets the criteria, I could get eleven girls off the park and play Arsenal. Some 'super league'. Despite the FA's spin document, nothing has been decided, although they think they may have five interested clubs. Assuming, of course, they can find grounds that aren't being reseeded and dug up over the summer.

I understand, that at this point, NO club have secured a summer venue. Oh, and add in no promotion and relegation for some time...

Insert word of choice here:  'monumental **** up'


I thought that Everton were pleased to have a ladies' team - surely they'll cough up?

But, it seems that many people are very confused - even the Beeb!
BBC sport website said the other day that Liverpool's win had made them safer from relegation, and they are in 10th position  ::)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on March 20, 2009, 10:18:54 PM
It doesn't indeed, the only thing that could make them safe is funding...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on March 20, 2009, 10:40:13 PM
It doesn't indeed, the only thing that could make them safe is funding...
Yes - seems that way, but BBC seem to be under the misapprehension that 10 teams will be in the top flight next season  ???
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on March 20, 2009, 11:01:04 PM
In theory the team ranked 11th and 12th shoud have gone down, so those  3 points were taking them furthr away from the relegation zone.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on March 20, 2009, 11:20:48 PM
In theory the team ranked 11th and 12th shoud have gone down, so those  3 points were taking them furthr away from the relegation zone.
Yes - we all know that, but thought that the BBC would have known that things are going to change.

Anyway - Forest are just 4 points behind and 3 games in hand, so they might not end up in top 10.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on March 23, 2009, 05:27:45 PM
It certainly looks as though Bristol Academy are considering an application:

Become part of the hottest thing in football - The new summer league

Bristol Academy WFC (Women’s Football Club) aim to provide you with an exciting fixtures list of summer football and the Club are currently involved in a highly competitive bidding process to become one of the eight leading women’s football clubs in the new FA Women’s Super League due to kick off in March 2010.

The ‘Super League’ will buck the current trend of women’s football and will see an end to the sport being a seasonal winter affair, and transformed into a new summer league, which will begin in March and will continue until October. The FA believes that the Summer League will establish a nationally competitive league structure at the highest level of women’s football.

Women’s football is becoming a phenomenon and has boomed in the last 10 years with the National Teams having tremendous success in qualifying for the European Championships, which helped promote the game further with regular television and media attention.

The Bristol Academy WFC are the south west’s leading women’s team and their bid will benefit female footballers from across the region with this dream opportunity.

BAWFC are well placed to meet the standards, and those in the Summer League will be awarded a two-year licence for the 2010 and 2011 seasons. Playing in the Summer League will enable the club to realise its ambitions of becoming the leading women’s team within the country.

The Summer League format has been designed to be attractive for the media and interest has already been expressed in the FA Women’s Super League by the current FA broadcasting partners, ITV and Setanta. For this reason, the FA fully expects to have a broadcaster in place for the start of the season.

The support of commercial partners will enable the Bristol Academy WFC to fulfil its full potential in the Summer League. If you would like to be part of this exciting prospect, please contact Simon Panes on 0117 9192634 or Sophie Dyer on 0117 9192615 (sophie.dyer@filton.ac.uk)

Source: http://www.bristolacademywfc.co.uk/news.php?prId=1344
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on March 23, 2009, 05:39:52 PM
This is good news. I still wonder who the 7 other franchise will be.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on March 23, 2009, 06:08:36 PM
It's hard to tell. I don't like reading too much into things, but when they say "ideally eight" in the documentation, it makes me think they might not get eight.

Potential applicants seem to be playing their cards close to their chest at the moment, and I'm not aware of anybody having ruled it out publicly, so we'll just have to wait for the closing date I suppose.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on March 23, 2009, 06:15:29 PM
It's hard to tell. I don't like reading too much into things, but when they say "ideally eight" in the documentation, it makes me think they might not get eight.

Potential applicants seem to be playing their cards close to their chest at the moment, and I'm not aware of anybody having ruled it out publicly, so we'll just have to wait for the closing date I suppose.

Vic certainly said Arsenal were filling in the application form.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on March 23, 2009, 08:49:24 PM
This is good news. I still wonder who the 7 other franchise will be.

Latest rumours?  Chelsea, Arsenal, Bristol Academy, Leeds Carnegie, OOH Lincoln, Sunderland....and Loughborough.  Pretty much ticks the London, south east, midlands, yorks and north east boxes nicely.

With unsuccessful sides forming a National Division as a second tier, with a third tier of Northern and Southern Divisions, some lucky clubs may well leapfrog an entire division - or an entire league structure.

Only rumours, mind! 
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on March 25, 2009, 01:20:23 AM
Shame Everton is not included  :(
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on March 25, 2009, 10:41:07 AM
Monday's Guardian article by Tony Leighton mentioned that Sunderland were interested in applying , owing to the mens club under Niall Quinn re-adopting a much more supportive role towards the womens team.

Niall Quinn is a very decent person - he gave the proceeds from his testimonial to charity, so I'd not be surprised if he paid for the ladies out of his own pocket.

On the grapevine.

Forget teams' relative status. The Summer League is nothing about footballing ability.

The overriding concern and criteria for the FA is whether the clubs can afford to opt in. Some £70,000,  plus all the other bits and pieces that go towards putting on a match. Simply, this means the second best club in the Premier, Everton, are unlikely to make it. Watford can forget it.

Chelsea and Arsenal can, as could probably Bristol Academy and Leeds Carnegie thanks to their college connections. I wouldn't necessarily discount Cardiff, thanks to their Welsh Cup wins.

However, it means that you could well be seeing Loughborough University in the super league. Who?  Precisely.

In essence, if I had the money to opt in and hire a ground that meets the criteria, I could get eleven girls off the park and play Arsenal. Some 'super league'. Despite the FA's spin document, nothing has been decided, although they think they may have five interested clubs. Assuming, of course, they can find grounds that aren't being reseeded and dug up over the summer.

I understand, that at this point, NO club have secured a summer venue. Oh, and add in no promotion and relegation for some time...

Insert word of choice here:  'monumental **** up'


I thought that Everton were pleased to have a ladies' team - surely they'll cough up?

But, it seems that many people are very confused - even the Beeb!
BBC sport website said the other day that Liverpool's win had made them safer from relegation, and they are in 10th position  ::)

Ha yah think....there are a few people within Everton who are not happy with the woman's team and think its a waste of money, I remember getting some names once but I've forgotten them now.... So I'm not surprised that the former star of Z-Cars isn't going to put his hand in his pocket to get Everton into the top league.  I suppose they'll be a mass exodus now with all Everton's top players moving away.  I had a funny feeling this would happen.  I wonder if Everton's lack luster performance on Sunday has anything to do with this as well, after all why bust a gut for a team who are going to pull the rug out from under them...  I hope they put on a show for the last few games and take the title so they can make the FA and the Everton hierarchy look foolish not having the league champions in the new top league.....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on March 25, 2009, 11:27:27 AM
Under the new format, the UEFA Women's Champions League will include just one round of mini-tournaments, including for the first time the runners-up from the top eight ranked nations, with the qualifiers to join the top-seeded clubs in the Round of 32. From this stage the UEFA Women's Champions League will be played on a two-legged knockout basis, giving clubs more opportunity to have games at their home ground.
I have been told the first group stage will happen between the end of July/ beginning of August.
This one includes, the team registered as number two by the FA.
The round of 32 will be middle of September straight after the Euros and the round of 16 at the beginning of October. Good luck for the English teams to be competitive... 
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on March 25, 2009, 06:19:00 PM
Under the new format, the UEFA Women's Champions League will include just one round of mini-tournaments, including for the first time the runners-up from the top eight ranked nations, with the qualifiers to join the top-seeded clubs in the Round of 32. From this stage the UEFA Women's Champions League will be played on a two-legged knockout basis, giving clubs more opportunity to have games at their home ground.
I have been told the first group stage will happen between the end of July/ beginning of August.
This one includes, the team registered as number two by the FA.
The round of 32 will be middle of September straight after the Euros and the round of 16 at the beginning of October. Good luck for the English teams to be competitive... 

Yea good luck to them....I do hope that Everton win the league so that the FA look as stupid as possible not including the champions as one of the two representatives....though they may not exist by then...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on March 25, 2009, 06:27:55 PM
Yea good luck to them....I do hope that Everton win the league so that the FA look as stupid as possible not including the champions as one of the two representatives....though they may not exist by then...
I haven't seen anything in the presentation relating to the Champions' League and there is nothing on the FA website as well about picking up teams. As far as I know they can pick whatever team they want on don't have to choose those who will finish first and second making even more a mockery of the current season.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on March 25, 2009, 06:48:38 PM
Yea good luck to them....I do hope that Everton win the league so that the FA look as stupid as possible not including the champions as one of the two representatives....though they may not exist by then...
I haven't seen anything in the presentation relating to the Champions' League and there is nothing on the FA website as well about picking up teams. As far as I know they can pick whatever team they want on don't have to choose those who will finish first and second making even more a mockery of the current season.


The main purpose of this new league was to promote the game and the clubs its first act however might be to kill one or two off....If a lot of Everton's stars move away would they still have enough players to field a team in the new 'second tier' I wonder....The same thing happened up here to Queen's Park where the old filth, Rangers and Celtic swooped in to cherry pick the best players and Queens had to withdraw from the league as they couldn't field a team.  Luckly Queens Park seem committeed to having a womans team and I think they'll be coming back next season...I don't think Everton have the same attitude though and if they can't field a team they will just let it fold...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on March 25, 2009, 09:01:18 PM
When I started following the women's game, Charlton were a top team; the first final I saw was them, beating Arsenal in the League Cup in 2006.
Before that, Fulham had been one of the best.
Both had the rug pulled from under them, so I suppose it can happen to Everton too, unfortunately.

This is good news. I still wonder who the 7 other franchise will be.

Latest rumours?  Chelsea, Arsenal, Bristol Academy, Leeds Carnegie, OOH Lincoln, Sunderland....and Loughborough.  Pretty much ticks the London, south east, midlands, yorks and north east boxes nicely.

With unsuccessful sides forming a National Division as a second tier, with a third tier of Northern and Southern Divisions, some lucky clubs may well leapfrog an entire division - or an entire league structure.

Only rumours, mind! 
The rumour mill rules out teams from the North West then :(
Even if it's not Everton, it would be a shame for there not to be a team from one of the original hotbeds of footy (men's, at least).

It's hard to tell. I don't like reading too much into things, but when they say "ideally eight" in the documentation, it makes me think they might not get eight.

Potential applicants seem to be playing their cards close to their chest at the moment, and I'm not aware of anybody having ruled it out publicly, so we'll just have to wait for the closing date I suppose.
Personally, I'd prefer it if they get 8, but if it's not going to be Everton, I hope they don't get a totally new franchise setting up a team in the North West (assuming that it's that area where it happens).

For selfish reasons, it's nice to have a decent team within easy travelling distance, and I'd prefer not to think of Leeds Carnegie as the nearest team to here - 145 miles each way to their current ground  :'(

But, I'd not like to see someone set up ABC Utd or whatever, with no fan base to start with, wherever they're situated.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on March 25, 2009, 10:16:18 PM
Both had the rug pulled from under them, so I suppose it can happen to Everton too, unfortunately.

Bear in mind these are just rumours, albeit from sources within the women's game. Don't take Everton's absence as concrete - more like slightly wet cement.

I agree that Charlton and Fulham set a worrying precedent. Everton are certainly far from untouchable in that respect. But while there currently appears to be some doubt over Everton's ability to raise the figure needed, it doesn't necessarily suggest they won't.

As pointed out in an earlier post, Arsenal have filled in the forms while still having a number of unanswered questions. However, I admit I was surprised when Everton didn't appear to be an automatic choice.

It does make you think how the FA would justify the loss of the second-best team in England. Unlike Charlton, this would happen as a direct result of their intervention. Then again, those unanswered questions mentioned earlier still don't appear to be receiving answers. While Genesis, the consultants involved, have pushed the main idea of a super league, they seem to have no clue about the details that make it work. Believe me when I say there are a LOT of unanswered basic questions.

In the meantime, the NW region seems up for grabs. But if not Everton - then who? When I interviewed Liverpool's ex-manager David Bradley, he said they got good support from the men's club, but whether that translates to hard cash remains to be seen. Blackburn? Doubtful - while Doncaster's problems are well-documented - plus Leeds Carnegie already are likely to fill one Yorkshire berth.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on March 25, 2009, 10:23:55 PM
I have re-read all the documents and the FA has put number of clauses when they said, they can change parameters when they see fit like salary cap or other stuff. Interesting to see the appeal process is avaiable for the  plc that do not agree with the FA 's verdict.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on March 25, 2009, 10:56:00 PM
I have re-read all the documents and the FA has put number of clauses when they said, they can change parameters when they see fit like salary cap or other stuff. Interesting to see the appeal process is avaiable for the  plc that do not agree with the FA 's verdict.
So the FA are going to do things to suit themselves?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on March 26, 2009, 09:43:36 AM
I think the idea of a Superleague is a good one and it goes towards a professionalisation of womens football. As a medium-long term plan, it is very  good but at the moment, it feels like they are asking too much too soon. It is as if a the pole vault minimum request for women was gonna be 5m from now on,  while every other athlete struggles at 4.80 already :( you would get Isinbayeva to do it and maybe another one by miracle and that would be it !   
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on March 26, 2009, 06:11:44 PM
Then again, those unanswered questions mentioned earlier still don't appear to be receiving answers. While Genesis, the consultants involved, have pushed the main idea of a super league, they seem to have no clue about the details that make it work. Believe me when I say there are a LOT of unanswered basic questions.

Are you able to tell us what these basic unanswered questions are? I know you say they are mentioned earlier, but I'm curious and I'd find it helpful if you could concisely list them.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on March 26, 2009, 07:14:34 PM
Are you able to tell us what these basic unanswered questions are? I know you say they are mentioned earlier, but I'm curious and I'd find it helpful if you could concisely list them.

i won't bore you with the ins and out of every debatable point in the FA document, but for example:

- How will the Cup competitions interract between summer and winter clubs. Dates of finals, for example, May is early for summer clubs. The FA Cup would no longer be the season's showpiece.
- Findiing grounds at the required status over summer
- The logistics of playing on 3G pitches if necessary - chances are they're not going to be part of a stadium that allows TV coverage, hoped-for numbers of spectators etc
- Allocation of players around the clubs - ie geography, personal choice. 'draft'.
- Allocation of clubs to regions - criteria used.
- "Meet minimum standards via a rigorous application process. Finances, standards and performances permitting"  No clarification yet, I believe re: performance-based.
- Concern over the FA's figures: re expenditure etc. Possibly woefully underestimated.
- Concern over the knock-on effect on clubs under the super-league pyramid.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on March 26, 2009, 07:40:47 PM
Oh I see... I suggest you ring this number then:

After you’ve read through the contents of this pack, if you have any questions or queries, please contact our dedicated Advice Line: 0844 980 0380 or email super.league@TheFA.com.

Or maybe The Samaritans if that would be more helpful.  ;)

Seriously though... I don't see why many of those things you've raised can't be overcome.

For example:

- The dates for the FA Cup could be overcome if there is sufficient overlap. Yes it will be different, but why is it unsurmountable.
- I can probably think of about a dozen grounds that are used throughout the year. Yes grounds need maintenance, but it can be arranged.
- I've really no idea about TV coverage at 3G pitches, but I don't think that is the preferred option anyway. There is something in the application pack about a basic gantry being sufficient.
- Allocation of clubs to regions and players to clubs can only really be answered once the bids are in.
- I don't understand what you are getting at with performances permitting.
- I can't really comment on the financial side of things.

Don't take that too seriously. I'm not in a position of knowledge over this.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on March 26, 2009, 09:40:41 PM
I don't see why many of those things you've raised can't be overcome.

Agreed, BillyBoy.

I'm not suggesting that these points aren't unsurmountable. However, what I AM saying is that the clubs still have concerns about some of the logistics - and are awaiting answers even while being asked to apply. As you requested, these were some of the points that have been mentioned.

Re: Performances permitting - Clubs will have to show they can raise their game on and off the pitch and meet minimum standards via a rigorous application process. Finances, standards and performances permitting,
the goal is to expand The FA Women’s Super League to a maximum of 12 clubs by 2014."

As you say, not quite understood yet. Are we talking champions of the lower divisions? The third-placed team if the two above don't meet the financial and standards criteria, Fifth place? And the fact remains that application to the super league next year doesn't appear to take into account footballing ability.

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on March 27, 2009, 07:34:08 AM
One of the criteria for assessing the applicants is an indicative list of the squad. So although league placings are not the deciding factor, franchises will obviously not be able to just have anybody playing in their teams. And it seems likely that the top players will want to be in the summer league.

But you are quite right. Somebody can come in from nowhere if they have the finance, squad, facilities , geographical location etc... Personally I wouldn't regard that as a particularly bad thing.
Title: salary cap
Post by: shlj on March 27, 2009, 08:15:30 AM
Some stuff do surprise me :

Players will central contract not included in salary cap
Only two players can be paid more than 40 000 gross  a year
Only six players can be paid more than 20 000 a year

The salary cap does include those who do a job for the club in admin etc...

20 000 is not big money for a normal job IMO
Title: reply from the FA
Post by: shlj on March 27, 2009, 10:44:39 AM
"Dear Mr
 
Thank you for your recent enquiry with regard to the FA Women’s Super League.
 
The Super League will be a new League to which Clubs are currently putting together applications to join. For the first two seasons it will sit outside of the Women’s Pyramid of Football and will play in the summer months (March – October)
 
The FA Women’s Premier League will remain in place and will play across the winter as it does at present. Until we know what teams are looking to join the Super League (and where these teams currently play) we cannot decide what the constitution of the FA Women’s Premier League will be for next season. However at a recent SGM the Clubs overwhelming wished to keep three divisions in the FAWPL which therefore may run with less than 12 teams in each Division for Season 2009/2010. The Clubs will get to vote on this at their AGM in June, but if they vote to keep three divisions then the Champions of the Northern and Southern Divisions will be promoted as normal.
 
The decision on the two teams for the Women’s Champions League next season will be made by the FA Women’s Football Committee.
 
I hope this answers your queries"


Wow, so basically the Superleague will come as a strucure above the one we have now, I had always assumed the Superleague would replace the National division.  :o


Title: Re: reply from the FA
Post by: twmcat on March 27, 2009, 09:41:37 PM
"Dear Mr
 
Thank you for your recent enquiry with regard to the FA Women’s Super League.
 
The Super League will be a new League to which Clubs are currently putting together applications to join. For the first two seasons it will sit outside of the Women’s Pyramid of Football and will play in the summer months (March – October)
 
The FA Women’s Premier League will remain in place and will play across the winter as it does at present. Until we know what teams are looking to join the Super League (and where these teams currently play) we cannot decide what the constitution of the FA Women’s Premier League will be for next season. However at a recent SGM the Clubs overwhelming wished to keep three divisions in the FAWPL which therefore may run with less than 12 teams in each Division for Season 2009/2010. The Clubs will get to vote on this at their AGM in June, but if they vote to keep three divisions then the Champions of the Northern and Southern Divisions will be promoted as normal.
 
The decision on the two teams for the Women’s Champions League next season will be made by the FA Women’s Football Committee.
 
I hope this answers your queries"


Wow, so basically the Superleague will come as a strucure above the one we have now, I had always assumed the Superleague would replace the National division.  :o




I was thinking it might depend on how many current teams are selected for the new league, but nice to know they'll keep the current format as well.
But it could be a bit depleted if 8 teams get taken out, unless they do a bit of reorganising.


Btw - £20,000 might be low income where you are shlj - but I know a lot of people who'd bite your hand off for that around here ;)
The average income here is £8,000 less than the UK average, and averages are skewed by the occasional millionaire of course (not that I know many  ;D)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on March 27, 2009, 10:47:27 PM
One of the criteria for assessing the applicants is an indicative list of the squad.

Which means?  Who takes a decision as to which squad / player is better  - and how do they arrive at that answer? If Nottingham Forest were adamant that they'd pay two of their up-and-coming players £40K , who could say that Forest's opinion carries any less weight than say Arsenal opting for experienced Emma Byrne and Jane Ludlow as their two £40K recipients.

A decision is due to be made in June about successful applicants. Surely that also suggests that clubs must have submitted their current squads?

What happens when Arsenal submit their squad of seasoned internationals?  Would they then lose some players to teams not as blessed with talent - in accord with the FA's wish for a level playing field?. Probably. Maybe the six who end up with £20K would think they could double that with a move to another club. That would then snowball throughout the league, eventually ending with 16 happy players on £40K, 48 part-mollified players on £20K and a remaining squad of disgruntled players earning - Boreham Wood burgers?

Oh, I don't know. Perhaps I'm making this more convoluted than it needs to be, Perhaps the answers DO lie in that 'Be Part of Football's Future' document. If so, I'm sure someone will point them out to me.

In the meantime, I have a headache. Er, what was that number for the Samaritans again?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on March 28, 2009, 07:41:04 AM
One of the criteria for assessing the applicants is an indicative list of the squad.

Which means?  Who takes a decision as to which squad / player is better  - and how do they arrive at that answer?

I had envisaged the indicative squad list as primarily being a way of stopping somebody forming a franchise with unknown players, as had been suggested earlier, rather than there being some 'scientific formula' for deciding between the merits of recognised players.

What happens when Arsenal submit their squad of seasoned internationals?  Would they then lose some players to teams not as blessed with talent - in accord with the FA's wish for a level playing field?. Probably.

After consulting the tea leaves... I don't think there is a limit on the number of internationals at any one club, so maybe not. The application pack states that the approach to create an even league is:

The FA believes the two-fold League objectives above can be achieved by a two-pronged strategy:

• By the creation of three FA-funded career opportunities for players in each club.

• By introducing a salary cap.

So it's a question of whether Arsenal can hold onto their squad within that framework. I don't know enough about the situation to suggest an answer to that.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on March 28, 2009, 07:55:08 AM
You don't really need a scientific formula to evaluate squads just something like 5 pts for a full international player 3 pts for a Youth international and 1 point for an uncapped player and sum it. ;)

The 3 FA funded career opportunity are paid peanuts to be honest 1000 a month or 500 a month. I am sure a plyer would rather take the yearly 40 000 or more.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on March 28, 2009, 07:59:49 AM
You don't really need a scientific formula to evaluate squads just something like 5 pts for a full international player 3 pts for a Youth international and 1 point for an uncapped player and sum it. ;)

But that's A* GCSE science shlj.  :D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on March 28, 2009, 08:20:40 AM
You don't really need a scientific formula to evaluate squads just something like 5 pts for a full international player 3 pts for a Youth international and 1 point for an uncapped player and sum it. ;)

But that's A* GCSE science shlj.  :D

You do that as a 8 year old in France  ;D for example last sunday's fa cup squad :

Arsenal =   61         Everton = 53 compare this to the community shield earlier in the season
Arsenal = 72           Everton = 57
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on March 28, 2009, 10:39:28 AM
You don't really need a scientific formula to evaluate squads just something like 5 pts for a full international player 3 pts for a Youth international and 1 point for an uncapped player and sum it. ;)

But that's A* GCSE science shlj.  :D

You do that as a 8 year old in France  ;D for example last sunday's fa cup squad :

Arsenal =   61         Everton = 53 compare this to the community shield earlier in the season
Arsenal = 72           Everton = 57

At what age do you do self-deprecating humour in France?  ;D

There is a potential flaw in your point system.  ;) For instance Vicky Exley has played over 50 times for England, but has retired from international football. So at what point does a full international no longer qualify for the 5 pts.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on March 28, 2009, 01:14:06 PM
There is a potential flaw in your point system.  ;) For instance Vicky Exley has played over 50 times for England, but has retired from international football. So at what point does a full international no longer qualify for the 5 pts.
Quite true, it is not precise enough, you need to add more parameters, got an excel file with more parameters lol like 20 and I am sure as the fa do a lot on test with the players the can add more as well to compare liek the yoyo test etc
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on March 28, 2009, 01:48:44 PM
Quite true, it is not precise enough, you need to add more parameters, got an excel file with more parameters lol like 20 and I am sure as the fa do a lot on test with the players the can add more as well to compare liek the yoyo test etc

Please someone. The Samaritans' number - NOW!

Wait. I've just found a bottle of Cobra in the fridge. Belay that order.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on March 28, 2009, 01:56:45 PM
Please someone. The Samaritans' number - NOW!

Wait. I've just found a bottle of Cobra in the fridge. Belay that order.

0844 980 0380 or email super.league@TheFA.com

I am sure they will be polite enough and reply to all your questions
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on March 28, 2009, 07:14:09 PM
Fair point Shij.

I've emailed the FA - leaving out the slightly contentious 'possible under-estimation of expenditure' question.

I'll post the answers as soon as I get them.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on March 28, 2009, 11:43:48 PM
Fair point Shij.

I've emailed the FA - leaving out the slightly contentious 'possible under-estimation of expenditure' question.

I'll post the answers as soon as I get them.


I will send one then with the expenditure point and let everyone know what answer I get ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on March 30, 2009, 02:28:16 AM
This is not going off the point - honestly  ;D

A few weeks ago on Talk Sport they read an email from a guy who said that his calculations showed that Man Utd men were the best English team in history, and not Liverpool as a lot of people say.

He then proved this by assigning something like 5 pts for a Prem title, and 3 pts for a title before that, and similarly with various tournament wiins over various seasons.
My pal Adrian Durham said he didn't understand the calculations, but seemed to think it was reasonable.

But - the emailer just worked out a formula to get the answer he wanted.

For instance - I might reckon a team should get a bonus of 100 points per game if they go a season undefeated, so Arsenal would top the list. Ludicrous system, of course.
(But a nice thought, though  :D)

You don't really need a scientific formula to evaluate squads just something like 5 pts for a full international player 3 pts for a Youth international and 1 point for an uncapped player and sum it. ;)

But that's A* GCSE science shlj.  :D

You do that as a 8 year old in France  ;D for example last sunday's fa cup squad :

Arsenal =   61         Everton = 53 compare this to the community shield earlier in the season
Arsenal = 72           Everton = 57

At what age do you do self-deprecating humour in France?  ;D

At any age shlj chooses ;) :D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on March 30, 2009, 10:36:05 AM
This is not going off the point - honestly  ;D

A few weeks ago on Talk Sport they read an email from a guy who said that his calculations showed that Man Utd men were the best English team in history, and not Liverpool as a lot of people say.

He then proved this by assigning something like 5 pts for a Prem title, and 3 pts for a title before that, and similarly with various tournament wiins over various seasons.
My pal Adrian Durham said he didn't understand the calculations, but seemed to think it was reasonable.

So Arsenal hating Adrian Durham still works for them :(
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on March 30, 2009, 02:17:00 PM
Latest rumours?  Chelsea, Arsenal, Bristol Academy, Leeds Carnegie, OOH Lincoln, Sunderland....and Loughborough.  Pretty much ticks the London, south east, midlands, yorks and north east boxes nicely.
You can add team Bath to the rumours.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: redrobin on March 30, 2009, 03:28:44 PM
Latest rumours?  Chelsea, Arsenal, Bristol Academy, Leeds Carnegie, OOH Lincoln, Sunderland....and Loughborough.  Pretty much ticks the London, south east, midlands, yorks and north east boxes nicely.
You can add team Bath to the rumours.

Sounds about right - Bristol City drop support for their Premier League side, Team Bath take over and are relegated to the South West Combination where they are currently mid-table for this season. Natural candidates for the new closed shop "elite". ::)

What next - Manchester United AIG who have been such great supporters of senior women's football??
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on March 30, 2009, 05:38:15 PM
What next - Manchester United AIG who have been such great supporters of senior women's football??

It would be really good for the league to have another premiership giant represented like Man Utd.  It doesn't really matter about the lack of support in the past from them either.  This league is all about the future.

PS AIG said ages ago that they would not be renewing its shirt sponsorship deal with Manchester United.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on March 30, 2009, 11:25:04 PM
This is not going off the point - honestly  ;D

A few weeks ago on Talk Sport they read an email from a guy who said that his calculations showed that Man Utd men were the best English team in history, and not Liverpool as a lot of people say.

He then proved this by assigning something like 5 pts for a Prem title, and 3 pts for a title before that, and similarly with various tournament wiins over various seasons.
My pal Adrian Durham said he didn't understand the calculations, but seemed to think it was reasonable.

So Arsenal hating Adrian Durham still works for them :(
Afraid so - some idiots have gone, but he seems to have his pants glued to a chair by a microphone  :D

Back to points on teams applying for membership, I forgot to mention I head a rumour yesterday that Liverpool are putting in a bid supported by Liverpool FC.
This came via Evertonians who are not convinced they (Everton) will make it.

It's quite possible that Everton will win the Premiership this season now, whereas Liverpool can finish no higher than 9th, and might have ended up being relegated if the old system were kept.

Seems that the Liverpool / Everton positions may be turned totally upside down  ???
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on March 31, 2009, 11:19:38 AM
This is not going off the point - honestly  ;D

A few weeks ago on Talk Sport they read an email from a guy who said that his calculations showed that Man Utd men were the best English team in history, and not Liverpool as a lot of people say.

He then proved this by assigning something like 5 pts for a Prem title, and 3 pts for a title before that, and similarly with various tournament wiins over various seasons.
My pal Adrian Durham said he didn't understand the calculations, but seemed to think it was reasonable.

So Arsenal hating Adrian Durham still works for them :(
Afraid so - some idiots have gone, but he seems to have his pants glued to a chair by a microphone  :D

Back to points on teams applying for membership, I forgot to mention I head a rumour yesterday that Liverpool are putting in a bid supported by Liverpool FC.
This came via Evertonians who are not convinced they (Everton) will make it.

It's quite possible that Everton will win the Premiership this season now, whereas Liverpool can finish no higher than 9th, and might have ended up being relegated if the old system were kept.

Seems that the Liverpool / Everton positions may be turned totally upside down  ???

Liverpool FC is the bigger team out of the two with a bigger fanbase.  It would be good for the promotion of the league to have all the 'big 4' premer league teams represented.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on March 31, 2009, 06:50:11 PM
Liverpool FC is the bigger team out of the two with a bigger fanbase.  It would be good for the promotion of the league to have all the 'big 4' premer league teams represented.

Oh would it? until these clubs have another round of cutbacks and dump their Ladies teams...Sunderland broke links with their side only to reinstate them again how long is that going to last?  Having the so-called 'big 4' being represented didn't do much for the league before so why should be suddenly a big thing now....Everton at least have done more than most to promote the game and certainly more than Man U and Liverpool the latter of two achieving almost nothing except promotion and a County Cup win... Everton are a well recognised name with big stars and this side going on into the new league would promote it far more effectively than Johnnie come lately Man U...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on April 01, 2009, 12:53:18 AM
Liverpool FC is the bigger team out of the two with a bigger fanbase.  It would be good for the promotion of the league to have all the 'big 4' premer league teams represented.

Oh would it? until these clubs have another round of cutbacks and dump their Ladies teams...Sunderland broke links with their side only to reinstate them again how long is that going to last?  Having the so-called 'big 4' being represented didn't do much for the league before so why should be suddenly a big thing now....Everton at least have done more than most to promote the game and certainly more than Man U and Liverpool the latter of two achieving almost nothing except promotion and a County Cup win... Everton are a well recognised name with big stars and this side going on into the new league would promote it far more effectively than Johnnie come lately Man U...

I'll use Manchester United as an example. They were never an elite club so fans of the men's team were not very interested in the team. I know that because I have many friends and family who support the club and go to lots of games and that was the view of many.  They couldn't be bothered with the game for a number of reasons such as the side wasn't very good. A small number of those fans supported other clubs ranging from Fulham, Charlton, Everton and Arsenal.

The proposed structure of the new league will give the opportunity for those less established clubs to sign some of the more established players which hopefully in turn will make it less of a gap between the top and bottom sides in the division.

A successful Manchester United team would attract a significant supporter base due to the club having such huge national support and the club having one of the highest number of female season ticket holders in the premier league.

A recent statistic I read was at least one in seven season ticket holders in the premier league were held by females.  Currently the women's league is not tapping into enough of those potential fans.

The new 'super league' needs as much support from the media, sponsors and fans to make it a success. To have the biggest men's clubs represented can only benefit the league in the long run due to the extra exposure it will hep generate. Imagine the extra bit of press attention a match between say Manchster United and Liverpool would generate.

I know that a women's match broadcast on terrestrial television between Manchester United and Liverpool would attract more viewers than a match between Everton and say Birmingham City.

Manchester United and Liverpool make more profit than Everton currently do so the next round of cutbacks are more likely to take place at teams further down the league like Blackburn Rovers and Everton than at some of those 'big 4' teams.

The reason why a team like Man Utd stopped funding the team was probably because it was not generating any money so was not good for the business.  The FA are trying to make it more attractive so that it won't be a venture that would lose a club money.

I honestly wonder how many football fans in this country actually know anything about women's football.  I bet most fans don't know anything about Everton being one of the biggest names with big stars.

It is not about Arsenal, Everton and Chelsea being giants of the women's game at the moment, it is all about having 8 clubs with structures in place to give them a chance of being successful in the future.

I am only using Everton in my comment because the FA stated its wish to spread the number of teams around the country. The north west region has a number of top premier league teams.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: redrobin on April 01, 2009, 02:28:46 AM
It makes me so angry to read the arguments put forward for Man Utd and the like to come straight in to the new league without any attempt to join the pyramid and gain promotion, as any new team would be compelled to if they were in the male league pyramid. Even worse when remembering that Man U withdrew financial support from the team so that it folded.

Envious though many of us are of Arsenal's success, it's been achieved precisely because the club has consistently supported the team not only with funds but also with many other strands of support in a solid and long lasting attempt to prove themselves more than a solely male football club.

That's why they've reaped the respect of fans and casual observers and achieved their almost impregnable position in the women's game. In the absence of any significant reward or support from the FA for successful clubs in the Premier League or in the two main Cups, the imbalances between Arsenal and their league opponents has become inevitable since no-one has attempted to consistently rival their commitment. The decisions by Fulham and my own club Charlton not to try and compete with Arsenal after their players had become close challengers with the Gunners were highly regrettable but almost certainly emanate from this lack of any significant reward for success.

Although there is certainly some merit in the argument that Arsenal's internationals have not been sufficiently challenged week by week, the Premier League's extension to 12 clubs in each division has worked in my opinion. The predictability of the National Division is no worse than that in the men's game and the main examples of weakness have been the result of damage caused by off-field board room decisions.

Without FA attention to the issues facing Premier League teams and those in the Combination divisions, the growth of women's football as a mass participation sport could still falter badly. The 95% plus of clubs and players in the League structures need the upper heights of the pyramid to be far more stable than they are at present.



Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on April 01, 2009, 03:40:11 AM
It makes me so angry to read the arguments put forward for Man Utd and the like to come straight in to the new league without any attempt to join the pyramid and gain promotion, as any new team would be compelled to if they were in the male league pyramid. Even worse when remembering that Man U withdrew financial support from the team so that it folded.

Envious though many of us are of Arsenal's success, it's been achieved precisely because the club has consistently supported the team not only with funds but also with many other strands of support in a solid and long lasting attempt to prove themselves more than a solely male football club.

That's why they've reaped the respect of fans and casual observers and achieved their almost impregnable position in the women's game. In the absence of any significant reward or support from the FA for successful clubs in the Premier League or in the two main Cups, the imbalances between Arsenal and their league opponents has become inevitable since no-one has attempted to consistently rival their commitment. The decisions by Fulham and my own club Charlton not to try and compete with Arsenal after their players had become close challengers with the Gunners were highly regrettable but almost certainly emanate from this lack of any significant reward for success.

Although there is certainly some merit in the argument that Arsenal's internationals have not been sufficiently challenged week by week, the Premier League's extension to 12 clubs in each division has worked in my opinion. The predictability of the National Division is no worse than that in the men's game and the main examples of weakness have been the result of damage caused by off-field board room decisions.

Without FA attention to the issues facing Premier League teams and those in the Combination divisions, the growth of women's football as a mass participation sport could still falter badly. The 95% plus of clubs and players in the League structures need the upper heights of the pyramid to be far more stable than they are at present.

Firstly Fulham did compete with Arsenal. I remember the time when they managed to poach a couple of our best players in Spacey and Yankey when they first turned pro. They also won the league title with Arsenal finishing outside the top 2 :( and they won a number of cups.

As for your comments about clubs joining the league without having gained promotion via the football pyramid, I'd refer you right back in time to the expansion of men's league football in England.

The league was expanded a number of times in the early days with each expansion being handled differently. For example, at the end of the 1891/92 season a division two was created, instead of a whole new division being built out of clubs not previously playing the League a far more extraordinary solution was evolved, with three teams (Manchester United, Nottingham Forest and Sheffield Wednesday) coming straight into division one without having played in the League before, and one club - Darwin – being relegated from division 1 to division 2 (how could they possibly know that Manchester United was a team more deserving of a place in division 1 than Darwin who had been playing there?)  The rest of division 2 was made up newly elected teams.

I must point out that I'm not for a minute saying that it is fair that any team can go straight into the league from nowhere.  At the end of the day the league will be looking for the teams that will be able to compete at a good level in the new league. Man Utd are the richest club in the UK so it would be good if they entered a women's team for this league. I have no clue as to whether they are intending to submit an application anyway.

I disagree with you about the expansion to 12 clubs having worked for the National Division.  I do not think the country has enough top players to make a 12 club league competitive enough. That is the view I have also heard expressed by players and coaches.  It is not commonplace for the top few clubs to drop any points against the smaller clubs.  The Men's Premier League is highly competitive with statistics proving that is the case. The other year a certain team beat both Man Utd and Arsenal but still managed to go down. This season the current top 4 teams have dropped points to the teams in the bottom three. That includes defeats as well by the way. Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenl have all won the league title in recent years and Liverpool are in with a great chance of caliming it this season. The FA Cup and League Cup have been won by other teams as well.  You cannot compare that with the women's game with Arsenal winning virtually all the recent trophies.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on April 01, 2009, 12:30:23 PM
I disagree with you about the expansion to 12 clubs having worked for the National Division.  I do not think the country has enough top players to make a 12 club league competitive enough. That is the view I have also heard expressed by players and coaches.  It is not commonplace for the top few clubs to drop any points against the smaller clubs.  The Men's Premier League is highly competitive with statistics proving that is the case. The other year a certain team beat both Man Utd and Arsenal but still managed to go down. This season the current top 4 teams have dropped points to the teams in the bottom three. That includes defeats as well by the way. Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenl have all won the league title in recent years and Liverpool are in with a great chance of caliming it this season. The FA Cup and League Cup have been won by other teams as well.  You cannot compare that with the women's game with Arsenal winning virtually all the recent trophies.

That is factually correct. The Premier League's top team at the moment has only picked up 75 per cent of the total points available compared to 100 and 94 per cent respectfully for the two top placed teams in the women's league. Man Utd have failed to win 31 per cent of league matches this season. How is that comparable to the women's game?
Title: Superleague - "The fight for football equality"
Post by: Rach_83 on April 01, 2009, 03:02:44 PM
The fight for football equality

7:00am Saturday 28th March 2009

The FA has announced a new summer league to boost support for women's football. We look at the history of the women's game and talk to experts and players.


By Kate Whiting
Denis Bergkamp, Thierry Henry, Theo Walcott and Robin Van Persie are instantly recognisable as Arsenal strikers past and present, but how many will know the name Kelly Smith?

For those who don't know, Kelly scored a hat trick in Arsenal Ladies' Premier League Cup Final victory against Doncaster Rovers Belles last month.

Despite her masterful effort, there was not one column inch about her in The Sun's nine pages of football coverage. In fact, there was no mention of the game, which Arsenal won 5-0, in any of the tabloids.

You wouldn't know it from reading the papers, but football has been the most popular team sport for UK women since 2002. It's come a long way since being deemed "unsuitable" for women to play in 1921, but there's still a long way to go.

While most premiership footballers are earning a minimum of £25,000 a week, their female counterparts are lucky to earn that in a year.

Jen O'Neill, editor of UK women's football magazine Fair Game and its sister publication in the US, says the lack of attention is frustrating.

"Women in this country love football and read the sports pages, yet they can't read anything about any sport that they or their daughters compete in," she says.

The situation is much more positive in the US, where the women's game is almost on a par with the men's and the international team win most major tournaments, which fuels publicity. As a result, the US offers higher wages and arguably a higher standard of football.

Kelly Smith, like many of Britain's best players, has now been poached by the US. After four years at Arsenal, she will play for Boston Breakers along with her Arsenal teammate Alex Scott. This month sees the launch of the Women's Professional Soccer (WPS) league, which includes the Boston Breakers.

In England, the women's game remains semi-professional, with many of the top players taking on jobs for their clubs.

Arsenal captain Faye White works fulltime as a development officer for women's football at the club and says she would love more equality in the game.

"I'm based at Arsenal and I see how the men train and prepare for the games and get paid," she says.

"But I think that's a long way off and there's a long way that the game has to grow for that. But it would be great just to have even a quarter of the success of the men's game."

There are more than a million girls playing the sport or affiliated to teams today, but it was a different story when White was growing up.

"When I was 13, I realised I was actually quite good and I could compete with the boys who were actually older then me," she says.

"I was seen as a bit of a tomboy or a bit alien for wanting to play football, whereas now, girls walk along the street with their kits on, or they're out in the park playing with their friends and there are so many more younger girls teams."

The Football Association, which launched the Talent Development Plan for Girls' and Women's Football in 1997 - nearly 100 years after the first recorded women's match - is keen to capitalise on this interest. From next March, the FA is running a summer Super League to boost the creation of a nationally competitive structure for high level women's football. It also hopes to lure premiership fans during the off-season and boost publicity for the women's game.

At the launch last month FA Chairman Lord Triesman said the new league would "help support and strengthen the commercial viability and sustainability of women's football clubs" - and help define a clear path for players.

The league, which will run from March to October, will start with just eight clubs, with the plan to expand it to 12 by 2014. Clubs who join the league will be able to apply for a grant of up to £70,000 per season from The FA to put towards development activities.

White says the Super League could be the way forward for the women's game.

"It would be an ideal way of getting more people looking at the sport, either watching it on telly or coming along to the games, because the men's season won't have started," she says.

O'Neill agrees the Super League is a "revolutionary" concept, but admits some people have doubts about whether it will work - especially if our best players are crossing the pond.

"There's concern and scepticism within the game because it's such a big departure. If the men's clubs get behind it and the full force of the FA gets behind it, then it can work," she says.

"There's a concern that if you lose your big figurehead player, which Kelly Smith is at the moment, that might damage the image of a potential league here.

"That doesn't mean we can't create new stars, because there's new talent coming through all the time, but Kelly has really raised the profile of the game.

"She's one of those players that makes slightly cynical men realise that the women's game is definitely worth watching for the football. To have her play abroad maybe a bit of a blow to The FA's plans."

The England women's team, meanwhile, is going from strength to strength and helping to raise the profile of the game. Earlier this month the squad won its first international tournament, beating Canada 3-1 to win the Cyprus Cup. It has also secured a place in this summer's European Championship in Finland.

"That's a massive thing now that all the England players are going to focus on and hopefully we can go one better than the World Cup in 2007, where we got to the quarter finals," White says.

In the meantime, the FA Cup, held each year on the first bank holiday Monday in May, has become the big showcase event for the women's game.

The match regularly attracts crowds of 20,000 and has been shown on the BBC in previous years.

"It doesn't clash with anything particularly big in the men's game, so they get a good crowd and I think that has given the women's game a lot of solace," O'Neill says.

While the women's game still has a way to go in the UK to reach the dizzy heights of popularity it has in the US, O'Neill remains hopeful for the future.

"Hopefully, as time goes on there will be more people who work in the media who are a bit more accepting of diversity and trying to push more than just the men's premier league. It isn't just a women's football issue, lots of sports are trying to battle with this huge behemoth that is the premier league.

"The women's game will never catch up with the men and they will always be in the shadow of the men, but that doesn't mean that you can't create a product that people will want to go and watch."

http://www.halesowennews.co.uk/newsxtra/4229915.The_fight_for_football_equality/ (http://www.halesowennews.co.uk/newsxtra/4229915.The_fight_for_football_equality/)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on April 01, 2009, 10:56:48 PM
Well, that's that! The FA say it's been delayed till 2011, don't you believe it - it's dead in the water and quite rightly so imho. All clubs have been told to halt their applications, they certainly don't say how long they should be halted for ;)

The summer league is dead before it's even been born

Anyone know a good priest - cos I know a convoluted no promotion no relegation farce that now needs a good Christian burial. I don't often celebrate over a death but...

Let us hope that this is the last we hear of the wretched thing - I know the vast majority of clubs will breathing a huge sigh of relief, I know I am!!!

Let us hope that now the FA and those involved in this charade will consider eliciting the assistance of clubs the next time they consider a shift change as major as the summer league would have been, rather than riding roughshod over them. After all, it is the clubs that are the lifeblood of women's football, not the FA, as I think has been proved today  :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on April 01, 2009, 11:07:26 PM
The FA has taken the decision to defer the Women's Super League.
At The FA Board Meeting on Tuesday 31 March, it was reluctantly decided that the launch of The FA Women’s Super League would be deferred from the summer of 2010 to summer 2011.

The decision was reached in line with discussions as part of an ongoing review of the FA’s cost base and planned financial commitments across the organisation. This review is being undertaken as a prudent measure in the current global financial downturn to ensure that we are able to use our financial resources in the most appropriate and meaningful way.

The FA is aware that applications for the Super League are nearing submission stage and would request at this time that all clubs interested in joining the Women’s Super League put their applications on hold until further notice.


http://www.thefa.com/Leagues/WomensPremierLeague/NewsAndFeatures/2009/Womens_super_league_deferred.aspx
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on April 01, 2009, 11:10:28 PM
As we say in French , I am on my arse :o It does really reflect poorly on the FA to have prepared and rush all that Superleague process to pull it ! This is a joke seriously, someone shoul be accountable for creating that mess.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on April 01, 2009, 11:12:07 PM
Ha, they weren't going to say anything by the looks of it until later on - however it looks like someone grassed them up as it was all over rumour control including the Daily Mail website and Fulham unless I am mistaken  ;D

What a shambles!!!!
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on April 01, 2009, 11:13:20 PM
And if I may be so bold - SERVES THEM BLOODY WELL RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on April 01, 2009, 11:21:33 PM
I do think it is a good idea IF the FA work it out properly in agreements with the clubs.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on April 01, 2009, 11:35:49 PM
It was a politically fuelled scheme that was driven by people who know little about the game, but decided nevertheless that they knew better than those who have run the game as successfully as can be expected for decades, turning it into the most participated female sport in the country. They decided to sideline them, and it has now come crashing around their ears. Surprise surprise... They treated the clubs with utter disdain during the whole of this sorry affair - it is now time for these people, if they actually give a monkeys that is - to have a good look at their inner selves and ask themselves a few searching questions. After they have completed that process, they should get over their red faces and discuss with the clubs the best way forward for the women's game, and that does not include some airy fairy no promotion no relegation everyone share their player's around happy clappy lets make it look good never mind if it's not competitive crap league that wasn't going to fool anybody who knows one iota about football in England, not the USA.
Rant over  ;) :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on April 02, 2009, 12:22:47 AM
It a real shame that the new 'super league' has been delayed for a further year.  The country needed the new structure in place to help take the game to the next level.

The warnings have already come this season with a number of the elite players leaving stating that a key reason was the lack of a professional setup in place.  A number of the players stated that they would not have left had the proposed setup been in place now.  Nobody can say that a domestic league without the best domestic players can be good for the game in this country.  The top players improve the quality of the football and help to attract fans and make girls want to play the game themseleves.

Certain clubs have expressed negative views about the plans but I tend to feel that a lot of it comes down to the fact that they feel they wouldn't feature in the new setup.  Fulham certainly wouldn't with the number of elite clubs in the London/South East region.

I personally prefer to listen to the views of the elite players. So far I have heard lots of positive feedback about the prospect of this new league.

I certainly feel the FA are right to be a bit cautious to ensure the continued well-being of the game in the long term. They now have that extra bit of time to ensure that they get everything right.

I do not think the game is that successful domestically either with poor crowds and a lack of media coverage. The amount of female players playing the game is just one part of making it successful.

btw the new league would have promotion and relegation in future years under the proposals.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on April 02, 2009, 09:08:38 AM
Any such league/structure must be sustainable (in this country) in the long term - and this idea just so obviously isn't - at last I think the penny might just be dropping - however I think we've been through all this.

2011 - yeah right!
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on April 02, 2009, 09:25:58 AM
We all support the women's game, or we wouldn't be here.

I don't think there's any argument that we want more fans, TV coverage, and to see the girls earn a living out of it. God knows the potential is there.

Trouble is, this was a scheme that was ill thought-out from the start and rushed through without the clubs fully on board. How you can market a product without the support of those delivering it?

Very simply, forget expensive consultants. The FA should sit down with the 36 national clubs and TV, and discuss the best way forward for women's football.





Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on April 02, 2009, 10:07:00 AM
Any such league/structure must be sustainable (in this country) in the long term - and this idea just so obviously isn't - at last I think the penny might just be dropping - however I think we've been through all this.

2011 - yeah right!

You do not speak for every club in the football pyramid though.  I prefer to look at this at face value. I’m sure other areas of the FA’s origination will have cutbacks due to the financial situation.  I know Arsenal FC have long been supporters of a new league.  The only concern for them was certain specifics relating to how it was being done.  The country still needs a new ‘super league’.  The game clearly needs to attract more fans if it is going to grow in the long term.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on April 02, 2009, 11:14:22 AM
We all support the women's game, or we wouldn't be here.

I don't think there's any argument that we want more fans, TV coverage, and to see the girls earn a living out of it. God knows the potential is there.

Trouble is, this was a scheme that was ill thought-out from the start and rushed through without the clubs fully on board. How you can market a product without the support of those delivering it?

Very simply, forget expensive consultants. The FA should sit down with the 36 national clubs and TV, and discuss the best way forward for women's football.







Here here to that!

And no I don't pretend to speak for every club inthe pyramid -however I do feel I have quite a good handle from speaking to a vast number of reps from the various clubs, and that is reflected in what I say. However, my comments are up here to represent only one person - me  :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on April 02, 2009, 03:50:32 PM
Gee this is great news....I had some real concerns for next season as well... but maybe they can go away now and have a good think about it then come back with a better scheme that won't decimate the game....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: redrobin on April 02, 2009, 04:34:02 PM
I just hope the deferment means that they will talk with the clubs now rather than at them.

Although Premier League discussions constitutionally would have to be with just the 36 clubs, it would be a good idea if any dialogue extended to the clubs in the 4 Combination leagues too. Whilst the County League structures can hopefully look after the growth of grass roots participation, the upper levels of the pyramid are too insecure as evidenced by some of the club withdrawals this season. The actual structure of these divisions seems reasonably sensible although situations like those faced by Reading are hard to avoid when the divisions are comparatively small.

Like most fans I don't know the role of the main sponsors in all of this. Both of them Tesco and Eon seem to be pro-active in their support for grass roots activities but I'm not sure how aware they are of the organisational and financial difficulties faced by the clubs. We can be fairly sure the FA won't have told them since they clearly have no idea themselves.
 


Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on April 02, 2009, 09:29:56 PM
Ha, they weren't going to say anything by the looks of it until later on - however it looks like someone grassed them up as it was all over rumour control including the Daily Mail website and Fulham unless I am mistaken  ;D

What a shambles!!!!

For information.

The paper copy of the Daily Mail from Wednesday had one small paragraph about the decision:

The financial worries - highlighted by Sports Agenda (the name of the column) - that dominated yesterday's FA board meeting have led to the proposed launch of a women's super league being deferred for 12 months.

Today the column said:

The FA board, fearing a financial crisis, agreed this week to shove the National Football Centre into the slow lane even though it has been deemed crucial to England's future success by Fabio Capello. The earliest the Burton Centre will now be ready is late 2011 instead of 2010.

So the Super League deferment doesn't seem to be isolated and although I don't read the column regularly, I understand that the 'financial crisis' which he refers to is the TV deal the FA has with both Setanta and the ITV. Both of those companies are facing financial difficulties, and there has been many news articles about the payments they give to the FA, and whether they can be maintained or may need re-negotiating.

Both Setanta and ITV were also the broadcast partners mentioned for the Super League. So given that background I don't consider the FA's communication explaining the deferring of the league as necessarily being a 'smokescreen'.

In any case if the FA does have financial difficulties, things do not seem to bode well for women's football regardless of any future league format, because it would appear to be reliant on cash injections to assist its development. And broadcasters may be reluctant to cover any new venture too.

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on April 02, 2009, 10:05:03 PM
I understand that the 'financial crisis' which he refers to is the TV deal the FA has with both Setanta and the ITV. Both of those companies are facing financial difficulties, and there has been many news articles about the payments they give to the FA, and whether they can be maintained or may need re-negotiating.

Interesting. This from the FA's Annual Report & Accounts published April 2008:

"In March 2007, The FA announced that ITV and Setanta will be its exclusive domestic broadcast partners for the four year period beginning at the start of the 2008/09 season. The contract is worth £425m, which represents an increase of £125m over the current contract."

and from the 'Be Part of Football's Future' document for the Super League:

"Each club will be able to apply for a maximum of £70,000 per season for the 2010 and 2011 seasons to support The FA Women’s Super League and club development activities in specified areas."

So if my eight-year-old French maths and 15-year-old English GCSE skills are correct, 8 x £70,000 = £560,000. 

Regardless of possible troubles with ITV and Setanta, you wouldn't think £560K would make much of a dent in Soho Square's coffers.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on April 02, 2009, 10:20:25 PM
I wouldn't want to do the FA's accounts for them, but thanks for your 'fag packet' maths. If an organisation is looking to make savings across the board all areas need to be considered. The column in the newspaper has even mentioned the prize money for the men's FA Cup being considered for cuts too.

If Setanta goes 'belly up' the FA simply won't have those figures that you are quoting, and they will have to make savings.

PS If it's 8 clubs over 2 seasons that makes 1.12 million. Maybe you need a resit...

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on April 02, 2009, 10:35:39 PM
You give the impression that I'm having a dig at you personally BillyBoy.

Let me stress that that isn't the case. I'm not doubting your facts BB, or your conclusions.

But it seems to me that once again women's football gets Marilyn Monroe's 'fuzzy end of the lollipop.'

The FA Cup's prize money this year:
Semi-Final winners - £1,000,000 each
Semi-Final losers - £500,000 each   
Winners - £2,000,000    
Runners-up - £1,000,000

So, yep, if my resat 'fag packet' maths is correct, that's £6m. Still £4.78m more than the £1.12m the women's game would receive in two years.

Even allowing for cuts by Setanta and in next year's cup rewards, I'm guessing the costs of the women's game would still represent small change for the FA.

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on April 02, 2009, 10:45:51 PM
No worries with it idh I'm cool with it all. It's just that it is a fruitless exercise IMO comparing the money in men's football with the women's game.

I'd love a more equitable solution, but at the same time I can appreciate why the difference exists. In my opinion men's football is in demand and people will pay top money to watch it, and hence the bigger rewards given to the clubs. It is after all the draw of men's football that enables the huge TV deals to be negotiated.

I have real concerns about women's football going head to head with men's football in the winter. I'm sorry to admit to you, but I don't think it offers anything extra.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on April 02, 2009, 11:14:34 PM
I completely agree about the draw of men's football BB and the money it brings in.

However, women's football forms a fundamental part of the FA's five-year plan. While everyone knows I thought the Super League was fundamentally flawed, the fact remains that - regardless of the structure going forward - only a small fraction of the FA's coffers would be needed to make a big difference to the women's game.

As an aside, this has no doubt been linked before, but as a reminder for everyone, here's the Genesis/FA masterplan:

www.genesisconsult.com/docs/homepage/facorpstrategy.pdf

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on April 03, 2009, 08:58:46 AM
Billy Boy, The bottom line is that to the best of my knowledge up until last weekend although Genesis had 13 enquiries about the super league, only 3 applications had been forwarded to the FA. With Setanta in trouble and the FA having to make cuts, I think this was the final straw. Their big mistake, imho, was to throw their weight about,  sideline the clubs in all of this and think they could force this whole thing through against the better judgement of the majority of those involved at the sharp end with the game.

Smokescreen, we shall see, I think you'll find the term Kicked into the long grass is going to prove very appropriate here.

I know you are the greatest apologiser on behalf of the FA on here, however, how do you apologise for their actions of this week ie when this news broke, absolutey no one knew about this outside of the board rooms. I understand Genesis were in Liverpool trying to get this club and Everton to merge, so they hadn't been told, and not even our league representitives knew about this until it went up on the fa website.

My view is that now times are getting a little tougher, they have had a very good close look at the whole idea of a franchised league and realised that, as many of us have argued for a long time now, this whole venture was not going to be sustainable in the long term. Were you aware that they had planned to introduce promotion relegation in 2013 and basically replace the National Division with the Summer league then, more or less putting it back to the way it was. Talk about watering the whole thing down. When they researched the whole thing carefully enough, they found what most of us were saying was correct. We have a very difficult situation in this country regarding Women's football, simply because of the Men's game here. That's why I think the FA should be using some of it's money to subsidise the sport, which to be fair they were going to do, however they somehow came to the conclusion that this whole thing would somehow take off and be self sustaining. I'm afraid it will take generations for that to happen, and I think now they've realised this, so with the chance of a TV deal going out of the window (which I contended would never happen any way at a women's club level - super league or not) they've dropped it like a hot potato. Or I wonder if the decision of key England players to go to the US regardless of the 'forthcoming' superleague had anything to do with it, as I have always contended that this whole thing was conceived to facilitate a very small number of players and staff and bugger the rest!

Should the FA subsidise the women's game with the vast sums they have coming in from the Men's game to help the clubs that are presently doing such a good job in very difficult conditions to take the game as far as it can go - yes of course they should, but will they? I'll leave that for everyone to decide for themselves.

You may, if you wish, appologise on behalf of the FA now for their handling of this whole affair, and the unnecessary damage it has done to the game in this country, from the superleague's conception to the singleminded sidelining of the clubs, the shoddy disrespect it has shown the good people who run the game at the sharp end so far, and the way it has let everyone down this week, and frankly throughout, if you wish  ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on April 03, 2009, 09:08:38 AM
Billy Boy, The bottom line is that to the best of my knowledge up until last weekend although Genesis had 13 enquiries about the super league, only 3 applications had been forwarded to the FA. With Setanta in trouble and the FA having to make cuts, I think this was the final straw. Their big mistake, imho, was to throw their weight about,  sideline the clubs in all of this and think they could force this whole thing through against the better judgement of the majority of those involved at the sharp end with the game.

I know you are the greatest apologiser on behalf of the FA on here, however, how do you apologise for their actions of this week ie when this news broke, absolutey no one knew about this outside of the board rooms. I understand Genesis were in Liverpool trying to get this club and Everton to merge, so they hadn't been told, and not even our league representitives knew about this until it went up on the fa website.
A Merseyside franchise was making sense to be honest.
3 applications only, I was expecting a bit more, maybe the parameters set by the FA were unrealistic?
I still think womens footie has to go forward and evolve but the FA need to work with he clubs not the consultant only.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on April 03, 2009, 09:24:49 AM
I understand Genesis were in Liverpool trying to get this club and Everton to merge.

Wow. Talk about life mirroring art.

In the Scorcher comics of the early 70s, Bobby of the Blues used to play for....Everpool!
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on April 03, 2009, 01:34:33 PM
Women's Super League deferred for 12 months

The FA has taken the decision to defer the Women's Super League for 12 months.

At The FA Board Meeting on Tuesday 31 March, it was reluctantly decided that the launch of The FA Women’s Super League, scheduled to start in the summer of 2010, will now kick off in summer 2011.

The decision was reached in line with discussions as part of an ongoing review of the FA’s cost base and planned financial commitments across the organisation.

Arsenal Ladies are currently nearing the completion of their submission bid for their place in the Women’s Super League but that has been put on hold until further notice.

The Women’s Premier League will run as normal next year.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/ladies-news/women-s-super-league-deferred-for-12-months
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on April 03, 2009, 02:25:53 PM
Genesis?  God don't tell me Peter Gabriel is going to be running it....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on April 03, 2009, 04:25:06 PM
Ok Geoff, thanks for that. It is useful to receive at least some further news about what has been happening. We are of course unable to occupy your unique position in this.

I would like to point out to you however that I certainly haven't been trying to apologise for the FA this week or any other week for that matter, although I do like balanced informed discussions. I've only been trying to find out more information and have questioned some of the things that have been said on here in the past from a number of members, and I'd like to think with some success. I've no intention of going over them all again.

With regards to the announcement this week I do have to admit that I'm not so sure there is the malice in the handling of it that you seem to think there is. I know from my own experience of working within a large organisation that communications can break down, but there is not necessarily any intent to deceive people. It must be difficult for the FA to stop all information from reaching the press as happened here, and from what you say even Genesis were unaware.

On a slightly different note. I do find it slightly scary that you view the future of women's football in England as being dependent on subsidies, without TV coverage, presumably stripped of its best players and requiring generations to develop. I hope you don't mind me suggesting that I hope you have it wrong.  ;)

Have a good weekend...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on April 03, 2009, 04:28:32 PM
Genesis?  God don't tell me Peter Gabriel is going to be running it....

Better Peter Gabriel than Phil Collins.

Gabriel has musical integrity, which I am sure would carry through to negotiations with the FA and clubs.

Collins would just fax everyone and tell them they're dumped.  ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on April 03, 2009, 04:58:49 PM
Women's Super League deferred for 12 months

The FA has taken the decision to defer the Women's Super League for 12 months.

At The FA Board Meeting on Tuesday 31 March, it was reluctantly decided that the launch of The FA Women’s Super League, scheduled to start in the summer of 2010, will now kick off in summer 2011.

The decision was reached in line with discussions as part of an ongoing review of the FA’s cost base and planned financial commitments across the organisation.

Arsenal Ladies are currently nearing the completion of their submission bid for their place in the Women’s Super League but that has been put on hold until further notice.

The Women’s Premier League will run as normal next year.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/ladies-news/women-s-super-league-deferred-for-12-months

I think this is in line with - and a good interpretation of - a bland email sent by the league to all wpl clubs yesterday if I remember correctly regurgitating with regret the FA's announcement on their website.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on April 03, 2009, 05:02:08 PM
Ok Geoff, thanks for that. It is useful to receive at least some further news about what has been happening. We are of course unable to occupy your unique position in this.

I would like to point out to you however that I certainly haven't been trying to apologise for the FA this week or any other week for that matter, although I do like balanced informed discussions. I've only been trying to find out more information and have questioned some of the things that have been said on here in the past from a number of members, and I'd like to think with some success. I've no intention of going over them all again.

With regards to the announcement this week I do have to admit that I'm not so sure there is the malice in the handling of it that you seem to think there is. I know from my own experience of working within a large organisation that communications can break down, but there is not necessarily any intent to deceive people. It must be difficult for the FA to stop all information from reaching the press as happened here, and from what you say even Genesis were unaware.

On a slightly different note. I do find it slightly scary that you view the future of women's football in England as being dependent on subsidies, without TV coverage, presumably stripped of its best players and requiring generations to develop. I hope you don't mind me suggesting that I hope you have it wrong.  ;)

Have a good weekend...

No problem BB, it's just that most of us haven't got the time or the will to plough through your life-consuming quote unquote explanations and counter arguments on the minuteae, comparatives with other sports, theories and arguments drawn from the intricate detail of FA spin and unspin that goes up both on the web and in the papers. What I've decided to do now is not bother trying to deceminate all this with you, rather let you have the last word you so desperately crave, wait till it all goes titsup then just say I told you so. It's so much easier that way, and allows me to time to earn a living so that my children don't suffer from rickets ;)

I don't think there was malice, just absolute incompetance - which is a good reflection of how this whole affair has been run.

On your final point, alas and unfortunately, being the realist I am, I think I've got it right. A shame I know, but there you are... It's different in the US, and a few other places, but here I'm afraid it's going to take a while. This is still a very young sport in this country, it needs to be given time and nurtured properly, and not try to run before it can walk. I would like to think I'm wrong on that point, but I don't think I am... As I've stressed all along, build from the bottom up and you will have a good foundation, build from the top down and everything will come crumbling down around your ears.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on April 04, 2009, 01:35:56 AM
Even the very male dominated Cricket ECB (England and Wales Cricket Board), who didn't even allow females as members until 10 years or so ago at Lords, have seen Wisden select Claire Taylor as "Player of the Year".

She is the first female to be selected, and it was not just because of England's WC win apparently.

Yet, a couple of years ago, the Beeb selected the England RU team as team of the year, despite them winning nothing, whereas Arsenal ladies won an unprecedented quadruple, which included the Uefa Cup - the equivalent of the the men's Champion's League.

The Times today had a good article about women's cricket - but I wish they had one about women's footy :(

Btw - look at http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/article6024553.ece if you like ;)



Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on April 04, 2009, 07:36:29 AM
Even the very male dominated Cricket ECB (England and Wales Cricket Board), who didn't even allow females as members until 10 years or so ago at Lords, have seen Wisden select Claire Taylor as "Player of the Year".

She is the first female to be selected, and it was not just because of England's WC win apparently.

Yet, a couple of years ago, the Beeb selected the England RU team as team of the year, despite them winning nothing, whereas Arsenal ladies won an unprecedented quadruple, which included the Uefa Cup - the equivalent of the the men's Champion's League.

The BBC were not actually on the judging panel for the Team of the Year award.

A couple of awards that women's football might have nominations in are Coach of the Year and Team of the Year.

The judging panel for both awards consists of: Lord Sebastian Coe, Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson, Sir Trevor Brooking, Clare Balding, Alan Hansen, Greg Rusedski, Nick Faldo, David Coulthard, Sir Steve Redgrave, Dame Kelly Holmes, Jonathan Davies, Barry McGuigan.

The Coach of the Year is judged on who has made the biggest impact in British sport.
The 12 sporting greats listed above decide the winner by voting for their top 1-2-3.
The judging panel was given a review of the year by the Sports Personality production team which highlights the main contenders but they were still open to vote for anyone of their choice that fits the criteria.
They had until 22 November to make its decision.
Three points will be awarded for first place, two points for second place, one point for third place. The winner is the selection with the most points.
In the unlikely event that they had a tie, the selection with the most first places would be named the winner.

The Team of the Year is limited to the (British only) team that has achieved the most notable performance in British sport.
It was judged as per Coach of the Year process.

25% of the panel were female.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on April 04, 2009, 12:13:40 PM
The way I see this is the FA took a gamble by saying to the clubs :  this is it, take it or leave it.
The only problem with this strategy is most clubs said leave it.

I do believe girls becoming pro is the way forward, I also  think the winter season has some flaws like finishing very early. In France we play at amateur and womens footie level till mid june ( school holidays start in June at secondary schools, I remember being off for my birthday which is 11th of June ) with a small winter break of 2 weeks and no midweek games as a general rule. Could the season be extended here ?

I really hope the FA will have a rethink sit at the same table as the club as discuss the way forward in a professional and intelligent manner for the good of the game.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on April 04, 2009, 12:24:52 PM
The way I see this is the FA took a gamble by saying to the clubs :  this is it, take it or leave it.
The only problem with this strategy is most clubs said leave it.

That is pure speculation. The deadline for submissions had not passed so clubs were probably still completing the submission forms. Arsenal confirmed that was the case with them.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on April 04, 2009, 12:36:39 PM
My view is that a tv deal of some description was vital to this scheme going ahead,and when the fa were eventually unable to get it on the screen, at least for the foreseeable future, the powers that be (not the organisers and conceivers of the idea) decided to set the whole thing aside, I've no proof of that however that is my gut feeling.

There were 10 letters of interest over and above the 3 applications that were in as I understand it - they might have scraped together some more clubs, however they did say that they would be prepared to go ahead with the league with 6 clubs if they couldn't get 8, which suggests to me they were having trouble finding enough interest. But that too is speculation... (letters if interest do not = a definate intent to apply)

I agree with our French friend "I really hope the FA will have a rethink sit at the same table as the club as discuss the way forward in a professional and intelligent manner for the good of the game" - it would be nice to think that they might be able to put just a little of the money they were intending to squander on the other project to inject some new life into the game at a club level in the WPL. Or alternatively, sit down with the clubs, see what they might like, such as investments in new grounds/groundshare and infrastructure in order that clubs with these facilities can live the dream of playing in the summer (in a sustainable and self-supporting way) - just shooting from the hip here...

If they did want to talk with us, I'm sure everyone would listen - so far all that has happened is some egos decided that the Superleague would happen with or without the consent of anybody except themselves, and they rode roughshod over everyone and everyone elses opinion who didn't see it their way. And the spin spin spin that came from the FA, trying to convince the world that en mass we were supportive of the idea was disgraceful. The lesson that has to be learned from all this is the opinion of people who have been in the game for decades and know it inside out do count, and should not just be ignored or indeed plagaurised and twisted inside out to bolster an idea which they were originally designed to oppose. Consultation should mean consultation, not the pretence of it then do what you want anyway.

A good litmus test for any future ideas may be to get the clubs to vote on any new proposals the FA may decide to table - they were going to give us the chance last time until they found that most of us were opposed, then withdrew the vote rather than the idea. Any new proposals that manage to get past the filter of a league vote will obviously have the support of the majority and have a much greater chance of success. At least then we'd all be in it together, with ideas help  and encouragement given freely rather than a huge majority dancing in the streets with glee if it falls flat on it's face. It's called democracy - but I'm not so sure that some people out there actually grasp that particular concept! Another rant over  ::)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on April 04, 2009, 09:20:31 PM
The way I see this is the FA took a gamble by saying to the clubs :  this is it, take it or leave it.
The only problem with this strategy is most clubs said leave it.

That is pure speculation. The deadline for submissions had not passed so clubs were probably still completing the submission forms. Arsenal confirmed that was the case with them.

Maybe I am wrong and the clubs were fully backing the Superleague  ???
In that case if the financial problem is the reason behind the postponement, it makes does not reflect well on the FA to build up such a project and pull the plug. I mean, the worldwide financial  crisis has been around for a few month now.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on April 05, 2009, 01:59:43 AM
Even the very male dominated Cricket ECB (England and Wales Cricket Board), who didn't even allow females as members until 10 years or so ago at Lords, have seen Wisden select Claire Taylor as "Player of the Year".

She is the first female to be selected, and it was not just because of England's WC win apparently.

Yet, a couple of years ago, the Beeb selected the England RU team as team of the year, despite them winning nothing, whereas Arsenal ladies won an unprecedented quadruple, which included the Uefa Cup - the equivalent of the the men's Champion's League.

The BBC were not actually on the judging panel for the Team of the Year award.

A couple of awards that women's football might have nominations in are Coach of the Year and Team of the Year.

The judging panel for both awards consists of: Lord Sebastian Coe, Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson, Sir Trevor Brooking, Clare Balding, Alan Hansen, Greg Rusedski, Nick Faldo, David Coulthard, Sir Steve Redgrave, Dame Kelly Holmes, Jonathan Davies, Barry McGuigan.

The Coach of the Year is judged on who has made the biggest impact in British sport.
The 12 sporting greats listed above decide the winner by voting for their top 1-2-3.
The judging panel was given a review of the year by the Sports Personality production team which highlights the main contenders but they were still open to vote for anyone of their choice that fits the criteria.
They had until 22 November to make its decision.
Three points will be awarded for first place, two points for second place, one point for third place. The winner is the selection with the most points.
In the unlikely event that they had a tie, the selection with the most first places would be named the winner.

The Team of the Year is limited to the (British only) team that has achieved the most notable performance in British sport.
It was judged as per Coach of the Year process.

25% of the panel were female.

Sorry John - missed that.

Just 2 footballers, and both male :(

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on April 06, 2009, 09:47:30 AM
Anger at delay of women's summer Super League


Tony Leighton
The Guardian, Monday 6 April 2009

The Football Association has deferred the start of its summer Super League by a year to 2011, a decision roundly condemned in the women's game. "The decision was reached," read an FA statement, "as part of an ongoing review of the FA's cost base and planned financial commitments," adding that the review had been undertaken as "a prudent measure in the current global financial downturn". The statement has cut little ice within the women's game, since in 2000 the FA also failed to deliver a pledge to form a professional league in 2003.Sue Tibballs, the Women's Sport and Fitness Foundation's chief executive, said: "If anybody wanted a clear indication of the FA's regard for women's football, this is it. They were looking at their budgets to see what they could cut and women's football was an easy option. You have to question their fitness to run the women's game."

The Bristol Academy manager Gary Green, whose club was hopeful of being one of the eight inaugural members of the Super League, said: "It's another kick in the teeth for the women's game. I understand the bad economic situation, but that's been going on for quite a while so you have to wonder if the plans were ever in place." There is as yet no guarantee that the Super League will now commence in 2011, the FA refusing to expand on their initial statement. "There will be no further comment at this time," said the FA spokesman Johann Alexander."The whole situation is shambolic," said the Blackburn Rovers secretary Gemma Donnelly. "We believed women's football had worked its way up the priority list, but we are now back at the bottom."

The one note of comfort for clubs aiming to become members of the new league is the extra time they now have to put their bids together. "The deadline for handing in the bid documents was only three weeks away," said the Sunderland chairman Maurice Alderson. "That was too tight, but it's typical FA - they were trying to rush things through instead of giving themselves a realistic time scale."

The Professional Footballers Association are confident that the issue of central contracts for the England squad will not be affected. But referring to the summer league's deferment, the PFA's Head of Equalities, Simone Pound, said: "Having seen a false dawn before (2000-2003) we are very disappointed in this latest development."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/apr/06/womens-football-super-league-fa
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on April 06, 2009, 10:01:10 AM
And here's the Lincolnshire Echo's take on it following an interview with me. It went in Saturday's paper...

http://sportsecho.co.uk/football/ooh_lincoln_ladies/news_and_reports/displayarticle.php?ID=6821
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on April 06, 2009, 01:12:32 PM
And here is the view of the most successful coach in the women’s game...

The FA board’s unexpected move last week to postpone the start of their women’s summer Super League scheduled for 2010 by a year has caused serious unrest - especially as it came as a total surprise to the FA committee organising the competition. Vic Akers, manager of the all-conquering Arsenal Ladies team, said: ‘This will do nothing for progressing the game in this country. The teams were finalising their plans and now don’t know where they stand.’

Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-1167887/Charles-Sale-Umbro-delight-snare-Fabio.html

Charles Sale's Daily Mail column, last updated at 12:31 AM on 06th April 2009
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on April 06, 2009, 02:35:35 PM
Vic is right of course - every club in the WPL had made their plans, including Lincoln, thinking that it was a done deal and now everything is up in the air. It is hugely unsettling for everyone, however those who had already finalised their plans for inclusion in the new summer league, and supported it in the end, must be suffering most of all. This is certainly a no-win no-win situation - however I take this way beyond last week, all the way back to day one...

Many though - I can assure you - especially those who had no intention of joining the summer league and who felt their clubs would have been alienated, will be very happy!

However, this alienation would have only lasted 2 years as that part of the structure had been watered down, as promotion relegation would have been introduced in 2013 (said the FA), however, I just don't see how clubs being promoted were supposed to make the transition to summer football without carrying straight on from the previous winter league to summer without a break - which makes me suspicious about the validity of that promise -hmmmmmmm I just can't seem to have faith in anything that comes out of that organisation at the moment.

In the Guardian it even questions whether or not the FA is the most suitable organisation to run Women's football - under the circumstances I reckon it's a valid question!
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on April 07, 2009, 03:30:43 PM
But not as bad as it could have been....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on April 07, 2009, 11:40:45 PM
But not as bad as it could have been....

I suppose the FA are marginally more likely to run it better than MPs are  :D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on April 09, 2009, 11:28:28 AM
Lord Triesman has kindly written to the clubs, apologising for the whole state of affairs as they are at the moment, with an explanation as to why the superleague plus other projects have been put on hold.

He also apologised for the way in which the news broke in the Daily Mail following the decision on Tuesday 31st April.

It does however strike me as a huge coincidence that the decision to make all these cuts and the news of all these cuts, nonemoreso than the Superleague, were made and then leaked to the press on the day before, and to appear in the press on the day of, Englands (men's) biggest game in months - the world cup qualifier. If I were a suspicious person... nah, they surely wouldn't do that would they????
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on April 09, 2009, 11:31:24 AM
Lord Triesman has kindly written to the clubs, apologising for the whole state of affairs as they are at the moment, with an explanation as to why the superleague plus other projects have been put on hold.

He also apologised for the way in which the news broke in the Daily Mail following the decision on Tuesday 31st April.

It does however strike me as a huge coincidence that the decision to make all these cuts and the news of all these cuts, nonemoreso than the Superleague, were made and leaked to the press on the day before, and to appear in the press on the day of, Englands (men's) biggest game in months - the world cup qualifier. If I were a suspicious person... nah, they surely wouldn't do that would they????

Its common practace to use a big event to bury bad news.......
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on April 09, 2009, 11:40:55 AM
Lord Triesman has kindly written to the clubs, apologising for the whole state of affairs as they are at the moment, with an explanation as to why the superleague plus other projects have been put on hold.

He also apologised for the way in which the news broke in the Daily Mail following the decision on Tuesday 31st April.

It does however strike me as a huge coincidence that the decision to make all these cuts and the news of all these cuts, nonemoreso than the Superleague, were made and leaked to the press on the day before, and to appear in the press on the day of, Englands (men's) biggest game in months - the world cup qualifier. If I were a suspicious person... nah, they surely wouldn't do that would they????

Its common practace to use a big event to bury bad news.......

Well, Lord Triesman said in his letter he deplores the way in which the news broke - so he can't have know about it I suppose...  8)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on April 09, 2009, 11:58:45 AM
Its common practace to use a big event to bury bad news.......
Well, Lord Triesman said in his letter he deplores the way in which the news broke - so he can't have know about it I suppose...  8)
Oh well, not the first and last time something will have gone wrong  ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on April 09, 2009, 01:16:03 PM
Womens' football was dealt another blow this week as the FA announced that the proposed summer Super League will now not begin in 2010 but has been provisionally pushed back to 2011.

This decision has been blamed on the global economy which comes across as a convenient excuse. It's hard to see how the global economy is really affecting football at the top levels.

Of course serious mis-management can always affect the viability of any concern and the FA has overseen the shambolic building of a new stadium recently as well as throwing good money after bad at a couple of mediocre/incompetent England managers so they might well have to tighten their belts.

I don't know how much money is actually needed to provide womens' football with a sound basis but you can only assume it is a drop in the ocean compared with the figures which continue to be thrown at the mens' game from every direction.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of this decision by the FA, however, the real shame is in the way this process has been handled from start to finish.

From the moment this idea was introduced by the FA as the way forward to a bright new future for womens' football we have received nothing but grandiose soundbites about sketchy plans and ideas.

Sift through the self promotion and hype and there has been nothing resembling a comprehendable plan of attack or a recognisable vision for the future.

Information has been sporadic and, when offered, it has given the impression that it was the result of the FA feeling it had to put out a message rather than that it actually had a message to give.

Clubs have been kept in the dark and then called to meetings from which they learned nothing of consequence and were then told to prepare bids to join the proposed league only to be told, a couple of weeks later, that the league wasn't actually going to happen.

The FA, if it indulges in soul searching or internal reviews, will doubtless find absolutely nothing to reproach themselves with in their handling of this affair but to everyone else it smacks of incompetence from start to finish.

Well, I say finish but in point of fact we're simply back where we started from.

Now the clubs are faced with preparing financially for another season, always a nervous time, with the goalposts having been moved at the last moment.

I suppose it's grimly ironic that if you go onto the FA's website for information about this decision you find the few paragraphs granted to it, in which the clubs are told to "put their applications on hold until further notice", right next to a link headed "RESPECT".

R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Find out what it means to the FA if you can.

No sign of an apology or a sign of regret that the clubs have been sent on a prolonged wild goose chase. No sign of any respect whatsoever, really.

Meanwhile the WPS has got under way in America to a bright start. Marta has grabbed the headlines by scoring two goals as her side, LA Sol, have recorded two wins out of two and the five English participants have all been in action.

Not surprisingly Kelly Smith has made the biggest impression. Smith gave a fine display and scored in the Boston Breakers' opening game although they ended up defeated 2-1 by FC Gold Pride.

Alex Scott also played in that game and was unable to stop her winger scoring a last minute winner although she was not personally at fault as Boston found themselves stretched at the back following a swift counter attack.

Anita Asante featured for Sky Blue FC as they lost to Marta's brace while Karen Carney and Eni Aluko went head to head as Chicago Red Stars faced St Louis Athletica.

Carney's Chicago won that one by the only goal and she sparkled in patches while Aluko was unable to make an impression, despite her team having most of the play, and was subbed off in the closing stages.

With the sun shining, crowds of 5-6000 and television cameras in attendance it's the stuff of dreams for the FA. Whether the league will sustain itself long term, however, remains a matter for conjecture but we have to hope that it does.

If a professional league establishes itself in the States then it will be good for womens' football throughout the world in helping to confirm its' credibility and marketability.

Personally I think the most obvious positive of the WPS over the standard fare on offer in our own National Premier League, from the action so far, is the state of the pitches.

Lush, level, grassy playing surfaces obviously encourage good football. Even Marta wouldn't fancy the bare, bone hard, windswept parks that our top players are faced with week in and week out.

source: football-england.com
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: october74uk on April 09, 2009, 01:28:34 PM
Good article. I agree with the playing conditions difference between England and the USA. The pitches & facillities are in excellent conditon.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on April 09, 2009, 01:30:51 PM
This decision has been blamed on the global economy which comes across as a convenient excuse. It's hard to see how the global economy is really affecting football at the top levels.

Of course serious mis-management can always affect the viability of any concern and the FA has overseen the shambolic building of a new stadium recently as well as throwing good money after bad at a couple of mediocre/incompetent England managers so they might well have to tighten their belts.

I don't know how much money is actually needed to provide womens' football with a sound basis but you can only assume it is a drop in the ocean compared with the figures which continue to be thrown at the mens' game from every direction.

Football was never going to be immune from the current economic downturn.  The downturn has had far-reaching consequences for people and businesses across the globe and the experts always said the economic situation will affect the game as the vast amount of wealth in football would not insulate football from a recession.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on April 09, 2009, 02:45:54 PM
What an excellent article - I think it hits the target spot on!

For the forseeable future imho England's best players should go to America, certainly if they want to earn a living from the game.

There is a popularity for the sport over there that will take generations to build in this country - it's no one's fault, except maybe those buffoons who banned the sport here all those decades ago, which has enabled the men's game to take a stranglehold the women's game might never break. It's just a fact, and those of us in the game who are realistic will endevour to make the best of what we've got and build on that the best we can. It would be nice if the FA might realise this and work WITH the clubs to that end... Just my opinion...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on April 09, 2009, 02:55:08 PM
Thought for the day...

Interestingly, I've just had a chat with a hugely influential person to do with women's football, and they reckon, having spoken to just about every club in the WPL, that around 20 of the 36 clubs in the WPL would welcome the chance of another large organisation that would be more concerned about the Women's game to step in and take the running of the league over from the FA. Sorry I can't mention any names, however trust me on this one...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on April 09, 2009, 03:24:47 PM
That is an interesting point, do you mean doing the equivalent of what happened with the men in 1992 ?
The deal was obviously backed by the TV funds and the same would need to happen then, albeit on a different scale.

For the forseeable future imho England's best players should go to America, certainly if they want to earn a living from the game.

I am not sure many England players could go and play there, even with the expansion of the League in 2010. Teams over there have a limited amounts of "foreign players" they can have. I would also think, they would recruit special players  only ( Williams spring to mind ), because they already have a fair bit of local talent. 
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: cardy on April 09, 2009, 04:48:31 PM
Perhaps it will be interesting to see which players go to the US for the W League.  Some of these clubs are affiliated to Pro League clubs and you can be sure the players will be watched while they are over there.  The League will start some time in May so  we will see who goes over there.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on April 09, 2009, 05:12:21 PM
Quite true, the regular seasons there starts on the 9th of May and ends 19th of July and the play off finish in early August
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: marko1301 on April 09, 2009, 07:42:15 PM
Quote
Interestingly, I've just had a chat with a hugely influential person to do with women's football, and they reckon, having spoken to just about every club in the WPL, that around 20 of the 36 clubs in the WPL would welcome the chance of another large organisation that would be more concerned about the Women's game to step in and take the running of the league over from the FA. Sorry I can't mention any names, however trust me on this one...

Of course that other organisation will be WPS (US) and they are looking to incorporate the top 6 teams from Europe to play alternatively on both sides of the pond. Arsenal; Umea; Bayern and three Euro Allstars teams. T

Of course I'm making it up but hey its no less removred from reality than other ideas.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: marko1301 on April 09, 2009, 07:47:54 PM
Quote
Interestingly, I've just had a chat with a hugely influential person to do with women's football, and they reckon, having spoken to just about every club in the WPL, that around 20 of the 36 clubs in the WPL would welcome the chance of another large organisation that would be more concerned about the Women's game to step in and take the running of the league over from the FA. Sorry I can't mention any names, however trust me on this one...

Of course that other organisation will be WPS (US) and they are looking to incorporate the top 6 teams from Europe to play alternatively on both sides of the pond. Arsenal; Umea; Bayern and three Euro Allstars teams. This would make the league 14 teams in 2011.

Of course I'm making it up but hey its no less removed from reality than other ideas recently floated - and of course the plan can be pulled at the 11th hour should it turn out to be a nonsense.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on April 09, 2009, 07:53:19 PM
Of course that other organisation will be WPS (US) and they are looking to incorporate the top 6 teams from Europe to play alternatively on both sides of the pond. Arsenal; Umea; Bayern and three Euro Allstars teams. This would make the league 14 teams in 2011.

Of course I'm making it up but hey its no less removed from reality than other ideas recently floated - and of course the plan can be pulled at the 11th hour should it turn out to be a nonsense.
Actually this is a good idea a super championship across the pond WPS team + Umea  + Arsenal + OL + Frankfurt + Bayern + Barcelona a couple European teams. It is the way forward, maybe in 10,20 years ? 
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on April 09, 2009, 10:44:31 PM
Of course that other organisation will be WPS (US) and they are looking to incorporate the top 6 teams from Europe to play alternatively on both sides of the pond. Arsenal; Umea; Bayern and three Euro Allstars teams. This would make the league 14 teams in 2011.

Of course I'm making it up but hey its no less removed from reality than other ideas recently floated - and of course the plan can be pulled at the 11th hour should it turn out to be a nonsense.
Actually this is a good idea a super championship across the pond WPS team + Umea  + Arsenal + OL + Frankfurt + Bayern + Barcelona a couple European teams. It is the way forward, maybe in 10,20 years ? 
And you'd go to home and away games as usual  :D

It might be a good thing in general that this Super League is not going to be running.

I don't suppose many of you have looked at the Welsh version of it that's due to start.
I don't know the full story, but they seem to be having a "National" league (run by Welsh FA) that's going to run alongside the normal regional leagues, which are fairly small.
EG - North Wales league had 7 teams this year (one dropped out after last season), and 2 were supposed to play in Welsh National league next season.
I'd have supposed it would be the top team (Caernarfon) and next best (Colwyn Bay - who usually have the use of the men's ground, which isn't bad at all, although the men play in an English league).
But - apparently Colwyn Bay were deducted 3 points for not being able to field a team for a game. Bay reckoned players were ill, league thought they weren't.
So, instead of Colwyn Bay joining Caernarfon as the N Wales reps next season, Bay were demoted, and next best - Wrexham - were included.
They named 2 reserves in case anything went wrong - Kinmel Bay (who, at the time had a recoerd of P5 L5) then Colwyn Bay.
Since then, the Bay have broken up, have only 8 registered players and have now dropped out of the North Wales league this season, apparently.

The league have teams lined up to replace them next season, but it just shows how a team can go from being on verge of "Super" league to go non-existent in a flash.

Maybe it wouldn't have been so bad with the English set-up, but........  ::)


Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on April 10, 2009, 04:01:34 PM
For the forseeable future imho England's best players should go to America, certainly if they want to earn a living from the game.

That would be one of the worst things to ever happen to English football. It would reduce the quality of football played domestically and attract even less fans and less exposure to the game will mean less players in the long term.

Interestingly, I've just had a chat with a hugely influential person to do with women's football, and they reckon, having spoken to just about every club in the WPL, that around 20 of the 36 clubs in the WPL would welcome the chance of another large organisation that would be more concerned about the Women's game to step in and take the running of the league over from the FA. Sorry I can't mention any names, however trust me on this one...

I don't think that is a big enough majority to draw much from it.  I would have expected more than 56% considering the recent bad news.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on April 11, 2009, 02:29:51 AM
England striker KELLY SMITH writes the first of a new weekly column for Sportsmail Online

I'm disappointed that the new women's Super League in England has been put off for a year. They were going to introduce a summer league of eight teams and everyone on the women's side have been working so hard to push the game and get this up and running - because that's what the game needs.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1169074/KELLY-SMITH-Im-missing-England--Ill-cheering-Arsenal-way-Boston.html
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on April 13, 2009, 11:51:38 AM
Yeah, I know, and thats from a player that went to the US before the Summerleague was kicked into touch, not that I blame her for what they are able to pay her. I think what the papers need to do is get a few quotes from players that aren't actually in the England set up and see what they say... It is they that form the backbone of the sport after all, not the few that Hope Powell chooses to represent the country

I wonder how much support the men's game lost when David Beckham decided to play in the US, just a thought  ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on April 13, 2009, 01:53:23 PM
Yeah, I know, and thats from a player that went to the US before the Summerleague was kicked into touch, not that I blame her for what they are able to pay her. I think what the papers need to do is get a few quotes from players that aren't actually in the England set up and see what they say... It is they that form the backbone of the sport after all, not the few that Hope Powell chooses to represent the country

I wonder how much support the men's game lost when David Beckham decided to play in the US, just a thought  ;)


In each matchday programme between now and the season's end, a different member of the Arsenal Ladies squad or coaching staff will be guest-writing for us. To kick things off, take it away Kelly Smith...

There has been a lot of speculation about the future of various players at the Club, with myself and a few others having been named as draft picks in the new American league.  I have nothing to really report – I’m still an Arsenal player and employee.  I have spoken to Boston Breakers, and Vic knows that – there’s been contact just to see what the franchise is about and what kind of money they can offer, because it will be a professional league and you won’t need to have a job alongside your football duties as I currently do at Arsenal.  I thoroughly enjoyed my time in the US when I played there earlier in my career, but I haven’t yet decided where my future lies.  I’m just enjoying playing and training at Arsenal and I’m happy here, so there’s nothing else to say at the moment.  We’re still waiting to hear more about the new English setup, which might help inform some decisions.  We knew a while ago that central contracts were coming into play, but little has been said since about what this might entail.  While American clubs have been in contact, we haven’t heard much from the FA – so you wonder whether you are going to be given a contract, and whether they really want to keep their best players in England if they haven’t approached them.  It would just be nice to be told the situation, even if it’s that there is not enough information at the moment and they’ll know more at a certain time.

Source: Arsenal Official matchday programme v Wigan Athletic. Saturday, December 6, 2008

Kelly Smith, Karen Carney and Alex Scott all said they probably wouldn't have left England had the superleague already been in place so the views of those elite players are very relevant to the discussion.

I think the most important views are those expressed by the small set of elite players in this country. They are the players that fans turn up wanting to see.

I don't understand your reference to David Beckham. The men's English league is a well established setup with many stars in all the teams so the loss of certain players won't dent the huge following. The women's brand is less established so it needs to have all the best domestic talents available to attract the following. Arsenal have attracted huge gates for away games in the past simple due to the stars on show.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on April 13, 2009, 04:37:27 PM
I would not be impudent enough to try to second guess Ms Smith's reason's for going to the US, however what I will say is that the FA had made everything that they intended to do very clear before she made the - in hindsight - very wise choice of going to the US - and I for one wouldn't have blamed her one bit even if our superleague had gone ahead without her!

 :) Im not going to get into a titfortat with you over this, we all have our differing opinions, that's football! however I must say I don't think I said anything about any players opinion not be relevent to the discussion - it would just be nice if some of the other players were able to voice their opinion's in the public forum too - to give a more rounded and balanced feel to the discussion - as I can assure you there are many players against the whole franchise league idea. And I must disagree with you - I definately don't think the elite players hold the most important opinions in all this, they represent only a very select few in this country. Their opinions count for a lot, but not the majority IMHO. Yes Arsenal have drawn big crowds, but I think that's down to ongoing success rather than personalities, especially in Women's football. We've had 2,000 plus crowds come to see us play at Sincil Bank in the past, let alone the 3,000 when we played Arsenal, but that's not been because of individual players, it's been the occasion and the success of the team that has drawn people to those games. I'm not too convinced about how many run of the mill fans of the English men's game actually know who Kelly Smith is - obviously a fair number do, but in general terms, I don't think it's a phenominal amount. There you go, nuff said on the subject from me...  lets hope we can get some summer football going without all the baggage that went with the last attempt :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: october74uk on April 13, 2009, 05:55:39 PM
It's a a shame nothing is going to be done till 2011. I wouldn't blame any player wanting to go overseas to be a professional player. Whether its America, Sweden or Germany. You can't sit around and wait forever.This summer league here has been touted around for years. It was only when they learned that the WPS is a go(after many postponements) & English players could possibly go did the FA spring into action.

The WPS scouts will be out in force during Euro 09 there's a possibility of some more of the English players being approached if they do well.Whether they go or not is up to them but at least they will have had a choice which they didn't really have before.

With Smith i think it was more than money for her...yes the money is a great incentive but with her being ultra competiveness and wants to be the best she wanted to see how she would measure up directly against the best. She had it easy at Arsenal.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on April 13, 2009, 11:27:46 PM


Kelly Smith, Karen Carney and Alex Scott all said they probably wouldn't have left England had the superleague already been in place so the views of those elite players are very relevant to the discussion.

I think the most important views are those expressed by the small set of elite players in this country. They are the players that fans turn up wanting to see.

I don't understand your reference to David Beckham. The men's English league is a well established setup with many stars in all the teams so the loss of certain players won't dent the huge following. The women's brand is less established so it needs to have all the best domestic talents available to attract the following. Arsenal have attracted huge gates for away games in the past simple due to the stars on show.

All these players left even though the Super League was supposedly done and dusted for 2010.
If they really wanted to stay here, what was their problem?

OK - their problem would have been that the new league is postponed for a year at least, but that didn't appear to be the case at the time  ::)

I hope the women's league here doesn't get regarded as second rate just because certain players prefer to play abroad "to be in a bigger league".

In the men's English Premier league, there are many foreign internationals who have probably upset the fans in their native country by playing here, causing their national leagues to miss out on seeing the best players their country has got, apart from when they play internationals on home territory.

But, so much of this comes down to money - several England internationals have played for foreign clubs - but generally only for top clubs - eg Real Madrid.

Beckham went to USA but needed to play in a more competitive league, hence playing for Milan.
He'd surely earned enough to keep him for the rest of his life, so didn't really need USA.

Maybe different for women players though.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on April 14, 2009, 11:24:24 AM


Kelly Smith, Karen Carney and Alex Scott all said they probably wouldn't have left England had the superleague already been in place so the views of those elite players are very relevant to the discussion.

I think the most important views are those expressed by the small set of elite players in this country. They are the players that fans turn up wanting to see.

I don't understand your reference to David Beckham. The men's English league is a well established setup with many stars in all the teams so the loss of certain players won't dent the huge following. The women's brand is less established so it needs to have all the best domestic talents available to attract the following. Arsenal have attracted huge gates for away games in the past simple due to the stars on show.

All these players left even though the Super League was supposedly done and dusted for 2010.
If they really wanted to stay here, what was their problem?

OK - their problem would have been that the new league is postponed for a year at least, but that didn't appear to be the case at the time  ::)

I hope the women's league here doesn't get regarded as second rate just because certain players prefer to play abroad "to be in a bigger league".

In the men's English Premier league, there are many foreign internationals who have probably upset the fans in their native country by playing here, causing their national leagues to miss out on seeing the best players their country has got, apart from when they play internationals on home territory.

But, so much of this comes down to money - several England internationals have played for foreign clubs - but generally only for top clubs - eg Real Madrid.

Beckham went to USA but needed to play in a more competitive league, hence playing for Milan.
He'd surely earned enough to keep him for the rest of his life, so didn't really need USA.

Maybe different for women players though.

If they had waited for the Summerleague to come along they would have missed the chance to play in the US, they may even have had an idea that it was going to be put off.....I'm still glad its not happening as I don't think its a good plan...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on April 14, 2009, 11:07:30 PM
I'm still glad its not happening as I don't think its a good plan...

What would you do, if you were in charge, to improve women's football in England?  How would you try to make it a more stable environment in which clubs operate? What would be your buisness plan to get clubs in a position that allows them to adopt a self-sustaining buisness model? How would you look to attract more players and supporters to women's football?  A lot of people seem to be very negative about the FA's current plans but then don't really come up with any ideas to improve the league themselves.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on April 14, 2009, 11:43:32 PM
If the FA is interested to hear some supporters view, I will be happy to give them feedback and few idea.  :)
Like no salary cap for example.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on April 14, 2009, 11:58:06 PM
no salary cap for example.

Would that be a good thing in the long run though?  The salary cap would certainly start to tackle the issue of all the elite players playing for a select group of teams.  Some of the Arsenal players were quoted as saying their performance improved when they new they new they were going to be playing a tough match against one of the big teams. The performances would improve then if the league had more big teams.  Alex Scott said in her latest interview that what excited her was the fact that every team is so strong so she doesn't know how they'll get on from one week to the next. It makes for a better product if it is not all predictable. I think some of the details about the salary cap might just need amending.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: cardy on April 15, 2009, 08:08:09 AM
There were obvious problems that needed to be sorted out with the introduction of the superleague.  Where the matches were to be played amongst others.  The idea of the central contracts, I was not clear about either.  I heard it involved some loughborough students who are on scholarships.  I agree some of them need some sort of travel allowances between home - matches & loughborough but surely the central cotnract idea is for players that need to work for a living to enable them to concentrate on training.  At loughborough this is 'built in'.  The students mainly playe for national sides at some level so maybe they should be involved in the contracts.  With only around 25 to give out it would be difficult to allocate them.  Say for example one of the 'more experienced' players from the senior squad worked either for her club or coaching would she get a contract or would they give if to an up and coming player.  Personally I would give the contracts to the senior squad living in the UK.  The difference in fitness would be marked.  Just look at the changes when Fulham went professional  the fitness levels increased a great deal.

The other problem seems where would the players train..... The managers and coaches at present are not professional, they often do other jobs.   I am sure we can all think of many problems the F.A. havent covered. 
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on April 15, 2009, 06:40:19 PM
Personally I'd find it difficult to envisage the central contracts, which appear to be going ahead, being given to anybody other than the senior England squad given the correct criteria. Surely that was the whole point of them... wasn't it?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on April 15, 2009, 11:12:46 PM
I just wonder if England gives you say 16 000 a year and your club up to 40 000, that would be stupid to take England's offer? Also by giving central contract you are more or less obliged to pick those players for england even if better players who are not under contract exists  ??? The WPS players for example, would the FA select Aluko or Handley as an example, or K. Smith or Westwood.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: cardy on April 15, 2009, 11:45:56 PM
possibly handley and westwood! 
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on April 15, 2009, 11:55:23 PM
I just wonder if England gives you say 16 000 a year and your club up to 40 000, that would be stupid to take England's offer? Also by giving central contract you are more or less obliged to pick those players for england even if better players who are not under contract exists  ??? The WPS players for example, would the FA select Aluko or Handley as an example, or K. Smith or Westwood.

The proposals meant a player could get paid from the FA and her club.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on April 16, 2009, 03:00:48 PM
I'm still glad its not happening as I don't think its a good plan...

What would you do, if you were in charge, to improve women's football in England?  How would you try to make it a more stable environment in which clubs operate? What would be your buisness plan to get clubs in a position that allows them to adopt a self-sustaining buisness model? How would you look to attract more players and supporters to women's football?  A lot of people seem to be very negative about the FA's current plans but then don't really come up with any ideas to improve the league themselves.

Well a lot of the people that have commented on it know more about football that either you or me.  Rather than just being negative as you say a lot of people have been asking questions about the new set up and haven't really got any answers.  That tells me the proposal was ill thought out.  It also has been hit by the current ecconomic climate which is making life difficult for football in general so adopting a self-sustaining buisness model for the woman's game might be a tough task especally when one of the contributers Satanta may fold.  This would cause havoc for more than just the woman's league....

 Now that we're stuck with the current set up for another year (or two or twelve) they could maybe try organise it better maybe having a winter break and having a realistic schedule.  Having the fixtures spread out over the year factoring in international and cup dates instead of trying to cram the fixtures in before February which never works.  That would give people a clearer idea of when games are going to be might help encourage them to turn up...Its sad that terrestral TV has lost the FA Cup final that was a good bit of publicity, having a highlights programme even on kids TV slot would help develop the game.  Remember the global popularity of Snooker grew out of a daft half hour programme on a Friday night called 'Pot Black'
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on April 16, 2009, 05:34:42 PM
Also by giving central contract you are more or less obliged to pick those players for england even if better players who are not under contract exists  ??? The WPS players for example, would the FA select Aluko or Handley as an example, or K. Smith or Westwood.

I wouldn't say they would be obliged to pick anybody. I'd see the contracts as being a way of increasing the pool of players who get more time to train, and that can only be good for the England team. And that obviously has to be one of the FA's objectives in this.

If they are run anything like the ones in cricket then the contracts will be re-newed each year, so it should be possible to select a core of players who will be involved for the up-coming fixtures. It's a positive move and doesn't have to be difficult even though we don't know the exact selection method for the players.

I believe the Norwegian players get support payments from the NFF, which are not radically different. I believe they all have diverse backgrounds i.e. fully employed, students, differing geographical locations etc and it seems to work OK. It will be alright here too. IMO
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on April 16, 2009, 10:26:54 PM
I'm still glad its not happening as I don't think its a good plan...

What would you do, if you were in charge, to improve women's football in England?  How would you try to make it a more stable environment in which clubs operate? What would be your buisness plan to get clubs in a position that allows them to adopt a self-sustaining buisness model? How would you look to attract more players and supporters to women's football?  A lot of people seem to be very negative about the FA's current plans but then don't really come up with any ideas to improve the league themselves.

Well a lot of the people that have commented on it know more about football that either you or me.  Rather than just being negative as you say a lot of people have been asking questions about the new set up and haven't really got any answers.  That tells me the proposal was ill thought out.  It also has been hit by the current ecconomic climate which is making life difficult for football in general so adopting a self-sustaining buisness model for the woman's game might be a tough task especally when one of the contributers Satanta may fold.  This would cause havoc for more than just the woman's league....

 Now that we're stuck with the current set up for another year (or two or twelve) they could maybe try organise it better maybe having a winter break and having a realistic schedule.  Having the fixtures spread out over the year factoring in international and cup dates instead of trying to cram the fixtures in before February which never works.  That would give people a clearer idea of when games are going to be might help encourage them to turn up...Its sad that terrestral TV has lost the FA Cup final that was a good bit of publicity, having a highlights programme even on kids TV slot would help develop the game.  Remember the global popularity of Snooker grew out of a daft half hour programme on a Friday night called 'Pot Black'
Totally agree there. I'm sure a lot of people get interested in the currently not so popular sports by accident almost. Just an odd bit on "Blue Peter" or something may get kids to realise there's a women's league out here.

And, I remember "Pot Black" - that started around 1969 (I've been checking it up), and Ted Lowe was asked to commentate on a tournament on a sport that only had 7 professional players :o
During those early days, he came up with the comment "He's going for the pink, and for those of you with black an white sets, the yellow is behind the blue" :D
Then, in 1985 a World Snooker final (Steve Davis v Denis Taylor) had 18.5m viewers at midnight (around a third of the UK population at the time), and now there are over 500 professional players.

Shows what is possible ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on April 17, 2009, 01:05:09 PM

Its sad that terrestral TV has lost the FA Cup final that was a good bit of publicity

That is simply not correct. It was confirmed way back in the 2007 press release that the FA Women's Cup would continue to be on ‘free-to-air’ channel.

Quote
There will also be more airtime for other FA competitions and teams, such as The FA Community Shield, The FA Trophy, FA Vase and FA Youth Cup, all of which will now be covered in greater depth by Setanta Sports. The women’s game will benefit from enhanced programming including live ITV1 coverage of the Women’s FA Cup Final.

I wish people would do just a quick bit of research before coming out with negative stories.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on April 17, 2009, 01:16:44 PM
I'm still glad its not happening as I don't think its a good plan...

What would you do, if you were in charge, to improve women's football in England?  How would you try to make it a more stable environment in which clubs operate? What would be your buisness plan to get clubs in a position that allows them to adopt a self-sustaining buisness model? How would you look to attract more players and supporters to women's football?  A lot of people seem to be very negative about the FA's current plans but then don't really come up with any ideas to improve the league themselves.

I know that both Lincoln and Fulham have given a full set of alternative proposals for a self-sustaining long term model of a WPL in England to the FA. For obvious reason's it's not always possible to air stuff like that on public forums such as this, however I assure you they are out there... Any negativity that I personally air regarding this last FA fiasco is with those in mind.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on April 17, 2009, 01:28:59 PM
I know that both Lincoln and Fulham have given a full set of alternative proposals for a self-sustaining long term model of a WPL in England to the FA. For obvious reason's it's not always possible to air stuff like that on public forums such as this, however I assure you they are out there... Any negativity that I personally air regarding this last FA fiasco is with those in mind.

Have you and Fulham had positive feedback about your alternative proposals from other teams?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on April 17, 2009, 06:19:39 PM
I can't speak for Fulham, however we only gave directly to the FA, and did not put in front of the clubs at an AGM or SGM. What happened to ours - they simply took very selected bits out of it and cobbled them into a fashion to suit what they had proposed for the summer league, and twisted them to suit their own causes, without regard for what they were really meant for. In the end it becomes so synical you just give up...

But when we speak to other clubs, many seem in general agreement about what we propose, with of course their own ideas on top - and it certainly doesn't add up to a franchise no promotion no relegation league I can assure you...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on April 18, 2009, 01:09:33 AM
I can't speak for Fulham, however we only gave directly to the FA, and did not put in front of the clubs at an AGM or SGM. What happened to ours - they simply took very selected bits out of it and cobbled them into a fashion to suit what they had proposed for the summer league, and twisted them to suit their own causes, without regard for what they were really meant for. In the end it becomes so synical you just give up...

But when we speak to other clubs, many seem in general agreement about what we propose, with of course their own ideas on top - and it certainly doesn't add up to a franchise no promotion no relegation league I can assure you...

That's nice to hear ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on April 18, 2009, 11:12:35 AM

Its sad that terrestral TV has lost the FA Cup final that was a good bit of publicity

That is simply not correct. It was confirmed way back in the 2007 press release that the FA Women's Cup would continue to be on ‘free-to-air’ channel.

Quote
There will also be more airtime for other FA competitions and teams, such as The FA Community Shield, The FA Trophy, FA Vase and FA Youth Cup, all of which will now be covered in greater depth by Setanta Sports. The women’s game will benefit from enhanced programming including live ITV1 coverage of the Women’s FA Cup Final.

I wish people would do just a quick bit of research before coming out with negative stories.

I remember people say a few seasons ago that the woman's final would be on ITV1 but it was on the Beeb instead...looked on the ITV web-site and could find no sign of it just likes to the new and improved FA site (NOT, as Borat would say).  Good if its on ITV but I'll believe when I see it....As for Satanta they are busy renegotiating their contract with the SPL begining 2010 and in a statement said that they were renegotiating ALL their contracts so I dare say this was a major factor in the delay of the summer league...You also have to wonder how this will effect coverage as a whole...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on April 19, 2009, 12:48:18 AM
I remember people say a few seasons ago that the woman's final would be on ITV1 but it was on the Beeb instead...looked on the ITV web-site and could find no sign of it just likes to the new and improved FA site (NOT, as Borat would say).  Good if its on ITV but I'll believe when I see it....As for Satanta they are busy renegotiating their contract with the SPL begining 2010 and in a statement said that they were renegotiating ALL their contracts so I dare say this was a major factor in the delay of the summer league...You also have to wonder how this will effect coverage as a whole...

Gooner is correct. The information was confirmed when the FA officially announced the new TV deal for the four-year period from August 2008 to July 2012 on Friday, 20 March 2007. I recall it being widely reported at the time with a breakdown of how it will work.

For recent confimation I refer you to today's official men's FA Cup programme which gives a mention that the FA Women's Cup Final is to be broadcast live on ITV1.

All FA run competitions come under the exclusive UK broadcast deal.  The people who said a few years back that the cup final would be on ITV were taling a load of crap as the BBC and Sky were the previous exclusive broadcast partners of the FA deal which only expired on July 31, 2008.

The arrangement with ITV and Setanta ensured that the TV packages would be shown on a mixture of 'free-to-air' and subscription channels, with the principal games remianing on 'free-to-air' TV.

Quote
Live Women's Football On TV is shown on both ITV and Setanta Sports in the UK. From the 2008 / 2009 season onwards, ITV will broadcast the Women's FA Cup Final exclusively live and Setanta Sports will show live coverage of England Women's Senior Home International Matches and the FA Women's Community Shield.

Upcoming matches

Thu 23th Apr England V Norway Women's International 19:45 Setanta Sports 1
Mon 4th May Sunderland V Arsenal FA Women's FA Cup Final 13:00 ITV1

http://www.live-footballontv.com/live-womens-football-on-tv.html

I am sure the FA do not make decisions on the future of women's football based on speculation about one of its broadcast partners. The FA would simply invite other broadcaters to bid for the rights if it came down to Setanta not being able to honour the deal .  I think Sky would be the subscription channel that would most likely take over the deal in the unlikely event it came to it.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on April 19, 2009, 07:01:34 AM
I remember people say a few seasons ago that the woman's final would be on ITV1 but it was on the Beeb instead...looked on the ITV web-site and could find no sign of it just likes to the new and improved FA site (NOT, as Borat would say).  Good if its on ITV but I'll believe when I see it....As for Satanta they are busy renegotiating their contract with the SPL begining 2010 and in a statement said that they were renegotiating ALL their contracts so I dare say this was a major factor in the delay of the summer league...You also have to wonder how this will effect coverage as a whole...

Gooner is correct. The information was confirmed when the FA officially announced the new TV deal for the four-year period from August 2008 to July 2012 on Friday, 20 March 2007. I recall it being widely reported at the time with a breakdown of how it will work.

For recent confimation I refer you to today's official men's FA Cup programme which gives a mention that the FA Women's Cup Final is to be broadcast live on ITV1.

All FA run competitions come under the exclusive UK broadcast deal.  The people who said a few years back that the cup final would be on ITV were taling a load of crap as the BBC and Sky were the previous exclusive broadcast partners of the FA deal which only expired on July 31, 2008.

The arrangement with ITV and Setanta ensured that the TV packages would be shown on a mixture of 'free-to-air' and subscription channels, with the principal games remianing on 'free-to-air' TV.

Quote
Live Women's Football On TV is shown on both ITV and Setanta Sports in the UK. From the 2008 / 2009 season onwards, ITV will broadcast the Women's FA Cup Final exclusively live and Setanta Sports will show live coverage of England Women's Senior Home International Matches and the FA Women's Community Shield.

Upcoming matches

Thu 23th Apr England V Norway Women's International 19:45 Setanta Sports 1
Mon 4th May Sunderland V Arsenal FA Women's FA Cup Final 13:00 ITV1

http://www.live-footballontv.com/live-womens-football-on-tv.html

I am sure the FA do not make decisions on the future of women's football based on speculation about one of its broadcast partners. The FA would simply invite other broadcaters to bid for the rights if it came down to Setanta not being able to honour the deal .  I think Sky would be the subscription channel that would most likely take over the deal in the unlikely event it came to it.

I didn't say the FA were making decisions based on speculation but on a broadcaster seeking to change its current arrangements....I don't think you quite realise the bloody mess broadcasting is in frankly the money isn't there any more...if Sky were to just step in why did they get shot of woman's football in the first place...most of that last bit is really nieve....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on April 19, 2009, 03:35:27 PM
I didn't say the FA were making decisions based on speculation but on a broadcaster seeking to change its current arrangements....I don't think you quite realise the bloody mess broadcasting is in frankly the money isn't there any more...if Sky were to just step in why did they get shot of woman's football in the first place...most of that last bit is really nieve....

But it is not because Sky do not want to broadcast women's football.  The reason why Sky and BBC will no longer be able show women's football is simply because they no longer hold the rights to FA competitions due to the previous audio-visual rights having expired on July 31, 2008. Sky lost out in the bidding process to Setanta. It wasn't as if they didn't want to continue broadcasting FA competitions.

The FA would not be short of bids by rival broadcasters for the rights currently held by Setanta.  Sky would jump at the chance of regaining the rights to FA competitions as they would get the men's FA Cup and England men's home matches.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on April 19, 2009, 06:45:10 PM
The FA would not be short of bids by rival broadcasters for the rights currently held by Setanta.  Sky would jump at the chance of regaining the rights to FA competitions as they would get the men's FA Cup and England men's home matches.

There are a few different aspects to this thread but...

True if Setanta/ITV wanted to offload their rights somebody would pick them up. But the FA would be extremely unlikely to get the same sort of deal. Setanta's absence in the bidding process along with a struggling ITV would most likely reduce the cost of the rights significantly, and that is where the issue could have big impacts on the FA's budgeting and potentially women's football too. The situation is similar if Setanta seek to re-negotiate the deals, and that may involve delayed payments.

The same issue has come into focus with the SPL and their deal with Setanta. Those clubs are rightly concerned about their funding.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on April 19, 2009, 06:48:07 PM
Yep, I can see football in general having problems not just the ladies....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on April 19, 2009, 07:05:46 PM
I do not see a major problem at all with the existing deals.  It was only recently that it was confirmed by the Premier League that it had agreed TV deals worth a record £1,782bn.

A number of broadcasters have expressed interest in showing football with American sports giant ESPN involved in the recent auction for Premier League rights.

The FA would invite broadcasters to bid for any packages that come available.  The bidding process would be private so BBC and Sky would not be aware who they would be up against.

The concerns were certainly valid a few months ago with football in general but the English domestic football deal shows how strong the product is.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on April 19, 2009, 07:26:33 PM
This issue has been around in the papers for a while, but organisations don't usually shout from the rooftops about finances. Who knows how much is true, but there is usually no smoke without a fire.

The English Premier League is slightly different because they are not so reliant on the ITV/Setanta combination. But the FA are totally reliant on it for their funding.

Any bidding process with less heavyweight bidders is by definition surely going to be less competitive, and it is that competition that led to the increase in the rights. I don't doubt it is a genuine concern. If you browse the SPL news or Scottish papers you will see that it is being taken very seriously.

Think ITV digital and you will get a good idea of some of the issues that can occur if a broadcaster hits trouble.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on April 19, 2009, 07:59:29 PM
Every broadcaster in this country would love to have the rights for England matches so I think the FA deal will be fine in the end.

The SPL situation is slightly different with the league not being in a strong enough position to attract improved deals.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on April 20, 2009, 10:34:44 AM
Chelsea v Leeds Carnegie was the first match I've been able to get to since the FA pulled the plug on the Superleague.

Some interesting comments flying around in the bar afterwards among the assembled brethren.

Regardless whether you're pro or con Superleague, no-one believes the FA's story about funding or that they couldn't have found the comparatively small amount of money needed. Instead, the consensus seems to be that the whole debacle proves that the FA don't care about the women's game.

The belief is also that 'deferred' does indeed mean 'cancelled'.

The most telling comment I heard all afternoon was: "The FA have kicked women's football back into the Dark Ages."
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on April 20, 2009, 01:44:37 PM
Chelsea v Leeds Carnegie was the first match I've been able to get to since the FA pulled the plug on the Superleague.

Some interesting comments flying around in the bar afterwards among the assembled brethren.

Regardless whether you're pro or con Superleague, no-one believes the FA's story about funding or that they couldn't have found the comparatively small amount of money needed. Instead, the consensus seems to be that the whole debacle proves that the FA don't care about the women's game.

The belief is also that 'deferred' does indeed mean 'cancelled'.

The most telling comment I heard all afternoon was: "The FA have kicked women's football back into the Dark Ages."

That is the kind of comments I would expect from people in the women’s game following the unfortunate deferral of the league for 12 months.  I don’t think they are right because the FA had to defer a number of projects at the FA board meeting on 31 March with the majority of them not relating to women’s football at all.  It wasn’t as if women’s football was the only one to have funding cut.

I personally find it slightly boring to read comments that ‘deferred’ actually means ‘cancelled’ because that is not based on anything concrete.  Anyone can speculate. It would hold up more weight if the views were expressed by someone with knowledge of the FA.

The letter sent to clubs by FA Chairman Lord Triesman can be viewed here: http://tinyurl.com/c6sxsj (http://tinyurl.com/c6sxsj)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on April 20, 2009, 08:11:21 PM
Time will tell I suppose, and you're right, no one really know's what goes on in the heads of those at the FA.

However, on a foundation of something that absolutely isn't concrete at all - in fact it's quite a bit softer and browner than that - I tend to agree with our friends at Leeds and Chelsea... nicely worded letter or not  :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on April 20, 2009, 10:15:39 PM
Lord Triesman's letter confirms what I always thought that the cuts are not limited to the women's league only.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on April 21, 2009, 05:28:26 PM
Lord Triesman's letter confirms what I always thought that the cuts are not limited to the women's league only.

That's true, however IMHO it really makes little or no difference to the situation. We got that letter too, of course, but we've paid little heed to it.

I don't think it really makes any difference to us who else or what else they have decided to cut their funding for, but I think what it does do is give an indication as to how high in the pecking order the sport stands - especially I should think if anybody can be bothered to look at what funding they've decided to keep in place, which if I'm honest, I can't be bothered to do.

My view is this is over and done with - they may say something at this meeting they're arranging, however I'll take that with a pinch of salt too until something more concrete comes along. Hopefully if they do decide to resurrect the whole thing it will be with the consent and cooperation of the majority of the clubs at the top end of the game, will be self sustaining, and above all it will be fair to all clubs and players in the game and give everyone a fair crack of the whip - on the field which is where decisions of promotion and relegation should be made - not in an office somewhere in London...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on April 24, 2009, 12:44:41 AM
Women's game deserves better

Jacqui Oatley | 17:00 UK time, Wednesday, 22 April 2009

How fantastic to see England superstar Kelly Smith proving every week that she's one of the very best talents in the world.

The former Arsenal playmaker is taking the new United States professional women's league - the WPS - by storm, having scored three goals in her opening three games for the Boston Breakers, picking up a WPS Player of the Week award along the way.

Smith is joined in the new league by fellow England team-mates Alex Scott (also at Boston Breakers), Eni Aluko (St Louis Athletica), Anita Asante (Sky Blue) and Karen Carney (Chicago Red Stars).

Excellent experience for these players to test themselves against the best, but what have they left behind? The answer: a great deal of disillusionment.

While the WPS league was starting with a flourish, the Football Association in England was deciding to postpone its new women's Super League.

And how do you think this news has gone down with players, clubs, administrators and coaches? Having spoken to a range of them, I can assure you it's hit them like a ton of bricks. They're also deeply unhappy that they only found out via a newspaper report and hadn't been told directly. FA chairman Lord Triesman has since written to the clubs to apologise for the leak.

Tears have been shed by people who have worked tirelessly to try to make it happen. These are the same people who have been grafting for years to try to drag the women's game up to the standard of the Scandinavian countries and Germany.

One top player told me she's now regretting her decision not to pursue a professional career in the US in favour of remaining loyal to the supposedly exciting new game at home. Some England players are feeling demoralised and let down just four months before Euro 2009 in Finland.

The Super League is only one part of a four-year strategy to develop the girls' and women's game. The rest of the proposals, I'm told, are still going ahead as planned.

The idea was to have a semi-professional league of eight teams (initially) played in the summer with better playing surfaces and facilities, desperately-needed television exposure, with clubs receiving up to £70,000 each per season to help them become self-financing, rather than be dependent on their male counterparts. Look no further than Charlton as an example of the perils of relying on a men's team. The aim was to make the league more competitive, raise the profile of the game in England, encourage young fans to watch their idols and to prevent top players from wanting to play abroad.

It's certainly too late for that.

The first few words of the promotional publication for the strategy states in capital letters that "the FA must take the lead role in developing the women's and girls' game". Yet, the feeling is that women's game is the lowest hanging fruit and the first to be picked off the tree when cuts are made. Further down, the document reads "To be trusted to lead, we must: Lead with confidence to deliver the strategy". It seems that some in the game have had their confidence shaken.

Clubs are generally run by volunteers who had spent a great deal of time putting together their application to join the summer league. Three weeks before they were due to hand in their completed applications, they discovered, via a newspaper report, that all that time and money had been wasted.

The FA's public statement on the matter, which followed the leak, said that the league would be deferred until the summer of 2011 "as a prudent measure in the current global financial downturn to ensure that we are able to use our financial resources in the most appropriate and meaningful way".

A spokesman told me that the FA is not picking on women's football and that this project is just one of several to be put back due to the "current financial climate". The National Football Centre at Burton reportedly being one of the others. Lord Triesman also stated in his letter to the clubs that the move was "caused by financial difficulties in companies with which we trade".

So the FA may not be singling out women's football for cutbacks, yet many feel the game simply can't afford another setback in its development. It has already suffered greatly due to a lack of investment over the years and many believe that this long overdue project should have been ring-fenced, with savings found elsewhere.

"I personally believe it's been shelved indefinitely," says Vic Akers, legendary manager of Arsenal Ladies who's won 30 major trophies in his 22 years at the club (it will be 31 trophies if they beat Sunderland in the FA Women's Cup final on 4 May). "It's sad that the girls' game always seems to take the mallet over the head. We've already lost five national players to the United States, including the iconic Kelly Smith. We'll lose more, and that can't be good for the game in England."

Casey Stoney, England defender and manager of Chelsea, is equally aggrieved. "We're struggling for survival," she says. "We had a plan for the financial year, now it's changed. Clubs need to know where they stand. We take two steps forward and five steps back."

Sue Smith, Leeds Carnegie and England winger, adds: "I'm gutted. Everything was set in place. We were excited about having the Super League to look forward to after we got back from Euro 2009. But not any more. We feel deflated".

The feeling amongst those I've spoken to is that the deferment of the Super League will hamper the growth of a sport so desperately needing a shot in the arm from the powers that be. The women's game is still trying to catch up on its development after it was effectively banned for 50 years until 1971.

The vibes are not all negative, though. Twenty England players are being awarded one-year contracts worth £16,000 each to enable them to cut down on their working hours so they can concentrate on their fitness. A major help to those who were getting run-down and ill due to working so many hours before and after training sessions. This should help avoid a repeat of the problems the players had at the World Cup in 2007, when their £40 a day pay left many struggling to make ends meet.

There are some extremely hard working, passionate people working on women's football at Soho Square and a set of highly professional, yet part-time, players who give their all for their country. They feel as though they've been let down again.

Users comments to the blog can be viewed here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/jacquioatley/2009/04/women_footballers_deserve_bett.html (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/jacquioatley/2009/04/women_footballers_deserve_bett.html)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on April 24, 2009, 12:48:05 AM
One top player told me she's now regretting her decision not to pursue a professional career in the US in favour of remaining loyal to the supposedly exciting new game at home.

Fara Williams?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on April 24, 2009, 01:19:13 AM
One top player told me she's now regretting her decision not to pursue a professional career in the US in favour of remaining loyal to the supposedly exciting new game at home.

Fara Williams?
Xena said somewhere here that Fara had no intention of going to US  :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on April 24, 2009, 01:28:21 AM
One top player told me she's now regretting her decision not to pursue a professional career in the US in favour of remaining loyal to the supposedly exciting new game at home.

Fara Williams?
Xena said somewhere here that Fara had no intention of going to US  :)

Was that after the news from the FA?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: cardy on April 24, 2009, 09:21:19 AM
Players like Fara Williams will get a central contract if they are still to go ahead (?)  Its the younger players that are not in the frame for the contracts that will definitely go.  That means less easily recognisable talent being developed in this country.  If the professional league succeeds the FA will have to decide if they want to pay more airfares from the US. 

The FA should realise what the club managers already know, that the American coaches havent actually stopped looking for players and some are turning their attention to players who are not already part of the National Squad or, maybe just on the fringes of it.  I am sure that managers of Chelsea, Everton and Arsenal (especially) will be worried about any of their players visiting the US at the moment.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on April 24, 2009, 09:28:51 AM
  I am sure that managers of Chelsea, Everton and Arsenal (especially) will be worried about any of their players visiting the US at the moment.
I heard the usual moves across the pond to the W-League and WPSL are on the way and it is an obvious shop window for the WPS teams. To be honest there are 5 players over there and I don't think more than 5 maximum would go as the WPS have foreigners quotas that are more or less filled up right now.
Also relationship could stop players from moving, not every player has enough pulling power  like Marta to be able to bring her partner to the USA.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on April 24, 2009, 06:06:38 PM

One top player told me she's now regretting her decision not to pursue a professional career in the US in favour of remaining loyal to the supposedly exciting new game at home.

Emma would be the obvious choice as the only 'stay at home' from the draft - although I know of other players who have had the opportunity to go Stateside.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on April 24, 2009, 06:12:33 PM

One top player told me she's now regretting her decision not to pursue a professional career in the US in favour of remaining loyal to the supposedly exciting new game at home.

Emma would be the obvious choice as the only 'stay at home' from the draft - although I know of other players who have had the opportunity to go Stateside.
I'd be surprised if Emma was the player in question to be honest, would have thought someone who was not drafted actually but good enough to play there.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on April 24, 2009, 10:59:24 PM

One top player told me she's now regretting her decision not to pursue a professional career in the US in favour of remaining loyal to the supposedly exciting new game at home.

Emma would be the obvious choice as the only 'stay at home' from the draft - although I know of other players who have had the opportunity to go Stateside.

I think Jacqui had spoken to the England players. A number of other players had been approached like Faye White.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on April 24, 2009, 11:26:51 PM
Not everyone wants to go to the US, even if asked.

Compare it with the men's Prem - probably the world's best league, but many players don't want to play here.

Even English players have been happy to go to Real Madrid, for example.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on April 24, 2009, 11:36:37 PM
Compare it with the men's Prem - probably the world's best league, but many players don't want to play here.

Even English players have been happy to go to Real Madrid, for example.

Players still go to the lieks of Real Madrid because of the history of the club.

I reckon most players would jump at the chance of playing in the men's premier league.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on April 24, 2009, 11:47:53 PM
Compare it with the men's Prem - probably the world's best league, but many players don't want to play here.

Even English players have been happy to go to Real Madrid, for example.

Players still go to the lieks of Real Madrid because of the history of the club.

I reckon most players would jump at the chance of playing in the men's premier league.

But many have jumped out again - eg Flamini and Hleb from Arsenal.

Interesting that they seemed to claim they wanted to play for a team that had a chance of winning ECL  ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on April 24, 2009, 11:49:19 PM
Compare it with the men's Prem - probably the world's best league, but many players don't want to play here.

Even English players have been happy to go to Real Madrid, for example.

Players still go to the lieks of Real Madrid because of the history of the club.

I reckon most players would jump at the chance of playing in the men's premier league.

But many have jumped out again - eg Flamini and Hleb from Arsenal.

Interesting that they seemed to claim they wanted to play for a team that had a chance of winning ECL  ;D

It was only this week that Flamini said to the BBC that he would not rule out a return to Arsenal. Most players miss the league once they leave.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on April 24, 2009, 11:52:41 PM
Compare it with the men's Prem - probably the world's best league, but many players don't want to play here.

Even English players have been happy to go to Real Madrid, for example.

Players still go to the lieks of Real Madrid because of the history of the club.

I reckon most players would jump at the chance of playing in the men's premier league.

But many have jumped out again - eg Flamini and Hleb from Arsenal.

Interesting that they seemed to claim they wanted to play for a team that had a chance of winning ECL  ;D

It was only this week that Flamini said to the BBC that he would not rule out a return to Arsenal. Most players miss the league once they leave.


Really? Flamini would have been a great asset this season.

And I forgot that Hleb had gone to Barça  :-[
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on April 25, 2009, 08:10:07 PM
Casey Stoney, England defender and manager of Chelsea, is equally aggrieved. "We're struggling for survival," she says. "We had a plan for the financial year, now it's changed. Clubs need to know where they stand. We take two steps forward and five steps back."

Swinging gently back on topic, Casey's comments on Chelsea's finances were quite an eye-opener.

I didn't include it in my Chelsea v Leeds Carnegie match report, but she said as much to me when I asked her about the manager's job.

The perception is that Chelsea Ladies are a rich club, given Abramovich's proximity, but that simply isn't the case.

While Casey has undoubtedly done a good job, she told me that they haven't got money for a manager at the moment and actually said that her taking the manager's role would help Chelsea survive.

She was also concerned that some clubs could go to the wall, because their budgets allowed for the FA's superleague money, leaving them to find thousands of pounds elsewhere in a tough financial climate.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on April 26, 2009, 12:11:56 AM
Casey Stoney, England defender and manager of Chelsea, is equally aggrieved. "We're struggling for survival," she says. "We had a plan for the financial year, now it's changed. Clubs need to know where they stand. We take two steps forward and five steps back."

Swinging gently back on topic, Casey's comments on Chelsea's finances were quite an eye-opener.

I didn't include it in my Chelsea v Leeds Carnegie match report, but she said as much to me when I asked her about the manager's job.

The perception is that Chelsea Ladies are a rich club, given Abramovich's proximity, but that simply isn't the case.

While Casey has undoubtedly done a good job, she told me that they haven't got money for a manager at the moment and actually said that her taking the manager's role would help Chelsea survive.

She was also concerned that some clubs could go to the wall, because their budgets allowed for the FA's superleague money, leaving them to find thousands of pounds elsewhere in a tough financial climate.

I was under the impression that Chelsea did have some cash - probably encouraged by the fact that Lorrie Fair went from USA to Chelsea last season (although her Chelsea career was unfortunately short).

It seems though that the clubs make the two steps forward, and the FA drag them five steps back  :'(
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on April 27, 2009, 09:06:09 AM




She was also concerned that some clubs could go to the wall, because their budgets allowed for the FA's superleague money, leaving them to find thousands of pounds elsewhere in a tough financial climate.


OUCH!!!!! :(
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on May 09, 2009, 05:30:50 PM
Arsenal boss Akers slams FA for shelving proposed Women's Summer League

By Simon Milham Last updated at 4:12 PM on 09th May 2009

Arsenal Ladies manager Vic Akers has blasted the Football Association for a 'lack of forward thinking' after proposals for a summer Super League were put on the back burner.

Akers, who will earn a 32nd trophy with the all-conquering Gunners' team if they beat Everton on Sunday to win the championship and complete a domestic treble, is fuming that the FA deferred the start of its summer Super League by a year to 2011.

He said: 'It shows a lack of foresight. The way forward is a summer league. Women's football can't thrive when it is competing against the men's game. We need to get more kids and families involved and encourage people to come.

'The FA have decided to put back plans for a 'Summer Super League' to 2011, which shows a lack of foresight and a lack of forward thinking.

'The FA have said that it is because they don't have the money, but you have to wonder if it will ever get off the ground.'

'The decision was reached,' read an FA statement, 'as part of an ongoing review of the FA's cost base and planned financial commitments,' adding that the review had been undertaken as 'a prudent measure in the current global financial downturn'.

The FA will officially announce later this week that 20 of England's top players will be handed central contracts, with salaries of £16,000-a-year, enabling them to train as professionals.

But the money is too little, too late for five key members of the national squad, who have quit the Premier League to join clubs in the new Women's Professional Soccer league in America.

Arsenal trio Kelly Smith, Alex Scott and Karen Carney, plus Chelsea's Anita Asante and Eniola Aluko are just five of the England squad who are heading to the States.

Akers said: 'What the FA haven't said is that it will be sixteen grand across the board. That means a player with one cap will be paid the same as a player with sixty or seventy caps and that can't be right, surely?

'It is going to cause a bit of friction and you can't blame players like Kelly  for heading to the States when they are going to be paid double.

'Losing these players is a serious loss to the British game.

'And the FA have to pay the costs of air fares and such to bring them back to play for England. It's not how I'd run my business, that's for sure.'

Former Cambridge and Watford left-back Akers, who has been at Arsenal for 22 years and serves as the men's first team kit manager, may be hoping for a perfect swansong against Everton.

But the 62-year-old, the most successful English manager in the country, who is "moving upstairs" to become general manager, says the says the drain in talent underlines the FA's stance.

He added: 'I think they looked at the budgets to see what they could cut and women's football seemed the easy option. It's sad. There is no guarantee that the Super League will now commence in 2011 and the FA have refused to expand on the initial statement.'

The FA insist that they are not shelving the idea of a Summer League.

A spokesman said: 'We need to clarify that we have deferred the Summer League, not cancelled it.

'We are meeting the clubs in two weeks' time and the chairman of the FA will be addressing them personally to discuss the situtation.'

Arsenal are expected to name their new manager within the next ten days.

Akers said: 'I have my own idea who should take over, but the Managing Director will make the decision. Whoever takes over will have a great staff to work with.'

Front-runners for the role include Tony Gervaise, the former Scottish FA Head of Youth Development in ladies football, Laura Harvey, the former Birmingham Ladies FC manager, and Marcus Bignot, who is currently on the books of League One side Millwall.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1179731/Arsenal-boss-Akers-slams-FA-shelving-proposed-Womens-Summer-League.html
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: cardy on May 09, 2009, 07:32:14 PM
So Akers has said what he thinks.  The drain on his team was immense but he doesnt blame the players.  I dont think that will be the end of it either.  Players will go to the W league and other summer leagues in the US.  International players will be targeted too. I believe the Irish National side are training in the US in thesummer.  the lure is strong so the FA obviously have shown again their prejudice towards the womens game.  It is still a stronghold of the male variety!!!  Sorry if this sounds sexist.  But I think thats what the FA show, Charlton and blatently Manchester United  (for not even trying to support the woments game) put Chelsea in that bracket too now!
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on May 09, 2009, 07:51:19 PM
So Akers has said what he thinks.  The drain on his team was immense but he doesnt blame the players.  I dont think that will be the end of it either.  Players will go to the W league and other summer leagues in the US.  International players will be targeted too. I believe the Irish National side are training in the US in thesummer.  the lure is strong so the FA obviously have shown again their prejudice towards the womens game.  It is still a stronghold of the male variety!!!  Sorry if this sounds sexist.  But I think thats what the FA show, Charlton and blatently Manchester United  (for not even trying to support the woments game) put Chelsea in that bracket too now!

It wasn't just the women's game that suffered as a result of the FA's recent cost cutting. I respect Vic's view but it is based on his feelings rather than on any evidence.

Unfortunately I think recent events proved that Charlton FC had to stop funding the women side of the club simply because it was a side of the company that was not making any profit. They now find themselves in the third tier of English football and I'm sure it could have been a lot worse had they not reduced costs. Look at clubs like Southampton going into administration.

Man Utd have a huge debt to pay off so would probably only start a side if a profit could be made.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on May 10, 2009, 11:52:03 PM
I don't really understand how the finances are worked out - I was listening to a phone in a couple of days ago where they were discussing the idea about income from tv rights for European games etc going to the FA for them to distribute throughout the various leagues, thus helping the "grass roots". It certainly won't be going into the women's game, whatever happens, as we already guessed - the women must be below the roots  >:(

Then there was someone saying about how much money Man Utd were making from their sales and marketing, compared with Chelsea getting handouts from Abramovich, and so this entitled them to buy as many players they want for £30m a time as they can afford them. I assumed Chelsea could buy players if Abramovich coughed up.

Can someone please explain how come Man Utd Ladies now don't even exist and Chelsea Ladies are in a mess please?  ???
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on May 19, 2009, 10:27:14 AM
Chelsea are now OK for next season - although I understand it was a close call at one point.

With the FA pulling the Super League at short notice, Pete Steward had to submit a new budget to the parent club hierarchy practically overnight.

Credit to Pete for pulling it around in time and getting it accepted.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on May 21, 2009, 10:31:20 PM
Chelsea are now OK for next season - although I understand it was a close call at one point.

With the FA pulling the Super League at short notice, Pete Steward had to submit a new budget to the parent club hierarchy practically overnight.

Credit to Pete for pulling it around in time and getting it accepted.
Glad to see they'll still be with us ;)
Title: Powell disappointed by league deferral
Post by: Rach_83 on May 23, 2009, 03:00:37 PM
Powell disappointed by league deferral

England Women's coach Hope Powell is disappointed by the deferral of the Women's Super League in England, which has been held back until 2011.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/women/8062431.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/women/8062431.stm)
Title: Re: Powell disappointed by league deferral
Post by: twmcat on May 23, 2009, 09:59:12 PM
Powell disappointed by league deferral

England Women's coach Hope Powell is disappointed by the deferral of the Women's Super League in England, which has been held back until 2011.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/women/8062431.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/women/8062431.stm)

She seemed to somehow expect it, judging by her tone.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on June 01, 2009, 02:00:17 PM
A good article in the guardian about the FA new Chief Executive. Surprise surprise no word about womens football which probably means it is not high on priority list.

When Ian Watmore arrives at Soho Square today for his first day as FA chief executive, he will not immediately be packing his bags for Kazakhstan to accompany the England team for Saturday's World Cup qualifier. Instead, he will spend his first week in the job meeting key staff and trying to set out his priorities.

The decision to stay behind is not intended as a snub to England's Kazakh hosts, but can be interpreted as a clear statement of intent that he will not let the glamorous side of the job – the England circus and all the baggage it entails – interfere with the important business of running the FA and re-establishing it as the voice and regulator of English football at all levels.

Here are 10 of the most pressing challenges that Watmore, an Arsenal fan with a reputation as a quietly effective operator with little desire to use the job to project his own ego, will face as Brian Barwick's successor.

1 Burton

Decision time is looming on the National Football Centre in Burton. The FA has spent an estimated £25m buying and developing the land and may need at least another £35m to complete the project. Despite a firm commitment to go ahead, the likely opening has slipped to 2011 from 2010. And there is still a range of dissenting voices about the location and purpose of the centre. Envisaged as a centre of excellence for coaches, sports scientists, nutritionists and more, as well as providing a training base for the England team, Watmore will have to remake a compelling case that ties into a long-term vision for the FA's wider role in youth development.

2 Youth development

A long-running impasse between the professional game and the FA concerning the best way to structure youth development is crying out for Watmore to break the logjam. Amid speculation about his future, the FA's director of football development, Sir Trevor Brooking, had a public war of words with the Football League chairman, Lord Mawhinney, late last year over how youth development should best be funded. The professional game believes that development money is best channelled through them, leaving the FA to "coach the coaches". But FA insiders point out that they also have grassroots football to consider and the infrastructure for the entire amateur game to worry about. Watmore has made the issue one of his top priorities.

3 Wembley

The new national stadium, the final bill for which approached almost £1bn and the legal fallout from which is still rumbling, continues to cast a shadow. Despite widespread praise for the stadium, the pitch continues to create headlines. More seriously, Watmore must oversee the financial viability of the subsidiary that runs the stadium. It is confident the recession will not affect its business plan, which relies heavily on corporate debentures, but it must also negotiate the refinancing of loan repayments that fall due every year until 2016. Watmore also faces the internal challenge of maintaining staff morale as he manages the move of hundreds of staff from their existing West End location to new offices at Wembley. Along with a round of redundancies, the prospect of trading in the restaurants of Soho for the kebab shops of the North Circular has done little for morale.

4 Reforming the FA

This falls more squarely in his chairman's lap, but their fates will be intertwined. Since the Burns review delivered its conclusions in 2005, progress has been painfully slow. An independent chairman, in the shape of Lord Triesman, is in place and represents some progress. But the overhaul of the FA's structure that the review so urgently highlighted, including widening the membership of the FA Council to better represent the game's stakeholders and introducing non-executive directors to the main board, appears to have ground to a halt. Triesman got the job on a reform ticket but appears now to believe he must tread more carefully. Perhaps he has been waiting for Watmore's arrival to act.

5 Drug testing

On 1 July new rules requiring a pool of the top 20 footballers in England to make their whereabouts known for an hour of every day are due to be introduced under the new World Anti-Doping Agency code. But an ongoing spat between Fifa and Wada, and criticism from some athletes, has clouded the implementation of the new rules. UK Sport, responsible for administering the tests, is adamant the new rules will be introduced, even if it takes two or three months. The FA has hitherto been more equivocal, and clubs, the players' union and agents are far from convinced. It will fall to Watmore to defuse a potentially volatile situation.

6 Political landscape

The FA has decided upon, but has yet to deliver, its answers to Andy Burnham's seven questions on the future of the game. While reasonably arguing that it has a far wider base of opinion to consult, the seven-month delay left the organisation looking leaden-footed against the Premier League and the Football League. Triesman found himself frustrated at only being able to follow the consensus of the earlier proposals from the professional game, after the board blocked his more radical ideas; hardly the ideal basis on which to launch a bid to re-establish the FA as the game's authoritative voice. Watmore must also hit the ground running in making his way around the boardrooms of England and the backwaters of the county game in an effort to win a broad base of support. In this, he may be helped by the fact he does not come from a Premier League background, unlike his main rival for the job, the former Arsenal chief executive Keith Edelman. Yet he must also heal the lasting wounds caused by his chairman's attack on the lack of accountability and financial management among top-flight clubs last year. But diplomacy is said to be among his strengths and he has already met the Premier League chief executive, Richard Scudamore.

7 TV rights/commercial deals

Given that he is succeeding a former ITV and BBC head of sport and is just one year into a new four-year broadcast deal, Watmore may have hoped that would be one thing he did not have to worry about. But the uncertainty surrounding Setanta's future and ITV's attempt to "smooth" its payment schedules on their joint £425m deal for the FA Cup and England internationals will give him pause for thought. Whichever way things go for Setanta, the FA is confident that a combination of money already banked and the possibility of reselling the rights will not force it to take a hit. But the real challenge will come when the sale process begins again in two years' time. With little competition in the market, it may be hard to maintain value. Watmore will also want to mull the hardy perennial of how to maintain the profile and allure of the FA Cup in an ever more crowded football calendar.

8 World Cup 2018

Although the bid for the World Cup is run by a separate company and led by Andy Anson, the FA and the bid vehicle share a chairman in Lord Triesman. Watmore will not be directly involved but the two are umbilically linked and the successes and failures of each will impact on the other, as seen with the furore over the lack of representation for black and ethnic minority groups at the launch. A successful bid would create a feelgood factor that could not help but benefit Watmore's tenure.

9 Discipline/Respect

The first season of the FA's high-profile Respect campaign has delivered mixed results. How the initial findings are communicated and how the campaign is taken forward will be crucial to re-establishing the FA's image as a body that is able to take a lead on issues that affect all levels of the game.

10 England

It is one of the delights and the frustrations of the job that Watmore could be an unalloyed success in all of the above and still come under pressure if England fail to deliver on the field. He has some leeway from the fact that he comes into the job with England well placed to qualify for South Africa 2010 and with a manager who is not his appointment but looks every inch the man for the job. Establishing a good working relationship at an early stage with Fabio Capello and his staff will, of course, be crucial.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jun/01/ian-watmore-fa-chief-executive
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on June 02, 2009, 07:55:49 PM
Quote
7 TV rights/commercial deals

Given that he is succeeding a former ITV and BBC head of sport and is just one year into a new four-year broadcast deal, Watmore may have hoped that would be one thing he did not have to worry about. But the uncertainty surrounding Setanta's future and ITV's attempt to "smooth" its payment schedules on their joint £425m deal for the FA Cup and England internationals will give him pause for thought. Whichever way things go for Setanta, the FA is confident that a combination of money already banked and the possibility of reselling the rights will not force it to take a hit. But the real challenge will come when the sale process begins again in two years' time. With little competition in the market, it may be hard to maintain value. Watmore will also want to mull the hardy perennial of how to maintain the profile and allure of the FA Cup in an ever more crowded football calendar.



I found the southern based ITV on my digi box the other day and who should be reading the London news, none other than Alex Hyndman.... Gee, seems a lot of them are getting out while the gettings good...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on June 02, 2009, 10:33:52 PM
I found the southern based ITV on my digi box the other day and who should be reading the London news, none other than Alex Hyndman.... Gee, seems a lot of them are getting out while the gettings good...

Totally unrelated.  Alex joined Setanta in November 2007, however she left after a year, though I've still seen her presenting occasionally on Setanta Sports News.

Alex initally joined ITV as just a relief presenter on London Tonight; a position she took up in November 2008. In recent months she has become more of a regular due to Katie Derham's commitments with the ITV Evening News.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on June 04, 2009, 11:03:42 AM
I found the southern based ITV on my digi box the other day and who should be reading the London news, none other than Alex Hyndman.... Gee, seems a lot of them are getting out while the gettings good...

Totally unrelated.  Alex joined Setanta in November 2007, however she left after a year, though I've still seen her presenting occasionally on Setanta Sports News.

Alex initally joined ITV as just a relief presenter on London Tonight; a position she took up in November 2008. In recent months she has become more of a regular due to Katie Derham's commitments with the ITV Evening News.

Alex was quite prominant on Satanta and featured on their promo spots up until last month...Funny that she took up with ITV in November last year just as doubts about Satanta started to surface....I saw this artical about Satanta the other day and it doesn't look good...the section on Eurosport though was pretty funny....

Quote
Just How Much Trouble Are Setanta In?

More news seems to be filtering through over the continued rumours that Setanta Sports are in financial difficulty here in the UK and are desperately trying to find some finance to help them through after they only won one of the six Premier League Packages for the next deal that starts in 2010. A desperate attempt at going to the Premier League, OFCOM and the European Commission arguing that bidding less for the Monday night packages than Sky and therefore not winning them is unfair. No really.

Yet here in UK, you’ve got take these stories with a pinch of salt, due to the massive media influence that Sky have, sharing an owner with two of the UK’s biggest Newspapers, The Sun and The Times. It wouldn’t take much co-ordination to orchestrate a collective campaign to create worrying speculation over Sky’s rival, yet it’s a story that has dogged them for a while and not just from Sky’s media bedfellows.

With a major investment in British football, with deals for both the English and Scottish Premierships, England matches and the F.A. Cup, Setanta is a major investor in the sport but is now apparently trying to re-negotiate it’s deal with the Scottish Premiership down from £125 million to £100 million. It’s also said to be in talks with the PGA to do the same with its American golf coverage.

Personally, I think it’s done a pretty good job for a new player in the game, though its roster of analysts and presenters could do with an overhaul. Steve McManaman is an unusual choice as the main pundit, Craig Burley a poor commentator. Yes, I have to pay £13 a month more for football, but I love football and not just from England.It gives me German, French, Portuguese, Scottish and Dutch football every week, its preseason friendly coverage is fantastic in its depth and breadth but it is a distant third for quality behind Sky and the undisputed kings, the BBC. I like watching football from all over Europe and Setanta gives me a choice I never had previously apart from the awful Eurogoals on dreadfully inept Eurosport.

One memorial episode featured no commentary for 25 minutes until the noise of someone rushing through the door, slamming it shut and breathing heavily for two minutes before beginning to speak will live long in the mind. Every week the commentator clearly hadn’t seen the footage and was flying by the seat of their pants. It never started on time, it was either early or late but never at the advertised time.It was easily the most infuriating football show on television.

The argument that Setanta feels unfairly done to though just doesn’t hold water. It misread the market and believed that with the last deal, the TV rights market had peaked. They were wrong and under bid by 20% of the deal they went with in 2007, Sky bid more and won it. They didn’t want the Saturday evening game rights as they consistently get the lowest figures of all football shown here in the UK on digital TV. Setanta went for them and won.

They made a massive error of judgement and already under subscribed by the 500,000 viewers it needs to reach it’s break even figure of 1.9 million subscribers, now faces a real prospect of people leaving their service. If Setanta do fail, the Premier League would lose around £159 million in revenue over a 3 year period, which would see each Premier League club lose around 2.7 million per season. It would be doubtful that the BBC or even ITV wouldn’t find the money from somewhere to come up with a suitable replacement.The FA on the other hand have a fallback position with ITV who will have to pay an extra £20 million for the England games if Setanta can’t show them. The FA Cup coverage is another matter.

My only experience of Setanta abroad is when I holidayed in the States and watched Sky’s coverage with Setanta logo on. So would we really miss them that much apart from James Richardson, Rebecca Lowe and Special One TV?

Title: FA Women's Super League meeting - June
Post by: Rach_83 on June 05, 2009, 03:43:23 PM
FA Women's Super League meeting

Friday, 05 June, 2009

The minutes from Lord Triesman's meeting with Premier League clubs.
FA Chairman Lord Triesman addresses The FA Women’s Premier League Clubs, 22 May 2009 on the deferral of the Super League from 2010 to 2011

Key Points

It was with great regret that The FA announced a one year deferral of the launch for The FA Women’s Super League from 2010 to 2011.

As you are aware, we are operating in financially turbulent times, the extent of which we could not foresee when planning for the launch of The FA Women’s Super League. The FA derives most of its income from its broadcast contracts. These revenues are currently under considerable stress and as a result a number of The FA’s projects have been deferred, we hope only in the short term.

We remain absolutely committed to Women’s and Girls’ football strategy, ‘Championing Growth and Excellence’ and the development of the new FA Women’s Super League. We do not want to cancel important projects and believe that by deferring them, whilst waiting for the financial situation to become clear, we are giving them the best chance of success going forward.

Going Forward

We do not want the Super League to lose momentum. It was not our intention for the project team and those teams applying for entry into The FA Women’s Super League (and any partners) to stop working on applications. We encourage you to continue working and to contact us if you require any support, which we will continue to provide.

There is much that can be achieved by both The FA and those working on their applications whilst we wait for confirmation that The FA Women’s Super League is proceeding with its planned launch in 2011. For example: facility and club site visits, drafting rules and regulations, funding agreements, further clarification of regional catchment area and adjudication.

In answer to three important questions-

1. How do we know the league will not be cancelled or deferred again?

We cannot guarantee that this will not happen if significant commercial FA contracts and investment income is lost. We are planning for a 2011 launch and if this changes, we will tell you as soon as possible.

2. When will you be able to re-open bids and give us the certainty we need?

We will update you in September 2009, with the goal of re-opening bids in the last quarter of 2009, announcing successful clubs in the first quarter of 2010, one year ahead of launch.

3. Can The FA and the clubs meet to talk in greater detail about how we might address some of the unresolved problems which have been identified? For example, the importance and difficulty of attracting broadcast and commercial sponsorship, reserve league issues, facility issues, and the regional spread of clubs?

Yes, we will organise such a meeting as soon as possible for the interested clubs and confirm a date.

http://www.thefa.com/Leagues/WomensPremierLeague/NewsAndFeatures/2009/superleague_triesman_050609.aspx (http://www.thefa.com/Leagues/WomensPremierLeague/NewsAndFeatures/2009/superleague_triesman_050609.aspx)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on June 05, 2009, 09:58:23 PM
So they "do not want the Super League to lose momentum" - well, it was them that stopped the momentum in the first place  :D
Title: Re: FA Women's Super League meeting - June
Post by: shlj on June 06, 2009, 12:17:25 AM

In answer to three important questions-

1. How do we know the league will not be cancelled or deferred again?

We cannot guarantee that this will not happen if significant commercial FA contracts and investment income is lost. We are planning for a 2011 launch and if this changes, we will tell you as soon as possible.


To be honest I have always thought the money invested in womens footie was a small percentage of the whole FA budget and the Superleague should have been launched as planned.
How many more players will leave for the WPS next spring?
Title: Re: FA Women's Super League meeting - June
Post by: John on June 06, 2009, 03:23:57 AM

In answer to three important questions-

1. How do we know the league will not be cancelled or deferred again?

We cannot guarantee that this will not happen if significant commercial FA contracts and investment income is lost. We are planning for a 2011 launch and if this changes, we will tell you as soon as possible.


To be honest I have always thought the money invested in womens footie was a small percentage of the whole FA budget and the Superleague should have been launched as planned.
How many more players will leave for the WPS next spring?

They had to make tough decisions though.  It would have been a lot harder to take had the women's game been the only ones to suffer cutbacks.

The FA would have looked at all the financial commitments it had across the board and then decided what ones were non essential at this point in time.  They were probably thinking that the women's league can still function in its current format. The new league is an improvement to the game.  It is not critical in that it would collapse if they did not continue with the new league.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on June 06, 2009, 07:32:28 PM
3. Can The FA and the clubs meet to talk in greater detail about how we might address some of the unresolved problems which have been identified? For example, the...facility issues, and the regional spread of clubs?

Yes, we will organise such a meeting as soon as possible for the interested clubs and confirm a date.

I never did receive a reply to my email to the FA on these - and other - points. The acknowledgment of 'unresolved problems' suggests the FA had no answers - despite what was, at the time, an imminent launch.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on June 07, 2009, 12:08:30 AM
3. Can The FA and the clubs meet to talk in greater detail about how we might address some of the unresolved problems which have been identified? For example, the...facility issues, and the regional spread of clubs?

Yes, we will organise such a meeting as soon as possible for the interested clubs and confirm a date.

I never did receive a reply to my email to the FA on these - and other - points. The acknowledgment of 'unresolved problems' suggests the FA had no answers - despite what was, at the time, an imminent launch.

You'll probably find that your email has "got lost in the post"  ::)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on June 22, 2009, 01:29:33 PM
Here's an interesting comparison from women's cricket from Sunday's Observer.

"Grating as it may be for the England and Wales Cricket Board's many ­critics to admit, the success of the women's team owes much to the ECB.

"The ECB have played a major role in this, as have Sport England and Chance to Shine," Charlotte Edwards, the ­captain, said. "We've been a priority for the ECB and now the results are ­starting to pay dividends. Iit's really nice for the players to be able to give something back to them.

"To be perfectly honest we're the envy of a lot of the teams here. Obviously we've had a lot of money pumped into us over the last few years and I think now we're the envy of a lot of other ­countries and they're trying to emulate what we've been doing. That's a good step for ­women's cricket, it's not just about ­England, it's about trying to raise the profile of women's cricket and with the ECB taking that step I think it will help kick Cricket Australia and the BCCI [in India] into helping their women be more ­successful."

The Australian team have certainly been casting covetous glances at the coaching contracts which enable the English women to play full-time, although Cricket Australia introduced a similar scheme last summer. The problems ­facing ­women's cricket are typified by the dilemma facing Ellyse Perry, Australia's 18-year-old fast bowler who dismissed Edwards yesterday with a bouncer. Perry has also played international football for Australia. If cricket is to keep hold of her, it needs to provide her with a viable living.

Players have already been lost to other sports. South Africa's Johmari Logtenberg quit the game aged 19, having played 29 times for her country, to take up a career in golf, saying she refused to "play for charity". If women's cricket is to thrive, it needs to be able to lure ­talent away from other sports with ­bigger ­profiles and greater profits. Today's final at Lord's will be another step in that direction. England, for once, are leading the world in the way they run and play a sport."

Food for thought for the FA.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/jun/20/engand-women-world-twenty20-final
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on June 23, 2009, 10:51:15 PM
Here's an interesting comparison from women's cricket from Sunday's Observer.

"Grating as it may be for the England and Wales Cricket Board's many ­critics to admit, the success of the women's team owes much to the ECB.

"The ECB have played a major role in this, as have Sport England and Chance to Shine," Charlotte Edwards, the ­captain, said. "We've been a priority for the ECB and now the results are ­starting to pay dividends. Iit's really nice for the players to be able to give something back to them.

"To be perfectly honest we're the envy of a lot of the teams here. Obviously we've had a lot of money pumped into us over the last few years and I think now we're the envy of a lot of other ­countries and they're trying to emulate what we've been doing. That's a good step for ­women's cricket, it's not just about ­England, it's about trying to raise the profile of women's cricket and with the ECB taking that step I think it will help kick Cricket Australia and the BCCI [in India] into helping their women be more ­successful."

The Australian team have certainly been casting covetous glances at the coaching contracts which enable the English women to play full-time, although Cricket Australia introduced a similar scheme last summer. The problems ­facing ­women's cricket are typified by the dilemma facing Ellyse Perry, Australia's 18-year-old fast bowler who dismissed Edwards yesterday with a bouncer. Perry has also played international football for Australia. If cricket is to keep hold of her, it needs to provide her with a viable living.

Players have already been lost to other sports. South Africa's Johmari Logtenberg quit the game aged 19, having played 29 times for her country, to take up a career in golf, saying she refused to "play for charity". If women's cricket is to thrive, it needs to be able to lure ­talent away from other sports with ­bigger ­profiles and greater profits. Today's final at Lord's will be another step in that direction. England, for once, are leading the world in the way they run and play a sport."

Food for thought for the FA.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/jun/20/engand-women-world-twenty20-final

And the England (and Wales) women have won the Ashes, the 50 overs WC and the Twenty20 WC.

I'll bet it willl be forgotten when they announce the Sports Team of the Year  :'(

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on June 24, 2009, 08:51:47 PM
No doubt.

I once worked for the BBC and did the transport for Sports Review of the Year in 1993.

The women won the cricket World Cup that year - the first time since 1973 - and barely got a mention.

I had to pour one of the girls into a taxi at the end of the night and she was still cursing the injustice of it all as I closed the door.

She said, and I quote: "We only won the whole f****** World Cup!"
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on June 25, 2009, 10:56:26 PM
No doubt.

I once worked for the BBC and did the transport for Sports Review of the Year in 1993.

The women won the cricket World Cup that year - the first time since 1973 - and barely got a mention.

I had to pour one of the girls into a taxi at the end of the night and she was still cursing the injustice of it all as I closed the door.

She said, and I quote: "We only won the whole f****** World Cup!"

That sounds like what's going to happen this year, I'm afraid :(
No idea who will replace them as yet though  :-\

But - they chose the England RU team in 2007 after they'd failed to win the WC - they reached the final, but lost by a lower score to a team that had hammered them earlier on, so - an improvement, I suppose.
If they regard that as better than Arsenal ladies winning the quadruple - it just goes to show what they think of women's sport in general  :'(

So far - and there is a long way to go, let's hope the cricketers win it ;)
But - I imagine they'd be more likely to support the England men being runners-up in the Ashes series  :D

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on June 26, 2009, 03:39:46 PM
Hopefully, Faye, Casey, Kelly and co. can put in a late bid for team of the year at the Euros.

That'll put the proverbial cat among the pigeons at the Beeb.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on June 26, 2009, 07:57:26 PM
Hopefully, Faye, Casey, Kelly and co. can put in a late bid for team of the year at the Euros.

That'll put the proverbial cat among the pigeons at the Beeb.

That'd defo be a good one ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on July 30, 2009, 06:22:29 PM
I heard last week-end Man United would be a potential franchise in association with a local team who plays already at a proper level.
I just wonder if well known supporters of the club ( Sanderson, Scheuber or Spencer) would be tempted to play there in the future  ???
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on August 01, 2009, 01:20:09 AM
I heard last week-end Man United would be a potential franchise in association with a local team who plays already at a proper level.
I just wonder if well known supporters of the club ( Sanderson, Scheuber or Spencer) would be tempted to play there in the future  ???

Won't Man City pay more for a franchise?  ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on August 01, 2009, 10:51:30 PM
Interesting.

It's been four years since Utd jettisoned their female counterparts. If the rumour is true, I wonder why the sudden desire to return?

"Manchester United, the richest football club in the world, have turned their back on the women's game barely three months before the Women's Euro 2005 is staged in the north-west of England.

By the time England play their first match of the tournament, against Finland at the City of Manchester Stadium on June 5, the name Manchester United will no longer exist in women's football. From next season the Premiership giant's only contribution to the country's fastest growing female sport will be restricted to the coaching of girls up to the age of 16 through the club's community scheme.

The decision comes at a time when clubs such as Arsenal and Chelsea are providing significant funding and commitment to their female sections.

Philip Townsend, United's director of communications, said: "Our aims in the women's game are best served by concentrating on youngsters. We want to be community based and our resources are better deployed at the level of school-age children rather than adults."

United's move has shocked the establishment. The FA vice-chairman, Ray Kiddell, who heads the FA women's football committee, said: "It's very disappointing. The progress of women's football can be really helped by professional clubs taking women's teams under their umbrella and it's a blow to the game that a great club like Manchester United will no longer be doing this."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2005/feb/21/newsstory.sport2

Plus the whole franchise or 'buy a place in the top division' thing worries me. I know Loughborough were being mooted as possible Superleague candidates last time around..

Still, the FA's announcement on their plans is due next month...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on August 02, 2009, 10:59:10 PM
Interesting.

It's been four years since Utd jettisoned their female counterparts. If the rumour is true, I wonder why the sudden desire to return?

"Manchester United, the richest football club in the world, have turned their back on the women's game barely three months before the Women's Euro 2005 is staged in the north-west of England.

By the time England play their first match of the tournament, against Finland at the City of Manchester Stadium on June 5, the name Manchester United will no longer exist in women's football. From next season the Premiership giant's only contribution to the country's fastest growing female sport will be restricted to the coaching of girls up to the age of 16 through the club's community scheme.

The decision comes at a time when clubs such as Arsenal and Chelsea are providing significant funding and commitment to their female sections.

Philip Townsend, United's director of communications, said: "Our aims in the women's game are best served by concentrating on youngsters. We want to be community based and our resources are better deployed at the level of school-age children rather than adults."

United's move has shocked the establishment. The FA vice-chairman, Ray Kiddell, who heads the FA women's football committee, said: "It's very disappointing. The progress of women's football can be really helped by professional clubs taking women's teams under their umbrella and it's a blow to the game that a great club like Manchester United will no longer be doing this."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2005/feb/21/newsstory.sport2

Plus the whole franchise or 'buy a place in the top division' thing worries me. I know Loughborough were being mooted as possible Superleague candidates last time around..

Still, the FA's announcement on their plans is due next month...

I don't like that idea either. Whether or not we approve of Arabs etc putting millions into men's teams, they can't invest in, say, a League 2 team and expect them to be moved to the Premiership automatically.
So why should it be different here?

But - we may find out more next month then.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: treble99 on August 03, 2009, 01:59:47 PM
Knowing coaches at Man United, from what they tell me, there was never any suggestion that Man U would be getting involved in this, indeed why would they?? not having the personnel, just starting their centre of excellence teams and U18's team, the suggestion that they would "take-over" an existing womens team to play as "Man United" is questionable re-ethics? and if that was the case surely "the existing Team" would not be on the level as say the likes of Arsenal, Everton, and other top flight teams etc otherwise they be pushing for a place already wouldn't they? so what would be the point?

I hear depending on how the U18's develop, Man U will progress to open age but in the lower tiers and build from there. 
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on August 05, 2009, 10:46:11 PM
Knowing coaches at Man United, from what they tell me, there was never any suggestion that Man U would be getting involved in this, indeed why would they?? not having the personnel, just starting their centre of excellence teams and U18's team, the suggestion that they would "take-over" an existing womens team to play as "Man United" is questionable re-ethics? and if that was the case surely "the existing Team" would not be on the level as say the likes of Arsenal, Everton, and other top flight teams etc otherwise they be pushing for a place already wouldn't they? so what would be the point?

I hear depending on how the U18's develop, Man U will progress to open age but in the lower tiers and build from there. 

That's fair enough, but there have been so many different tales about franchises taking over etc, that we're starting to believe anything  ::)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on August 08, 2009, 10:15:12 PM
There have been so many different tales about franchises taking over etc, that we're starting to believe anything  ::)

Well, I'm thinking of going in drag and playing...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on August 08, 2009, 11:32:25 PM
There have been so many different tales about franchises taking over etc, that we're starting to believe anything  ::)

Well, I'm thinking of going in drag and playing...

It seems that if you pay enough they might let you  :D
Title: England's Helsinki heroics put Super League back on track for 2011
Post by: shlj on September 12, 2009, 01:07:23 PM
England's achievement in reaching the European Championship final is to be rewarded, with the Football Association set to announce that the deferred summer Super League will definitely have its inaugural season in two years' time.

The original start date of 2010 was put back to the dismay of many, including the England coach, Hope Powell – a firm supporter of the Super League concept – in the wake of the demise of the FA's broadcast partner Setanta.

The governing body is still talking with other broadcasting companies in an attempt to replace the loss of revenue. But the FA chief executive, Ian Watmore, who along with the chairman, Lord Triesman, watched England's 6-2 defeat by Germany in the final in Helsinki's Olympic Stadium, is confident that approval for 2011 will be given at next Friday's board meeting.

"There's a lot of support from the chairman and I to make sure that the Super League goes ahead," Watmore said. "It was on the agenda when I came into the job and, while it may have been deferred, 2011 remains the starting point as far as I'm concerned. We need to do it and we're going to do it."

Watmore, who on joining the FA in June quickly seconded himself to the women's committee, added: "Reaching the final was a tremendous achievement by Hope and her team and now we need to use it as the catalyst to take the game forward.

"If we can build on this success then I reckon there's a tipping point where women's football could really take off. If we can get more football fans to see women's football at the highest level, I think they would get behind it and it could become as big as any women's sport in the world."

Three of England's US-based players are set to sign for their previous club Arsenal on loan during the American close season. The Boston Breakers striker Kelly Smith and one of her club colleagues, the right-back Alex Scott, plus the Chicago Red Stars winger Karen Carney, will train with the Gunners squad and play in selected matches before returning to the US in February.

All three will have a break first, but Smith confirmed: "I think the idea is we play in some of the big games, against the likes of Chelsea and in the Champions League. But it means it's a year-long season, so we'll have to pace ourselves."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/sep/11/england-women-european-championship-super-league
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Aphrodites Child on September 12, 2009, 02:30:10 PM
a 2010 start was supposed to be a certainty this time last year, but a 2011 start will now stand a much better chance because of reaching Euro final, Under-19s winning their Euro and not least England men qualifying for South Africa
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on September 17, 2009, 12:58:56 AM
a 2010 start was supposed to be a certainty this time last year, but a 2011 start will now stand a much better chance because of reaching Euro final, Under-19s winning their Euro and not least England men qualifying for South Africa

I'll believe it when it happens  :D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Aphrodites Child on September 17, 2009, 08:14:28 PM
agreed - I, too, will believe it when it happens, but excuses of lack of money are less credible when you consider millions which will be heading FA's way from World Cup in 2010
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on September 17, 2009, 09:29:41 PM
agreed - I, too, will believe it when it happens, but excuses of lack of money are less credible when you consider millions which will be heading FA's way from World Cup in 2010

Precisely - and all the money they already have floating about, which seems to be readily available when the men's game is concerned.
Title: FA statement: Women's Super League
Post by: shlj on September 28, 2009, 12:11:45 PM
Application process will open in October.
Following last week’s Board meeting, The FA can today confirm the next step towards the launch of The FA Women’s Super League.

The application process will open in October 2009 for clubs seeking to apply for a place in the new Super League, due to be launched in March 2011.

FA Chief Executive, Ian Watmore, said: “We are delighted to be able to open the application process for the Super League and we welcome all applicants into this process. Our ambition is for The FA Women’s Super League to be an exciting, competitive and commercially attractive product.”

The application process is open and any club which meets the minimum criteria can apply from October 2009.

For further information on the application process and criteria to meet, please call the Super League advice line on 0844 980 0380 or alternatively e-mail Super.League@TheFA.com.

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/NewsAndFeatures/2009/SuperLeagueApp.aspx
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on September 28, 2009, 01:14:47 PM
FA confirms that women's Super League will start in England in 2011


The Football Association will announce tomorrow that the proposed Super League, which was controversially deferred from its original start date, will go ahead in the summer of 2011 with an eight-club structure and a long-term hope of professional status for its players.

The announcement will be greeted with relief in the women's game but it seems unlikely stop the worrying player drain to the American professional league. The Chelsea striker Lianne Sanderson and the Everton midfielder Fara Williams are wanted by Philadelphia and if both players move eight of England's squad at the recent Euro 2009 finals will be playing their club football across the Atlantic by next summer.

The FA's chief executive, Ian Watmore, said: "If the summer league takes off then we'll have to see how our best English players can become professional in this country. At the moment the cream are heading off to the States and we'd rather they were playing here, so we are keen to reverse the trend."

Reversing the trend may be quite a task. The Boston striker Kelly Smith, one of six England players who have enjoyed a successful first season in the WPSL, said: "I think that other players will leave the English game to play professionally in America. If a player has a chance to turn pro, they should grab it with both hands. It's the thing you love doing and you can make a job of it in America, whereas you can't in England. Who's to say in 10, 15 years that might change, but I don't see it happening within the next couple of years."


By Tony Leighton. guardian.co.uk, Sunday 27 September 2009 18.44 BST

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/sep/27/womens-football-summer-league
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on September 28, 2009, 02:08:18 PM
Is it just about turning pro?  Wouldn't they still leave?  Given the choice of being  a pro in phildelphia or some other top us city v doncaster or blackburn ?  I cant see the cobbled street of the UK winning..

Hey don't get me wrong.. I love my country and love living here.. but I am not a young women wiht an exciting life ahead.... I dont think just offering pro status will swing it for english players.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on September 28, 2009, 02:17:11 PM
I guess it depends on the wage level as well.
If the PL team can match or better  the WPS team, the girls might stay here.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on September 28, 2009, 02:30:37 PM
Is it just about turning pro?  Wouldn't they still leave?  Given the choice of being  a pro in phildelphia or some other top us city v doncaster or blackburn ?  I cant see the cobbled street of the UK winning..

Hey don't get me wrong.. I love my country and love living here.. but I am not a young women wiht an exciting life ahead.... I dont think just offering pro status will swing it for english players.

Your views don’t reflect the views of the actual players. Look at what Anita Asante recently said:

Anita Asante, who plays for Sky Blue in New Jersey, said: “We would definitely consider coming back to play in an English league if this happens. I know lots of the American girls say they would love to play in England because of the football heritage we have.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article6830903.ece
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on October 02, 2009, 09:52:14 AM
Women are still being put on a pedestal

Of the various criticisms levelled at the FA recently by Gerry Sutcliffe, the Sports Minister, the one that caused most surprise within its new offices at Wembley was that the governing body had neglected women’s football.

The women’s game had been a priority for Ian Watmore long before England finished as runners-up in the European Championship finals last month, losing 6-2 to Germany in the final in Helsinki.

Even as Sutcliffe raised his concerns, plans were being finalised for the long-awaited announcement to launch a “Super League” in women’s football in England, which is designed to ensure that players such as Kelly Smith, Alex Scott, Karen Carney and Eniola Aluko no longer have to move to the United States to play professionally. “I have always been keen on the women’s game and perhaps subliminally some of my interest came from supporting a club [Arsenal] that has invested in being successful in women’s football,” Watmore, the FA chief executive, said. “I’ve always thought it was a really significant part.

“In my whole professional career, I’ve tried to promote areas of diversity and in football the women’s game was an obvious thing to want to come and do. We’ve got terrific foundations now for moving forward.

“What we haven’t got is that professional league that means the very best women’s players can both earn a living in this country and, by being televised, complete the cycle of attracting more people back into the game. That’s what we’re now trying to do and we want to get that in place from the 2011 season onwards.

“We’re inviting the clubs to put forward their offers to participate in the game in the hope of getting started in 2011. It’s now up to the clubs to come forward and from there we can work out the mechanics of it and start attracting sponsors and broadcasting partners.

“We need a lot of things to happen — clubs have got to step up, we need the sponsorship, the broadcasters, and we need to put on the competition and it needs to be successful — but we’re determined to go ahead with it.”

By Oliver Kay

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article6857825.ece
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on October 02, 2009, 04:35:33 PM
Belles' future on the line

Published Date:  01 October 2009 By Paul Goodwin


DONCASTER Belles are pinning their hopes on winning a place in the potentially lucrative Women's Super League, according to boss John Buckley.

From next month clubs from around the country can apply to become inaugural members of the FA's revolutionary eight team division.

The Super League will be launched in March 2011 - turning the game into a summer sport - with the hope of eventually securing professional status for its players.

Buckley, who saw his side lose 2-0 to Premier League leaders Millwall Lionesses on Sunday, says it is imperative that the Belles remain among England's elite.

He said: "We are desperate to get in it.

"It's massive for the club - and massive for me.

"If we don't get in then deep down you worry what type of future the club has. The Belles have always played at a good level.

"And all the top players will want to play in the top league."

He added: "Our main concern is that if the selection process is done geographically then Leeds, who have the backing of Carnegie (Leeds Met] University, have got a strong bid.

"But we are in the process of turning into a different type of organisation. We're hoping to link with Sheffield University and we're doing a lot of work on bringing money into the club.

"It takes time to build that up.

"But all we can do is put together the best application we possibly can and hope for the best."

The start of the Super League was deferred from next summer to March 2011 after the collapse of Setanta's television deal with the FA.

It is hoped that the new league will attract live television coverage and significant investment from sponsors.

http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/free-press-sport/Belles-future-on-the-line.5695929.jp
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on October 03, 2009, 10:59:49 AM
Of the various criticisms levelled at the FA recently by Gerry Sutcliffe, the Sports Minister, the one that caused most surprise within its new offices at Wembley was that the governing body had neglected women’s football.

The women’s game had been a priority for Ian Watmore long before England finished as runners-up in the European Championship finals last month,

Talk is cheap.. I havent seen any great support (or increase in support) form the FA for womens football in years :(  maybe I am missing something?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: treble99 on October 03, 2009, 01:15:15 PM
Why doesn't The FA introduce the parity law like they have in the USA, whereby if a club (Male- amateur or pro) with a girls/womens set up gives the males say a budget of $10k, they have to give the girls/women the same. Teams here amateur or pro should have to do the same, girls centre of excellences within pro clubs get nothing compared to boys academies, who get free kit, boots etc. How many pro clubs benefit from having girls/womens use their name but dont reciprocate, as you know the majority are self funding and girls have to pay subs, centre of excellence / academy boys dont?!! ..

If the FA introduce parity maybe more of our girls wont want to leave for other shores!!
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on October 03, 2009, 01:46:32 PM
I'm a bit of a free market and self sustainability man myself - however I do agree with the above post. It was the FA and the cartel of men's football that ruined women's football in this country in the first place - they should be made to put it back on its feet, and a parity law as in the U.S. might be an excellent way of enforcing just that. IMHO there is nothing else in the wind at the moment that even comes close.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on October 06, 2009, 11:56:00 PM
Of the various criticisms levelled at the FA recently by Gerry Sutcliffe, the Sports Minister, the one that caused most surprise within its new offices at Wembley was that the governing body had neglected women’s football.

The women’s game had been a priority for Ian Watmore long before England finished as runners-up in the European Championship finals last month,

Talk is cheap.. I havent seen any great support (or increase in support) form the FA for womens football in years :(  maybe I am missing something?

Ian Watmore has only recently taken up his position at the FA.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Aphrodites Child on October 07, 2009, 03:43:23 PM
Since the FA took over the women's game circa 1993, they have gradually improved matters, but there is still more that they can do.

One very good example is to increase prize money in FA Cup - at the moment the total for the competition is less that men's winners (one club) get in third round - do men's clubs really need the huge sums involved for later stages of FA Cup - surely sposnsorship deals etc are readily forthcoming for games shown live on tv

The England set up has grown with the various Under-15/16/17/18/19/20/21/23 sides

Title: Women's football: We've earned right to join pro league, says Mulhern
Post by: Rach_83 on October 14, 2009, 04:33:21 PM
Women's football: We've earned right to join pro league, says Mulhern

Published Date: 12 October 2009      By Neil Watson

Women's football manager of the year Mick Mulhern can't wait for the game's next big leap forward – but says Sunderland MUST be involved.
The Wearsiders' manager was named the top boss in the women's game during the summer after a superb season.

Sunderland won the Women's Premier League Northern Division title – and promotion into the national league – as well as reaching the FA Cup final where they were edged out 2-1 by all-conquering Arsenal in front of over 23,000 fans at Derby's Pride Park and a TV audience of around 3 million.

That game marked the end of Vic Akers' trophy-laden reign as Arsenal boss – leaving 42-year-old Mulhern as the longest-serving current manager, having now completed ten years with Sunderland.

But the detective constable in the police force has little time to reflect on the past, especially with the prospect of a major change to the women's game in this country on the horizon.

The Football Association is planning to introduce a professional women's league, starting in 2011.

It is hoped to build the profile of the women's game through greater publicity, including TV coverage.

The season will run from March to October, bringing the game more in line with the international football calendar as well as providing a more "family friendly" atmosphere for spectators in the warmer weather.

Girls football is growing rapidly and it is now the most popular team sport for females in the country. The Russell Foster Tyne and Wear Youth League now has 90 all-girl teams playing competitive football, just two years after they were introduced.

And the FA – with Government pressure pushing it on – believes it needs to create role models at the top of the game to further encourage participation.

A professional game would do that, and help stop the exodus of top England players from the domestic game, including the likes of Kelly Smith, Alex Scott, and Eniola Aluko, who are now plying their trade in the paid ranks of teams in the United States.

Already 17 players in the England senior set-up are on central contracts, including former Sunderland players Jill Scott, Steph Houghton and Carly Telford, who all developed under the coaching of Mulhern.

"Women's football has come on massively, even in the ten years I have been at Sunderland," said Mulhern.

"Yes, a long time ago is was seen as a bit of a joke. But not now.

"At the top level all the girls are true athletes. The England programme has helped – the girls involved in that are trained and monitored properly.

"They are extremely fit and talented footballers.

"The England teams are now doing very well. The seniors reached the final of the European Championships and the U19s won theirs. It's the right time to take the next step forward, and a professional league is an exciting prospect."

But there is no guarantee that Sunderland will be involved in an eight-team Super League.

All interested clubs have until December to apply for membership with details of their plans.

The FA will then decide which clubs are selected. Each will then receive £70,000 a year for two seasons (there will be no relegation in that time) with strict guidelines on how the money must be spent, with an eye on clubs becoming self-sufficient. Each club must also show, in their bid, that they are able match the figure given by the FA.

Mulhern believes that Sunderland have earned the right to be selected for the new league, but knows it is not a certainty.

"We are the top club in the North East and have been for years," he said.

"If the FA wants to develop the game around the country, then this region needs to be represented.

"We have an excellent set-up here. Look at the players who have come through the ranks.

"Jill Scott, Steph Houghton and Carly Telford came through with us and now part of the senior England squad.

"We now have two England U23 internationals, five in the England U19 squad, and two players in the England 17 squad.

"Alongside Everton, Leeds and Birmingham, we have supplied more players into the England international set-up than any other clubs in the whole league structure.

"The FA can look at us and see we are a club that is already achieving.

"They should look at us and say 'with a little bit of support, we can push Sunderland to the next level. They have the structure in place; they are an ideal club for the new league'.

"We have made massive strides already and can make that next big step."

The only North East rival bid could come from Newcastle Ladies.

They have been in the shadow of Sunderland for many years but with the right backing they could possibly appear an attractive proposition to the FA.

Sunderland have started the new season in the top flight well. With nine points from six games, the Wearsiders lie fourth top.

Much now rests on the shoulders of club chairman Maurice Alderson, who must put together Sunderland's bid for a place in the new league.

"It's vital we get in," added Mulhern.

"A tremendous amount of hard work has gone into the last ten years.

"No one at the club gets paid a penny. The players – who come from all over the North East – pay for the right to play for Sunderland.

"We can't go on the way we are. It's living from hand to mouth; relying on handouts and sponsorship from local businesses, and doing our own fund-raising.

"We can't miss out now, and I believe this can become a big success.

"We know we have a lot to offer the game and it would be great for the city of Sunderland if we are accepted."

http://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/Women39s-football-We39ve-earned-right.5724647.jp (http://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/Women39s-football-We39ve-earned-right.5724647.jp)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: pat51 on October 14, 2009, 05:11:32 PM
Good luck to Sunderland, hope they make it to the Superleague as they produce so many good young players. It will be interesting to see which clubs do apply and whether the F A look to represent all the regions in their final choice or go purely on the strength of the bids.
Title: Re: Women's football: We've earned right to join pro league, says Mulhern
Post by: Gooner on October 14, 2009, 05:22:35 PM
"Alongside Everton, Leeds and Birmingham, we have supplied more players into the England international set-up than any other clubs in the whole league structure.

Strange that Mick doesn't mention the one club who I think have supplied the most players to England. Currently Arsenal have 6 players in the under 15 squad, 5 in the under 17s, 5 in the under 19s and 10 players who have represented England at senior level over the past year or so. Also 4 other players (Stoney, Susi, Buet and Stoney) are Arsenal developed.

I do hope Sunderland are included in the new league because they are a nice club.
Title: Re: Women's football: We've earned right to join pro league, says Mulhern
Post by: pat51 on October 14, 2009, 06:08:40 PM
"Alongside Everton, Leeds and Birmingham, we have supplied more players into the England international set-up than any other clubs in the whole league structure.

Strange that Mick doesn't mention the one club who I think have supplied the most players to England. Currently Arsenal have 6 players in the under 15 squad, 5 in the under 17s, 5 in the under 19s and 10 players who have represented England at senior level over the past year or so. Also 4 other players (Stoney, Susi, Buet and Stoney) are Arsenal developed.

I do hope Sunderland are included in the new league because they are a nice club.
Agree with the comment about Sunderland. Is the fourth ALFC exile Lianne Sanderson ?
Title: Re: Women's football: We've earned right to join pro league, says Mulhern
Post by: Gooner on October 15, 2009, 11:10:46 AM
"Alongside Everton, Leeds and Birmingham, we have supplied more players into the England international set-up than any other clubs in the whole league structure.

Strange that Mick doesn't mention the one club who I think have supplied the most players to England. Currently Arsenal have 6 players in the under 15 squad, 5 in the under 17s, 5 in the under 19s and 10 players who have represented England at senior level over the past year or so. Also 4 other players (Stoney, Susi, Buet and Stoney) are Arsenal developed.

I do hope Sunderland are included in the new league because they are a nice club.
Agree with the comment about Sunderland. Is the fourth ALFC exile Lianne Sanderson ?

It should have read 11 represented England senior team while still at Arsenal and 3 more who came through at Arsenal.

Scott, Asante, White, Phillip, Yorston, Carney, Davison, Carney, Yankey, Chapman, Smith.

Buet, Susi and Stoney.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Billy Hunt on October 15, 2009, 03:10:37 PM
Have I read it wrong? But if Sunderland are living "hand to mouth" how are they gonna match the 70k the FA gonna put up for each succesful applicant
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: pat51 on October 15, 2009, 05:08:44 PM
Have I read it wrong? But if Sunderland are living "hand to mouth" how are they gonna match the 70k the FA gonna put up for each succesful applicant
      That is the big question....I suppose gaining the support of the mens club would be the obvious route for some clubs, like they did in Holland. 
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Rach_83 on November 01, 2009, 10:10:16 PM

FA to launch full-time professional Women's Super League in 2011

• Clubs must match FA's investment for first two years
• Annual salary of £20-30,000 for top players may deter clubs

Tony Leighton  -  guardian.co.uk, Sunday 1 November 2009 20.58 GMT


Full-time professionalism will be introduced to the English game when the eight-team Women's Super League is launched in 2011, clubs have been told by the Football Association. The FA wants each club to pay its top four players an annual salary of £20-30,000, a demand that the new league's project leader, Sally Horrox, admitted might deter some of the prospective founder members.

"My one concern," said Horrox, "is that we might be scaring a few of the clubs off. But we are raising the bar for the women's game and we are serious about player payments and other minimum requirements."

Another of the requirements is that clubs must match the £70,000 a year that the FA is prepared to give each team for the first two years of the league's operation. "We can't afford to pay our players expenses, let alone £30,000 a year," said the Sunderland chairman, Maurice Alderson. "We run our whole club on less than half of that. I love the concept of the league and I'd love be part of it, but it's going to be very difficult."

Doncaster Belles are likewise among the current Premier League's poorer clubs, but the chairman Jonathan James said: "We definitely want in – our business plan is 90% complete and I'm very confident that we will raise the necessary finance."

The FA is determined to push ahead with the league despite current financial restraints. "With the collapse of Setanta," said the chief executive, Ian Watmore, "we've got less money and we have to be clear about putting money behind priority programmes – and the Women's Super League is a priority programme."

In yesterday's League Cup quarter-finals Arsenal beat Keynsham 4-0, Chelsea won 8-0 against Bristol and Everton beat Doncaster 3-0. The tie between Leeds and Blackburn was postponed because of a waterlogged pitch.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/nov/01/womens-super-league-launch-fa (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/nov/01/womens-super-league-launch-fa)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Aphrodites Child on November 02, 2009, 11:11:56 AM
how much money will be going into FA Coffers from South Africa in 2010 - presume a visit to fifa.com might provide some clues
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on November 09, 2009, 01:32:25 PM
New Birmingham City owners pledge to support women's team

• 'They are family,' says new vice-chairman
• Blues will be able to join new Super League

The recent takeover of Birmingham City by the Hong Kong businessman Carson Yeung should bring huge benefits to the Blues women's team, who for the first time since their formation 41 years ago are set to become part of the main club.

Before a meeting between the two parties, Sammy Yu, the Premier League club's vice-chairman, said: "We have a responsibility to support them. They are family. I can guarantee we will do the best we can in whatever way we can to provide whatever they need. Hopefully we can find a way for a long-term relationship."

One critical item of need will be finance, as Birmingham are hoping to become part of the new Women's Super League and are thus required to meet the Football Association's demand of a £70,000-per-year minimum spend on runningthe club.

The women's team chairman, Steve Shipway, said: "We shall need some financial help but we will not ask Birmingham City to simply throw money at us. It's great that they are taking a real interest, though, and I feel very positive about the future."

The empathy of the new owners with the women's club is in stark contrast to the disregard of the previous regime, whose 2005 withdrawal of interest after providing a letter of intent to support the women resulted in what would have been closure but for an 11th-hour donation of £10,000 from the parent of a player.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/nov/08/womens-fotball-birmingham-city
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Rach_83 on November 09, 2009, 09:42:16 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on November 10, 2009, 04:46:42 AM
I really wonder what will be the minimum budget and where it will come from because it looks like a huge jump from todays budget for all the teams.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on November 10, 2009, 05:31:58 PM
According to Tony Leighton's report each of the 8 clubs will have to pay 4 players between £20k - £30k each.  The questions that this raises are as follows:

1. Would the Team Manager and his staff want similar wages?

2. Who decides which players get these wages?  Or is it going to be England players only and these players are going to be spread throughout the league.  This means that Arsenal and Everton team will have to be broken up as only 4 wages are available for the top players.

3.  How much are the remaining members of the squad going to get paid? If, at all...  Are the remaining squad players going to get paid £16,000 a year as a part-time player?

4.  If a player like Gemma Davison (Arsenal) doesn't get a TOP PLAYER wage, is she going to play in the USA - W League and get paid    as a full-time professional?  These TOP PLAYER wages will cause resentment and drive players to the US where they can get paid and play in a better climate.

5.  Are the parent clubs going to have to recruit an additional 20-22 players and staff (inc. doctors, physio's and admin staff).  This will push the costs even higher and higher.  Women's football doesn't make any money for clubs and will be seen as a drain on otherwise tight budgets.

£70,000 a season  doesn't even come close....clubs need to be looking at a budget of around £200,000 a season.

 It's not fair on loyal players (who play for a club for 5-6 years) only to be forced out of the club to make way for a England international, due to the fact that there current club only has 4 wages to give out.

Which 4 players at Arsenal are going to receive TOP PLAYER wages? - what happens to the rest who aren't English?

The only fair system is that all clubs have a 1st team squad of 18-20 players and they are paid £16,000 each by the FA. 

If a Premier League club was to get in financial trouble (Portsmouth, Hull) or be relegated then the clamour by the fans will be to 'pull the plug' on the women's team.

Women's attendances average under 200 per game.  Break this down to actual supporters and don't include friends, family and players (of other clubs) that watch, this drops it even lower.  Are admission prices going to go up - one club already charges £5 a game.

A Super League isn't sustainable unless paid for 'in full' by the FA.  Without female specific football stadiums the clubs can't look at generating sufficient income to be self-sustaining.

How many clubs are going to say 'you aren't using our pitch in the summer' - for starters that rules out Rugby League grounds such as Widnes & Leigh Sports Village.

Are the FA going to fund 8 stadiums around the country?  Clubs can't justify having 2 stadiums.

No clubs have 2nd stadiums for reserve teams and I doubt they'll let the women's teams use the main stadiums during the 'pitch growing' season.

It will only be a matter of time before another club is either dumped by it's parent club or goes bust because it doesn't have a big enough income.

For me a 16 team winter league (with promotion and relegation) is the only sensible option.

A TV highlights package and a proper marketing campaign is needed until clubs can find a way of building there own 'female specific stadiums' and become clubs in there own right.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on November 11, 2009, 11:37:51 AM
The whole thing is a dogs dinner,,,(no pun intended)....its a pity more energy had been spent by the FA to encourage a support for the game then they would have had something to sell....A lot of the clubs already see the woman's teams as a drain on resources and resent paying out for something few people go to see,,,,I don't know what the answer is but I think they have to go back to basics.  Football is a spectator sport so they need to build up a large spectator base and take it form there...They get big crowds for the internationals and cup finals so the support is there they just need to work out how to get them to come to games on a Sunday afternoon,,,,,
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on November 11, 2009, 08:21:44 PM
The whole thing is a dogs dinner,,,(no pun intended)....its a pity more energy had been spent by the FA to encourage a support for the game then they would have had something to sell....A lot of the clubs already see the woman's teams as a drain on resources and resent paying out for something few people go to see,,,,I don't know what the answer is but I think they have to go back to basics.  Football is a spectator sport so they need to build up a large spectator base and take it form there...They get big crowds for the internationals and cup finals so the support is there they just need to work out how to get them to come to games on a Sunday afternoon,,,,,

bob on that!

are they putting the cart before the horse.. are they paying out and setting up before getting the fans..do they really believe thousands are going to turn up to blackburn or leeds or everton games just because its in summer?

If only they had consulted and at least listened to people who have been in the womens game for year after year... 
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on November 11, 2009, 09:28:33 PM
There are loads of information available on the FA page, I will put a summary when I finish reading all the stuff

http://www.thefa.com/Leagues/SuperLeague.aspx
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Rach_83 on November 11, 2009, 11:26:22 PM
The other crazy thing, which no one has mentioned yet is that 2011 is World Cup Year and its in early summer in Germany so its unlikely they will have completed a full season by the time England players have to leave for that. Will ppl new to the game be prepared to put up with that disruption? is it likely to help/hinder players not in England squad  ???
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on November 12, 2009, 01:04:43 AM
The other crazy thing, which no one has mentioned yet is that 2011 is World Cup Year and its in early summer in Germany so its unlikely they will have completed a full season by the time England players have to leave for that. Will ppl new to the game be prepared to put up with that disruption? is it likely to help/hinder players not in England squad  ???

Probably a perfect reason for them to put the whole thing off until 2012 ... thats forward thinking from the fa that is :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on November 12, 2009, 09:03:20 AM
Or maybe they are banking on England not qualifying  :P ( not an easy feat, need to win group and beat another group winner in play off )
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: idh1 on November 12, 2009, 05:39:43 PM
And here we are.

One year on and we're still asking the same questions - along with a few more - and we're still no closer to receiving answers about what we (and presumably the clubs) see as the (im)practicalities.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on November 13, 2009, 08:35:40 AM
You can e-mail them at the adress provided on the website, they do answer quickly.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on November 13, 2009, 10:22:31 PM
You can e-mail them at the adress provided on the website, they do answer quickly.

But do they have any reasonable answers?  :P
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on November 13, 2009, 10:35:46 PM
I am planning to send them a very long e-mail with questions and obversation and see if I get any answer.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on November 13, 2009, 11:51:14 PM
I am planning to send them a very long e-mail with questions and obversation and see if I get any answer.

I'm sure you'll post it all on here ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on November 14, 2009, 12:22:14 AM
I am planning to send them a very long e-mail with questions and obversation and see if I get any answer.

out of office until summer 2012 :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on November 14, 2009, 11:27:50 PM
I am planning to send them a very long e-mail with questions and obversation and see if I get any answer.

out of office until summer 2012 :)

 ;D
Title: a few notes from the documents from the FA
Post by: shlj on November 15, 2009, 10:56:23 PM
Here is what I have found interesting over the numerous documents available on thefa.com. It is not written in any particular order.

Games played from march to october 2011
semi-professional league ideally 8 clubs
two year licence 2011&12
hoping to expand to 12 by 2016
flexible schedule to dovetail with broadcast schedule and international calendar
festival of football in central venue at bank holiday week-end may or august : all teams will play 2 games
all the other leagues stay winter league
season starts to dates that suits broadcaster  :o
superleague clubs enter last 16 of FA Cup
fawpl play the league cup as usual
club development fund 70 000 £ spread over 3 items
salary cap no figure provided (my bet about 250 000 £)
4 players max paid over 20 000£ all other must be paid below 20 000£
central contract money not included in salary cap
plc no longer an obligation as in the first draft !
sept and nov winter friendly fixtures jan and feb pre-season fixtures
20 players maximum ( small number really)
contract and non contract ( according to FIFA rules this is not a status)
minimal strucutre for every club :
1 GM, 1 business development specialist, 1 treasurer, 1 coach, 1 assistant coach, 1 physio, 1 doctor, 1 strength and coordination coach
they expect a minimum of 300 spectators per game...

there are other provisions on ground accounting etc, all availa le to read at thefa.com

 
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on November 15, 2009, 11:38:15 PM
Just a few queries (and there could be many more):

The clubs will enter the last 16 of FA Cup. That currently is the end of January.
But they'll be playing pre-season fixtures in Jan and Feb - is that compatible?

Play the League Cup as usual? We played the quarter finals in November :o

And  - season to start at date that suits broadcaster :o
That means it's out of the hands of FA, clubs etc - not good!
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on November 16, 2009, 02:52:38 PM
the proposals for the Super League throw the costs out of all proportion - it's going to cost of upto £300,000  a season to run.  Where are the 300 fans per game going to come from.  Blackburn's crowds have dropped below 100 (av. 60-70) and clubs like Man City & Preston, (who could apply for future Super League places) get between 40-70.  Without a real sustainable fan-base the Super League is a non-starter.  The game isn't marketed at the moment so no one watches it.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on November 16, 2009, 03:27:57 PM
the proposals for the Super League throw the costs out of all proportion - it's going to cost of up to £300,000  a season to run. 
Agree I actually think it is gonna cost like 350 k per season with about 250 k for the players wages and 100k for the other costs.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Aphrodites Child on November 16, 2009, 03:48:46 PM
Quote
festival of football in central venue at bank holiday week-end may or august : all teams will play 2 games

will these be friendly or competitive matches - if competitive, will the games be additional to the regular fixtures or part of the scheduled fixtures?

If they are part of the scheduled fixtures, who will get the revenue?

It has certain Game 39 undertones..
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on November 16, 2009, 04:08:08 PM
I guess it is part of the regular season , they say it could be 17 to 21 games in one of the documents..
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on November 17, 2009, 09:37:40 PM
Some excellent points made by Bonnie in the Norwegian section of the forum :

For the sake of simplicity, everything here is meant to be general ideas and suggestions for the average team that I think would help establish a more solid fan base. I'm sure some teams may already be doing some of the ideas I'm about to list. If so, good for them. (Also, just to clarify here so I don't have to do it continuously: Everything I'm mentioning can be done on the cheap, even by Toppserien standards.)

The first thing teams need to do is strengthen the supporters they do have. The ones that show up for all, or almost all, home matches. The familiar faces in the crowd. If your core supporters are not dedicated, then you're screwed. Because ultimately, they'll be the ones who help retain new fans.

As far as I could tell from the 2 Roa matches I went to, the crowd doesn't much interact with each other. And really, it doesn't seem like there's any way of talking with others before or after the match unless you take the initiative to strike up a conversation with someone. Which can be a little daunting if everyone's already there with someone.

-- Organize a pre-match event of sorts every so often. Even just 2-3 times a season. Offer free coffee/snacks or the chance to win some merchandise. Get them to come out an hour or two before kickoff. Throw some players into the mix to meet some of the fans. Make it into a mixer. I don't expect people to walk away as best friends, but putting names to faces and

-- Have some place online for fans to talk about the team. A message board dedicated to the team and even league as a whole. This isn't just for the fans that attend matches, but for potential fans as well.

-- Get their information. Their mailing addie, their names, e-mail addresses. It's important for clubs not to let their fans think they don't care about them. Send out postcards during the offseason, the summer break. Invites to the next meet and greet, etc.

-- Keep a matchday page of sorts. What do tickets cost? What about parking? Public transport? Is there covered seating? Concessions? Etc. Make it as easy as possible for someone who's looking to go to a match.

-- And while we'e on the online thing: Clubs shouldn't overlook having the basics readily available on their Web sites at all times. A Toppserien table, schedule, roster with numbers, etc. Things that don't need to be changed all the time. Because if you can't provide that information, where else are people going to look? And for that matter, would they even bother looking someplace else?

And there's plenty of other things clubs can do -- on the cheap -- to help retain their fans and show *their* support of them. The key here is to get the fans to interact not just with the club but with each other.

Overall, the sport is the sell. The sport is what initially brought them out, but sport alone is not enough. Fans need to feel like a bigger part of something. To know that if they go to a sub-par match, in freezing/bad weather, they'll have something else to look forward to. I've been to many matches I didn't give a rip about because I knew so many people that would be there as well, and I knew I'd have a good time regardless.

Some random ideas:

-- Get the players out into the community. Require each player to put in just 3 hours of volunteer time a month. You can let the players decide, or you can have the club give out a list of possible ideas. And from there you can send players into schools or community centers. Get them out locally, in the area they play in. Put a face to go with the name. It shows the club cares about their community and it's bringing them to a personal level. Not just a name and an anonymous face on a poster. You want people to feel like these are their girls out there playing, not just some random person.

-- Don't ignore kids and families, but don't pander to them exclusively. As I mentioned earlier, they're good filler, if you will. They will always be a good way to help fill up seats, but there's no lasting growth. Not to mention if you sell the kiddie factor too much, you're likely to repel potential adult fans.

-- Don't just assume that because someone loves football, they'll automatically love women's football. And don't assume that someone who doesn't follow football won't watch women's football. Women's football is kind of a niche sport. Funny enough, some of the biggest supporters of women's footy are people who watch other niche sports. Here in the states it's not unusual to see people who support men's wrestling come out and watch women's soccer. It's as if these fans understand how hard it is to compete with the big sports -- and that just because you can't draw in 10,000 spectators doesn't make you any less of an athlete. Don't just post flyers around football stadiums. Get out and post them at all sorts of athletic venues and clubs. And who said any partnerships have to be with other football teams?

-- Sex sells, but only to a point. Yes, some teams have some very attractive players. If teams didn't play this up on occasion, I'd be sorely disappointed. But there's a point that it goes from marketing tool to trashy advertising. You can sell the sport and a player's appearance without going overboard. If you look at an advertising poster and the only thing you take away from it is that there's two cute girls on it, then it's failed miserably. (I'm thinking back to the ad campaign Toppserien did a few years ago that featured players in make-up, back to back) You can sell a player's appearance without making it seem ... dirty. Take SFKs calendars from this year. The players were still players, usually posed with balls in various poses, but none were tacky or risque. You could tell it was still about football -- it was just dressed up a little.

-- Play up why or how women's teams are different than their male counterparts. Smaller crowds, strong player dedication, cheaper prices, less theatrics, etc. But in good taste, of course. Bashing men's soccer directly would be counter productive. Its' not about which is the better sport. It's about pointing out what makes this sport enjoyable.

And I'm sure I still have some other ideas in me, but pulling them out is taking a little effort. My brain throws out thoughts and ideas faster than I can organize them.

For the sake of this argument, we'll say that Toppserien teams have virtually zero in their budget for marketing. I mean, real marketing, not just posting up flyers and doing the usual bit. That being the case, most teams can't do demographic specific marketing. There's no point and that money could be spent better elsewhere, precisely because fans are so completely diverse. But once you do draw in these fans, they're more likely to bring their friends and families out and help expand your base for you.

Now, as far as getting the various groups to mesh, well, take a look around this site and the diversity here, or even at BS. Why do we all hang around each other? Now, I may be wrong, but I'm fairly sure Alan isn't a Tori Amos fan, and I'm positive Andreas isn't. Nor do I think any of you read 50-page PhD papers on third-wave feminism. Just having that one interest -- women's soccer -- keeps us all together. And if you do happen to find another fan who likes your band or went to your school, all the better.

Anyway, like I said, I'm sure there's more to add, but I'm running out of time tonight and if I keep on, I'll just end up rambling.

I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts and options. Due to the time, I'm not going to edit this, so apologies for the typos and misspellings, etc. :P
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on November 17, 2009, 10:19:39 PM
That's an excellent post by Bonnie, and much applies to the Premier league too.

(Although I think the connection with men's wrestling and woomen's footy must be something specific to the USA after watching Elizabeth Lambert  :D)

Most games I go to are at Arsenal and Everton, and the fans are pretty friendly at both if you attempt to chat. But, the numbers are too low - especially at Everton, taking into account their position.

Not enough clubs communicate with the fans - it can be hard to find out what's going on.

For instance, depending where you looked, Everton were playing either Doncaster or Chelsea last Sunday.

Arsenal have a dedicated phone line to contact to find out if a game is on after 10.30am, but wasn't responding when we played Keynsham after very heavy rain. We only knew the game was on after seeing the players and ref arrive at the ground. Ok, the lack of response is supposed to indicate a game will be played, but the rain after 10.30 was very heavy.

Regarding having message boards - few teams have decent websites, if they have one at all, and I noticed that fgmag.com  have removed their message board because of the nasty posts that were being placed.

There is clearly a possibility of attracting fans for some bigger games at least - eg Everton v Arsenal title decider getting  2,135 last season, and Arsenal v Chelsea getting 5,700 the season before (ok, this turned out to be a title decider, but that wasn't known until after all tickets had been sold).

One thing that Bonnie didn't really mention when discussing fans communicating with players is that some people have made things difficult for regular fans. I and others I know have been asked to get something signed by various well known players - maybe a photo or a programme. The people asking haven't been in a position to go themselves, so I'd like to oblige, but it can be difficult going to the same player more than a couple of times as they must suspect that their autographs are going to be sold on ebay - and many are sold there. (This can be generally overcome if you get an autograph dedicated though, but that can be awkward if you're getting a shirt signed for yourself - not that I've done that).
I don't want to be regarded as making money at the expense of players when the earn so little, if anything  - and even unsigned programmes are fetching relatively large sums.
I know others that are concerned about this, and was even told the name of a bloke that goes to games in the North getting shirts signed, just for profit, and that was by a fan from the South who now feels embarrassed about asking for things for his personal collection.

The above was just a few varied thoughts, make of them what you will.



Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: leanne on November 18, 2009, 07:21:32 AM
I find at most games I feel welcome this season so far I have seen

Doncaster v Blackburn
Watford v Arsenal in the league cup I let one of the watford subs use the toilet before me at half time !
Leeds v Doncaster
Everton v Sunderland
Arsenal v PAOK
Doncaster v Chelsea
Leeds v Blackburn
Arsenal v Prague#
England Under 19s v Belarus

I feel welcomed at games and know people at leeds, everton, doncaster and arsenal as in supporters and in some instances people who assist so can generally find information out

I'm happy to help other fans as long as in general I get paid up from for programmes etc as a rule I don't like getting loads of autographs as I don't want to look like I take advantage.  I feel very strongly about selling autographs and the fact items are signed has prevented me selling them

As a player sponsor at arsenal I get programmes from each game I keep odd ones and the posters of my 4 favourite players I sell the others and send the club the money and was amazed to find womens programmes sell better than mens so far I've sold one to norway and one to the usa so there is the market out there

The game needs promoting better and I won't start ranting about how I think it can be done better

Bonnie Las's ideas are very good

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on November 18, 2009, 01:24:15 PM
One thing that Bonnie didn't really mention when discussing fans communicating with players is that some people have made things difficult for regular fans. I and others I know have been asked to get something signed by various well known players - maybe a photo or a programme. The people asking haven't been in a position to go themselves, so I'd like to oblige, but it can be difficult going to the same player more than a couple of times as they must suspect that their autographs are going to be sold on ebay - and many are sold there.
I know others that are concerned about this, and was even told the name of a bloke that goes to games in the North getting shirts signed, just for profit, and that was by a fan from the South who now feels embarrassed about asking for things for his personal collection.
Couple of years ago, I went to an away game and on the plane next to me were sitting Emma and Rachel with Anita and Lianne in front of me. I asked them to sign my shirt and the whole team duly obliged.
Later that season I asked a player that was not on that trip to sign the shirt and she refused first time.
I had to explain how I obtained the signatures and nearly had to  beg her, very embarassing :(
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Aphrodites Child on November 18, 2009, 02:21:18 PM
I have heard that Dennis Wise is not one to sign - so this is not something unique to the player you comment about
Title: Leeds Carnegie have head start to join Super League
Post by: shlj on November 18, 2009, 04:47:28 PM
Leeds Carnegie will have a head start on rival bidders for places in football's Super League because of their experience in netball's equivalent, says Chris Welburn, the Leeds Met Carnegie's head of women's football.

The club formerly known as Leeds United, who became part of Leeds Metropolitan University's wide-ranging sports set-up after being discarded by their Elland Road parent club 18 months ago, are among some 15 teams hoping to become one of the eight who will make up the Super League when it kicks off in 2011.

"We have experience of the bid process from the netball league," said Welburn, "and that's been a big help in putting together our bid for this new football league. It will be a similar model to the netball league, which has been an outstanding success, and I believe we'll tick all the boxes when the selection process gets under way."

Welburn runs the Leeds Met team that plays in the British University Colleges League and which is linked closely with the Carnegie Premier League side, eight of whose squad are studying for degrees at the university and play for both teams.

"We have become the hub of women's and girls' football development in the Leeds area," said Welburn. " We have all the facilities that players need within our infrastructure and we are combining education and football with a growing number of girls studying for degrees while playing for one or more of our teams."

Carnegie were denied the chance to take over the Premier League's top spot today, when their match at Watford was postponed due to a waterlogged pitch. Chelsea instead went top after a 5-3 win at Everton while Sunderland, the previous leaders, lost 5-1 at third-placed Arsenal. Millwall Lionesses climbed to fourth with a 2-0 victory away to Bristol.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/nov/15/leeds-carnegie-super-league-netball
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: leanne on November 18, 2009, 04:48:40 PM
I met dennis wise when he was playing for milwall a few years ago e bay seems to be a factor

I feel due to assisting other people so much at times I can't even ask for my own stuff signing to be fair one player tried to sign a photo after the paok game and it was lashing it down and she said she'd sign for me another time and did. I haven't experienced problems I just worry how things may look I spend a lot of money supporting arsenal the prague game cost me £80 in travel money well spent for me I'd have to get a lot of stuff signed to cover anywhere near that not to mention the time

I have been very fortunate what players have given me and don't doubt my support is appreciated

I think the game needs to work on attracting fans now not just when the super league comes into place

I know a lot of people go to cup finals but there needs to be more support at the league and rounds level
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on November 18, 2009, 11:30:48 PM
Ebay is a big factor, but I remember difficulty getting men's autographs in the early 1960s. Some would happily sign, but others wouldn't even when I was the only person asking :(

I remember my dad being embarrassed when I wanted a player I really liked to sign as we followed him down the road from the ground to the railway station (yes, things were different then  :D), but he treated us as if we didn't even exist - and there was only us and him there, apart from local people watching our efforts :(

But, I don't think the ladies are like him - they're just worried about ebay etc.

It's a shame for decent collectors who just want them for their own benefit or for people who can't go to games.

The first time I had a chance to ask Kelly Smith, I asked her to sign 3 programmes, one for me, one for a friend in Europe and one from the USA. She happily signed, even asking where the US bloke was from, as she'd played over there.
More recently, I'm a bit embarrassed to ask her, and only feel happy asking if she will dedicate it for a friend.

People known to sell on ebay for their own gain (as opposed to charity, including their team) should be pointed out to all players if possible imo.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on November 19, 2009, 02:23:49 AM
Never asked for or had anything signed.. in fact 6 yrs of womens football I havent even spoke to 6 players..that includes over the internet or in person.

But I have come accross the problem in mens football (I never ask them for sigs either) Lots of signed stuff appears on ebay for my club accy stanley players and I sussed it out... 2 blokes stood next to team coach after match asking players for sigs.. they where not stanley fans and didnt even go on the game.. they go to football ground collecting signitures on things like photo mounts, white cards ect and add them to a library and all for sale on ebay...  The club asked the players to be aware but the players dont want to upset fans at this level and they have no idea who is who..

I think its a problem everywhere...

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Bonnie Lass on November 19, 2009, 05:13:17 AM
Ah, thanks for the response to my tips. I'd originally wrote those out for Toppserien, but I think it can be applied to any number of women's leagues. It's something that I've followed for some time now, ever since the WUSA debuted in 2001. It just seems as if they continuously make the same mistakes over and over and can't for the life of them find a different approach.

And it's not just the U.S. or Norway -- it's all women's leagues that I've seen. Germany, Sweden, Norway, England, U.S., etc. all seem to have the same kinds of fans, but continue to flounder about with how they should market the game. It's maddening to see no real strides made in the past 8 years.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: leanne on November 19, 2009, 07:18:52 AM
Its a difficult one as how do fans tell clubs or the fa what they'd like, I know I've spoken at length to fans/friends I have from the game about what we'd like from the game.  I get a lot of pleasure from going which is why I am prepared to go to the lengths that I do/

I have supported bradford city mens club all my life and have seen them in the premiership right down to league two and its a different world to womens football

I think a central website with up to date news would be a brilliant idea.

Funding is one problem at the moment I personally could think of ways around that which may assist not fully help




Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on November 19, 2009, 12:04:41 PM
Ebay is a big factor, but I remember difficulty getting men's autographs in the early 1960s. Some would happily sign, but others wouldn't even when I was the only person asking :(

I remember my dad being embarrassed when I wanted a player I really liked to sign as we followed him down the road from the ground to the railway station (yes, things were different then  :D), but he treated us as if we didn't even exist - and there was only us and him there, apart from local people watching our efforts :(

But, I don't think the ladies are like him - they're just worried about ebay etc.

It's a shame for decent collectors who just want them for their own benefit or for people who can't go to games.

The first time I had a chance to ask Kelly Smith, I asked her to sign 3 programmes, one for me, one for a friend in Europe and one from the USA. She happily signed, even asking where the US bloke was from, as she'd played over there.
More recently, I'm a bit embarrassed to ask her, and only feel happy asking if she will dedicate it for a friend.

People known to sell on ebay for their own gain (as opposed to charity, including their team) should be pointed out to all players if possible imo.

I've had a couple of players refuse to sign things, but I don't care really...I ended up with their signitures on a shirt anyway (ironically from e-bay) and I've been trying to work out how I could remove them without damaging the shirt.... I noticed Dowiefan once putting tons of signed things up on e-bay but that was so that she could get money to see this season's games can you criticise selling on e-bay in those cirumstances (I suppose you could say it was for charity)...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on November 19, 2009, 09:27:06 PM
The clubs should sell signed items (on ebay and at grounds) but most teams (Arsenal excepted) can't be bothered.  Alot of the teams aren't bothered if anyone watches. As a photographer, I would be more than willing to supply photographs to my club (as i have done) for them to sell or raffle.

Sporting clubs in USA have ebay accounts to raise money...Accy Stanley, Crewe, PNE have them...but do any women's teams..I doubt it...it'll take too much effort. 

I supply photographs to the 2 non-league teams that I'm involved with...for them to raffle at half-time/ You can't give kids bottles of wine.  I'm sure a young Belles fan would appreciate a signed photo or shirt of Rachel Williams as a raffle prize.

It takes organisation and the clubs are purely concerned with the playing side not the commercial aspects of running a football club.

If and when the Super League goes ahead I expect to hear on this forum ( after a couple of years) that the game isn't the same any more, you can't speak to the players etc. This will be due to the 'old loyal' fans having been pushed aside by the new-fans attracted by the glitz and glamour of a professional league.   Be careful what you wish for.   

Football clubs in this country have milked the public for too long.(Man United??).   I for one, got fed-up of subsidising millionaire footballers and there flash cars...(the Grimsby Town fan was right). 

That's the reason I started watching women's football because it was semi-pro and the players played for the love of the club....not for money.   

The English Super League will be second rate, due to a lack of England players (WPL...) and the plug will be pulled by the FA....due to rising costs.

A pro-league is years away and can't be done properly until the clubs have stadiums of their own to play in.  The FA should be looking into getting clubs grounds to play in...so that they can attract local people to watch.  All the clubs get pitiful gates, but how much marketing is done at local schools?   England played at Blackpool...but did anyone bother to tell the locals that Blackpool Girls FC actually exist? 

At the U19 games recently, the crowd was made up of players from clubs in the lower reaches....the NW Regional League etc. 

The clubs should be attracting real fans..not friends and family of team members.  The FA should market the game as a cheaper alternative to men's football....and a family friendly sport..  It gets done once a year...FA Cup Final.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on November 20, 2009, 12:49:22 AM
Re the above 2 posts:

Dr Gonzo:
I don't think selling things on ebay to help you raise funds to get to games should be regarded as charity.
Giving some of the funds to the (usually) unpaid players is more charitable.

Fans of Kate:
I agree with most of what you've said there - and I expect very little from the FA :(
They'll prefer to support the millionnaires  :'(

Our local women's team didn't get a mention in the local free newspaper until Ron sent a photo and a report, and I added a bit - and they messed it up, I believe (I didn't get a copy :()


Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: leanne on November 20, 2009, 07:06:43 AM
I think some problems are not enough people to help with things I know I went to doncaster belles a few weeks ago and they were asking for match day volunteers in the programme

I must confess I wouldn't want to commit to help at every game the team I support play miles away so its not an option I see leeds carneige ladies when I can and have helped the odd time doing the tea bar and managing to not damage anyone

E bay accounts would be a good idea I was forunate arsenals numbers 4 and 7 gave me shirts last season I'd have willingly paid for them for either the club or player to get the money from.  I have signed items a club would be welcome to which I no longer want.

The main appeal of a summer league to me although how much is applies in britain now with the weather is games less likely to be called off
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on November 20, 2009, 11:14:02 AM
Re the above 2 posts:

Dr Gonzo:
I don't think selling things on ebay to help you raise funds to get to games should be regarded as charity.
Giving some of the funds to the (usually) unpaid players is more charitable.

Well they are sort of I mean its a slightly better reason than just keeping the money...when some of the players themselves put shirts up on e-bay after the World Cup they didn't get much money for them....if they can't make much out of it, it seems strange that they think the rest of us will do better.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on November 21, 2009, 12:28:12 AM
Re the above 2 posts:

Dr Gonzo:
I don't think selling things on ebay to help you raise funds to get to games should be regarded as charity.
Giving some of the funds to the (usually) unpaid players is more charitable.

Well they are sort of I mean its a slightly better reason than just keeping the money...when some of the players themselves put shirts up on e-bay after the World Cup they didn't get much money for them....if they can't make much out of it, it seems strange that they think the rest of us will do better.

It's surprising how great the differences are in what people are willing to pay on ebay - I don't use it myself, but I know that silly amounts have been paid at times for items - eg unsigned programmes.

As far as players putting shirts up - were they guaranteed to actually be from the players?
I know someone who bought a non match-worn but signed team shirt, and it was a fraud - the signatures were wrong :(

Many people would give an arm and a leg for a match-worn shirt, but doubt they'd sell them - they'd mean too much to them!
But, if circumstances meant they'd need to sell, how would they prove how they got one?
A player giving one to a fan is not likely to give it with a signed certificate stating its authenticity, knowing the fan really wanted it to treasure.

Maybe players should have to provide DNA  :D

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: leanne on November 21, 2009, 08:19:42 AM
I remember on myspace rachel unitt advertising on her own profile or via a message unsure which about selling some items on e bay

I have seen some player worn shirts with the date sewn onto the front on e bay so I would think they are official and authentic

To me some of my items are priceless I have a shirt somewhere signed by various england mens players including joe cole, john terry, aaron lennon and more and a womens one the womens means more to me as I follow the england ladies a lot closer.
Title: Re: Leeds Carnegie have head start to join Super League
Post by: shlj on November 21, 2009, 11:08:30 AM
The club formerly known as Leeds United, who became part of Leeds Metropolitan University's wide-ranging sports set-up after being discarded by their Elland Road parent club 18 months ago, are among some 15 teams hoping to become one of the eight who will make up the Super League when it kicks off in 2011.
15 teams have applied  :o I mean, I would like to know who can  guarantee 300 spectators at every game over the last couple of seasons as requested ? There are really a lot of criteria involved in this that are supposed to be minimal in term of general organisation or even ground that I believe are not fulfilled at the moment.
Also the salary cap not being given is really unfair. How can a team present a budget to the FA if they don't know what the limit is? Let's say a team  have a big budget because they have to pay their internationals to prevent them from leaving to the WPS. The FA would not select that team but one with a smaller budget ie less paid player  ??? I call this moving the goalpost at will basically.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on November 21, 2009, 12:19:40 PM
I remember on myspace rachel unitt advertising on her own profile or via a message unsure which about selling some items on e bay

I have seen some player worn shirts with the date sewn onto the front on e bay so I would think they are official and authentic

To me some of my items are priceless I have a shirt somewhere signed by various england mens players including joe cole, john terry, aaron lennon and more and a womens one the womens means more to me as I follow the england ladies a lot closer.


I remember the spam Unitt used to sent out for some terrible clothes, company Goorin or something befroe her account got deleated (Sue Smith did the same but she seemed to get away with it, ha)  I've only got a couple of shirts sadly don't have one with the Scotland squad but I've got a lot of signed programmes though and I don't think I'd sell any (might burn a few though, ha)...  I could see me putting things up for sale and not getting much for them so it would be better just to keep them,,,
Title: Re: Leeds Carnegie have head start to join Super League
Post by: Dr Gonzo on November 21, 2009, 12:29:43 PM
The club formerly known as Leeds United, who became part of Leeds Metropolitan University's wide-ranging sports set-up after being discarded by their Elland Road parent club 18 months ago, are among some 15 teams hoping to become one of the eight who will make up the Super League when it kicks off in 2011.
15 teams have applied  :o I mean, I would like to know who can  guarantee 300 spectators at every game over the last couple of seasons as requested ? There are really a lot of criteria involved in this that are supposed to be minimal in term of general organisation or even ground that I believe are not fulfilled at the moment.
Also the salary cap not being given is really unfair. How can a team present a budget to the FA if they don't know what the limit is? Let's say a team  have a big budget because they have to pay their internationals to prevent them from leaving to the WPS. The FA would not select that team but one with a smaller budget ie less paid player  ??? I call this moving the goalpost at will basically.

15! gee thats a lot....I think in certain games teams might get 300 people to go but some of the Arsenal Everton games didn't get that many people so even the very top teams can't cut it with the criteria...From what I can tell Everton have been getting some pretty poor turn outs....The City Celtic game had about 400 people at it so maybe Celtic should apply Rangers as well, just for a laugh...
Title: Re: Leeds Carnegie have head start to join Super League
Post by: twmcat on November 22, 2009, 12:34:24 AM
The club formerly known as Leeds United, who became part of Leeds Metropolitan University's wide-ranging sports set-up after being discarded by their Elland Road parent club 18 months ago, are among some 15 teams hoping to become one of the eight who will make up the Super League when it kicks off in 2011.
15 teams have applied  :o I mean, I would like to know who can  guarantee 300 spectators at every game over the last couple of seasons as requested ? There are really a lot of criteria involved in this that are supposed to be minimal in term of general organisation or even ground that I believe are not fulfilled at the moment.
Also the salary cap not being given is really unfair. How can a team present a budget to the FA if they don't know what the limit is? Let's say a team  have a big budget because they have to pay their internationals to prevent them from leaving to the WPS. The FA would not select that team but one with a smaller budget ie less paid player  ??? I call this moving the goalpost at will basically.

15! gee thats a lot....I think in certain games teams might get 300 people to go but some of the Arsenal Everton games didn't get that many people so even the very top teams can't cut it with the criteria...From what I can tell Everton have been getting some pretty poor turn outs....The City Celtic game had about 400 people at it so maybe Celtic should apply Rangers as well, just for a laugh...

Is there anything to stop Scottish teams applying as things stand?
Just a query  :-\


Btw - I have some signed progs, but they will stay with me ;)
Title: Re: Leeds Carnegie have head start to join Super League
Post by: shlj on November 22, 2009, 12:48:38 AM
Is there anything to stop Scottish teams applying as things stand?
Just a query  :-\
Yes, team applying have to be registered with the FA.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Bonnie Lass on November 22, 2009, 03:53:17 AM
Pretty much every women's match-worn shirt I've seen on eBay or elsewhere *has* been legit. How do I know? Custom one-match embroidery on the front in some cases, as mentioned above, as well as authentic patches from the bigger tournies. Patches that aren't available to the public, unlike the men's shirts.

The thing is, not many people would bother selling bootleg/knockoff women's shirts. Too much time and not enough profit. That's not to say a lone ass somewhere wouldn't try it, but there would be a fair amount of work involved. Not like you can go to a Thai factory and order 100 sets of fake Kelly Smith lettering -- unlike Torres or Ronaldo, etc.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: leanne on November 22, 2009, 08:46:13 AM
300 is a lot to have at a game league wise the biggest attendance I've seen was the title decider last season and it seemed like it was a one off for a lot of people

They should resurrect dick kears ladies they used to pull in huge crouds  :D

I've some signed items I'd never part with and others I'd part with in exchange for an item I did want or a favour  ;)

When I get shirts printed I use either JJB or a shirt printing place in leeds and the lettering is different to on players shirts so I guess theres may be softer lettering
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on November 22, 2009, 07:31:07 PM
300 is a lot to have at a game league wise the biggest attendance I've seen was the title decider last season and it seemed like it was a one off for a lot of people

They should resurrect dick kears ladies they used to pull in huge crouds  :D

I've some signed items I'd never part with and others I'd part with in exchange for an item I did want or a favour  ;)

When I get shirts printed I use either JJB or a shirt printing place in leeds and the lettering is different to on players shirts so I guess theres may be softer lettering

I think the name would get to many laughs...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: leanne on November 22, 2009, 11:47:29 PM
It would I may have mis spelt kears sp apologies for that they played at bradford city !!
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on November 23, 2009, 02:54:19 PM
the proposals for the Super League throw the costs out of all proportion - it's going to cost of upto £300,000  a season to run. 
I made a rough estimate of the cost of paying today's Arsenal squad wages with the top 4 earners getting 25k all the internationals 16k and the youth international 10 k per season ( I wouldn't say those are excessive rate )

It goes like this :
EB, JL, CG, KL 25k
HL, NF, NR, JB, GD, JF, YT 16k
LB, AP, LC, RS, GF 10k
4 players not in salary cap as they have central contract FW RY CY KC 16k

Total 262 k without the 4 central contract... If you add the administration part of the club and sporting staff. I bet it goes about 400k to run the club for a season.  :o
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on November 25, 2009, 08:01:30 PM
Another important point the central contracts do not count in the salary cap budget !!!!
ie if you have like 8  central contracted players, you can spread all your money pot over 12 players instead of 20. It makes a big difference because your top players can earn more and your lesser paid players end up paid more as well. I foresee some headhunting for all the central contracted players.

By the way, it is a kind of disguised discrimination by the nationality, which is unfair and also the FA being judge and party does create a bit of a problem as they are awarding the contracts and the licenses.
Let's say the FA removes the central contract from 2 players over 30 because they are getting old and not good enough and give them to two 20 year olds deserving and promising youngsters, this is simply a 32k competitive advantage given to the team with the 2 youngsters on the budget ???
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on November 25, 2009, 09:52:40 PM
The FA are excepting the top 4 players at each club to be England Internationals.  The England team are to be spread out amongest the 8 clubs.  If Blackburn were to get a franchise licence then they will be expected to take 4 England players.  There are too many England players at Everton, so 4 will be expected to move to other clubs, so they can receive the 'top player' payment.  These are the only players that the clubs are expected to pay. The document doesn't say anything about paying Managers, Staff or other players.  That is why the clubs are expected to put in £75,000 a season.

The Super League is for the benefit of the England National Team only.  Four Blackburn players would be expected to make way for 4 England Internationals.  I don't think the clubs will have a say in who get the 'Top player' payment.  I would give this payment to the 4 longest serving players, as they don't have any internationals at the moment.

I have heard that one club is going to get all the financial resources that they need to meet the Super League requirements.  They are also going to get the use of an all-seater stadium.  But, even they concede that it would be unlikely that Manager and staff would get paid.

They did say that it is unlikely that contracts would be given to non-internationals and that players would be paid on a match-per-match basis.  I think the central contract idea would be cancelled.  In all fairness the above proposals would be the ideal situation for the players, but how many of the 15 clubs that have applied would pay around £400,000 a seasion, with no guarntee of any return or profitability.  It would be a disaster for the game if Manchester United were to be given a franchise,when they walked away from the game a few years ago.  The FA are more likely to want Manchester United in the Super League, as it would be easier to sell to a broadcaster with United, Chelsea and Arsenal in it.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on November 26, 2009, 11:18:05 AM
The FA are excepting the top 4 players at each club to be England Internationals.  The England team are to be spread out amongest the 8 clubs.  If Blackburn were to get a franchise licence then they will be expected to take 4 England players. .

This is the main bit that makes a mockery of the whole system.. You cant force clubs to sign certain players and more important you cant force players to play for clubs they dont want to.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Aphrodites Child on November 26, 2009, 12:11:47 PM
USA could tempt more England players in the interim

given recent events with the 2018 World Cup, would anyone be too surprised if 2011 Super League had rug pulled from under its feet like 2010 version did
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on November 26, 2009, 12:38:56 PM
I don't know it looks like more loads of teams have applied so would the FA really pull out again ?
And potentially some players who do not have a central contract could go to the USA but that would not be more than 5 really. Not a big exodus
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on November 26, 2009, 04:10:52 PM
The FA are excepting the top 4 players at each club to be England Internationals.  The England team are to be spread out amongest the 8 clubs.  If Blackburn were to get a franchise licence then they will be expected to take 4 England players. .

This is the main bit that makes a mockery of the whole system.. You cant force clubs to sign certain players and more important you cant force players to play for clubs they dont want to.

Well if they are wagging money in front of their noses...they may feel duty bound most players seem to want to play in the new league and will move if their present team isn't in it...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on November 26, 2009, 11:59:17 PM
The FA are excepting the top 4 players at each club to be England Internationals.  The England team are to be spread out amongest the 8 clubs.  If Blackburn were to get a franchise licence then they will be expected to take 4 England players. .

This is the main bit that makes a mockery of the whole system.. You cant force clubs to sign certain players and more important you cant force players to play for clubs they dont want to.

Well if they are wagging money in front of their noses...they may feel duty bound most players seem to want to play in the new league and will move if their present team isn't in it...

Interesting that they expect top 4 in each team to be England internationals, and I understand that some players will be happy to change clubs.
But, currently Arsenal could put out a good full team with only one English player:
Emma; Yvonne, Ciara, Jennifer, Niamh; Jayne, Kim, Natalie; Julie, Helen.  Plus one other (I can only find English on the books apart from the above). All are international players  :o
What if Marta wanted to join?
Unlikely - but add her onto the 10 and you'd have a good team without an English player.

Would they not be allowed to play in the top league with them?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on November 27, 2009, 06:00:24 PM
What’s the future hold for women’s football?

England team can only get better with launch of Super League

By Ian Clarkson  November 26, 2009

With England ladies reaching the final of the Euro 2009 tournament and the advent of a full time professional league in 2011 women’s football is on a roll.

The fastest growing female participation sport in the country has grown gradually with Hope Powell’s national team improving every season since the European Championships were held here in 2005.

With top players currently playing in the USA it was felt that a full time Super League – to be launched in the summer of 2011 – is the way to finally start a full-time professional game in England. Eight teams will have to bid to be involved and with the FA wanting each club to pay its top four players an annual salary between £20-30,000 then it is a seismic shift from the current model.

But what impact will this have on women’s football lower down the ladder at grass roots level? Givemefootball’s Ian Clarkson spoke to Esther Slater who is player-assistant manager of Stratford Town of the West Midlands League Premier Division. This might be only three steps below the current Women’s Premier League but, as Clarkson discovered, it is light years away as Slater offered some candid opinions...
 

HOW IMPORTANT IS THE WOMEN'S SUPER LEAGUE FOR THE PROFILE OF WOMEN'S FOOTBALL?

Personally I don’t think the super league will make much difference to the profile of women’s football. The pyramid system that is already in place works well enough and I can’t see how changing the structure is going to help raise the profile. I think maybe in the beginning it may create a bit of interest, but I can’t see it lasting.

WILL IT HAVE AN AFFECT ON GRASS ROOTS CLUBS LIKE YOURSELVES?

Well it’s supposedly open for any club to apply for. However with the money they are talking about (paying top four players an annual salary of £20-30k and matching the £70k the FA are going to give each club per year for the first two years) I cant see how they will get any teams other than those who are fully affiliated with large men’s clubs raising the funds. Therefore the gap between top and bottom will be bigger than ever.

WILL CLUBS LIKE STRATFORD AIM FOR THE SUPER LEAGUE OR IS THAT A BRIDGE TOO FAR?

No way. We have to pay to play so there is no way we could match the funding the FA are asking...unless I win the lottery of course!

CAN ENGLAND STOP THE EXODUS OF TALENT TO THE STATES WITH THIS INITIATIVE?

I guess it’s worth a try but I suppose it all depends on the funding. I don’t know too much about the league in the States but I would imagine there is far more money in the game over there than there is here.

CAN ENGLAND SUSTAIN A FULL-TIME LEAGUE?

Again I think it depends on the funding. If they are planning on paying top four players £20-30k a year, what are they going to pay all the other players? If they can afford to pay players a decent annual salary then I see no reason why a full time league can’t operate. However, for example, I know that the expenses and wages Lindsay Johnson currently gets paid from Everton and England is nowhere near enough to live off. Even though she had to give up her teaching job due to all the time she had to have off for England.

YOU PLAYED WITH ENGLAND STAR LINDSAY JOHNSON FOR LIVERPOOL BACK IN YOUR HEY DAY - IS THE STANDARD NOW BETTER THAN EVER AT THE TOP LEVEL?

Yes definitely. The game has moved on so much since then and the standard has improved no end. There are so many more opportunities for young girls now with centres of excellence. When I started playing they were unheard of and I don’t think there was a team closer than about 40 miles from me. Now there about ten in a ten mile radius!

WILL ENGLAND WIN A MAJOR TOURNAMENT IN THE NEXT DECADE?

As long as Germany and the US are around though I think we will struggle to win anything. However, maybe with the launch of the new Super League things will continue to improve and they can really begin to challenge.

WILL ATTENDANCES START TO RIVAL THE MEN'S GAME OR IS THAT JUST A DREAM?

Oh no, that it just a dream. The big games like the FA cup final will continue to attract decent attendances but I can’t see it ever rivalling the men’s game.

http://www.givemefootball.com/womens-football/whats-the-future-hold-for-womens-football--(1)?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Aphrodites Child on November 27, 2009, 06:22:39 PM
in theory you could have an all non-English side - if you had the players like Arsenal almost do

would the rules of the super league demand that the 4 top english stars always play - assuming available to play? - what if they all got injured at the same time?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on November 27, 2009, 11:21:05 PM
in theory you could have an all non-English side - if you had the players like Arsenal almost do

would the rules of the super league demand that the 4 top english stars always play - assuming available to play? - what if they all got injured at the same time?
That's the point I was trying to make really - would Arsenal, say, have to field 4 top English players if available?
What if they decided to play all non-English players for a game?

It's starting to sound like what they want for the men's Prem - so many home-grown players.

All very confusing  :-\
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on November 27, 2009, 11:33:29 PM
They wouldn't be able to do anything on nationality, it is illegal with regards to European laws.
It would be unfair to be forced to play FW for example instead of CG simply because one is english and the other irish...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on November 28, 2009, 10:54:37 PM
They wouldn't be able to do anything on nationality, it is illegal with regards to European laws.
It would be unfair to be forced to play FW for example instead of CG simply because one is english and the other irish...

Uefa seem to think they can override EU laws  :'(
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on November 28, 2009, 11:31:11 PM
Uefa seem to think they can override EU laws  :'(
They know they can't, last time they tried the Bosman ruling came in...
And if they really try to mess up some one will take the clubs to court (for restraint of trade for example )one day and the footballers will become under the same contract rule as any worker ie one month notice ...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: treble99 on November 30, 2009, 01:41:54 AM
"Fans of Kate; It would be a disaster for the game if Manchester United were to be given a franchise,when they walked away from the game a few years ago.  The FA are more likely to want Manchester United in the Super League, as it would be easier to sell to a broadcaster with United, Chelsea and Arsenal in it.
[/quote]

Your hilarious !!! Why even bring Manchester United into the equasion?? Is it fear or jealousy?? You obviously haven't read all these threads otherwise you'd have seen what John has wrote reference Man United, but I'll put my view on it for you, to rest your anti-united feeling..

Manchester United have NO intention whatsoever of entering a team, they are a BUSINESS and there is no return in the womens game! They have only just started an U18's girls team, do you think they would endure the humilation of them getting beat week in week out by the likes of Arsenal, Everton and the other superb experienced teams, should they enter the superleague???
At a loss of £400k a season?? get real !!!
If the FA would love for them to be onboard so much...why was there never any mention or permission given for the U18's to be allowed into the womens premier reserve league, even though they haven't got a womens side?? Surely the FA could bend the rules to "suit" if thats what your implying???

If you take notice of the grass roots girls game, you'll see despite the "power" Man United may weld to the "anything but United" haters ! The U18's are on the bottom rung of the womens pyramid and are fully aware they are 5years or more playing "catch up" behind the likes of the teams I've just mentioned. So stop worrying, their along way off from competing at that level and you should have wrote "it'd be a DISGRACE not disaster, seeing that they walked away from the womens game a few years ago!" I'd have agreed with you despite the fact, I have a valued interest in their progression!!

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on November 30, 2009, 03:16:02 PM
I do think the FA would be happy to have Man United on board as it would be an easier sell to broadcasters. It is obvious the Superleague clubs need financial backing to survive as budget seem to be sky high compared to what clubs are working with now. Still 400 k is about 3 weeks wage of a old prostitute user  ;D  so it is not really a lot in term of budget for them. I would agree if there is no interesting integration in the global United  business plan, they would not try to enter the Superleague. To be honest, I am sure United could start from scratch and build a 20 players squad with girls who are United supporters.

Something that suprises me though is having a U18 team with girls is a good start but, those kids will be 19 soon and therefore unable to play and will need senior football.  Would they have to move to a club down the road like Curzon Ashton ?

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on December 01, 2009, 01:06:43 PM
The following article talks about the proposed new league

England have Hope on their side after many false new dawns
By Tom Dart

Could an England victory over Germany in the women’s European Championship final in Helsinki tonight be a breakthrough moment for the female game in this country? You can understand why there is caution beneath the optimism. In women’s football, new dawns do not always lead to bright skies.

On April Fool’s Day this year, the FA announced that budget cuts caused by the economic downturn had caused it to defer the start of a summer women’s Super League by a year, to 2011. The news caused dismay within the women’s game. They have grown tired of waiting. When Adam Crozier became FA chief executive in 2000, he presented a wide-ranging blueprint that included a professional women’s league. But Crozier resigned in 2002 and his grand schemes gathered dust.

However, women’s football is a priority for Ian Watmore, the present chief executive, and he talked this week about building on the momentum generated by England’s progression to the final and making a Super League happen at last.

“It’s a great opportunity to raise the profile,” Marieanne Spacey, the former England striker, said. “Football fans will watch any football, 12 months of the year. You could take a family of four for about £20 and see international players in a family-orientated atmosphere. It might bring in a new generation of supporters.”

Adult entry to watch Arsenal Ladies, Premier League champions for the past six seasons, is £3 — but they typically attract only 300-400 fans. “The crowds aren’t great,” Vic Akers, who stepped down in the summer after 22 years as Arsenal manager, said. “It needs to change, hopefully with a new league it will.”

The most iconic moment in women’s football is Brandi Chastain taking off her shirt to celebrate scoring the winning penalty for the United States in the 1999 World Cup in front of 90,000 fans in Pasadena, California. The surge of enthusiasm prompted the formation of a professional league, but it sustained huge losses and shut in 2003 after only three seasons.

Six years on, the US is trying again: the Women’s Professional Soccer league has just finished its first campaign. The league’s average attendance was 4,493 and televised matches attracted only about 50,000 viewers on average.

Even with an average player salary as low as $32,000 (about £19,300), none of the seven teams made a profit. Six of the England squad play there. “We need to try and limit the numbers who are leaving,” Akers said. Hope Powell’s England players are on central contracts worth £16,000 annually. “We need major sponsors, but sponsorship is hard to come by,” he added.

Akers sees Euro 2005, hosted by England, as a missed opportunity. “Sadly it didn’t sustain the interest,” he said. England’s group games were watched by an average of 23,160 people in the stadiums and 2.23 million on television, but Powell’s side did not reach the knockout phase. Viewing figures were lower for the 2007 World Cup in China and tonight’s final is the only match of the tournament screened live by the BBC.

Still, since 1993, the number of players in England has increased from 10,400 to more than 150,000. Could a revamped women’s league one day attract similar crowds and interest to, say, Coca-Cola League Two? “That probably won’t happen in the next decade but there are huge numbers playing at the grassroots level now,” Akers said. “Standards have gone through the roof.”

Spacey said: “The game’s moved on immensely compared to back in the late Eighties and early Nineties, when my mum took my England kit home to wash it after games.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/international/article6828177.ece
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on December 01, 2009, 01:08:20 PM
OOH Lincoln declare intention to join women's Super League in 2011


Tony Leighton
guardian.co.uk, Monday 30 November 2009 14.48 GMT

The Northern Division club OOH Lincoln have emerged as surprise but serious contenders for a place in the new Super League, which is set to start in 2011. The club chairman, Geoff Adams, initially the most vocal of sceptics of the Football Association's vision of an eight-team elite league to be played during the summer, has now embraced the concept to the extent that Lincoln (the acronym OOH is from the club sponsor Ray Trew's "Out Of Home" company) will be making a "massive" bid to become founder members.

"The whole idea was anathema to me originally," admitted Adams, "but I've spoken to a lot of people since it was first mooted and I now believe that we should be involved. In women's football terms we shall have an almost unlimited budget, and we'll be putting in a massive bid."

Lincoln's efforts are being co-ordinated by the sports marketing consultant Fiona Green, who in the past has worked in the men's game on a consultancy basis for Manchester United, Real Madrid and Milan. "The bid is being based on solid business principles," said Green, "and with the club's main sponsor making a significant commitment for the next 10 years we have excellent backing and the finances in place to compete strongly with much higher-profile names than Lincoln for a place in the league."

The Football League club Lincoln City, whose Sincil Bank stadium would become the women's home ground if they are accepted into the Super League, are also backing the bid. The chairman, Steff Wright, said: "It's a great opportunity for them. We are very supportive of their proposals and we'll do what we can to help."

If successful in their bid then Lincoln would be playing top-level football for the first time in the club's history. Their Northern Division game at Manchester City was postponed at the weekend, when in the top flight Sunderland regained the leadership with a 2-0 victory over Chelsea. Blues dropped to second place while Doncaster climbed to third with a 3-1 win against Birmingham in the only other game played.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/nov/30/lincoln-women-football-super-league?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on December 01, 2009, 06:22:39 PM
"The whole idea was anathema to me originally," admitted Adams, "but I've spoken to a lot of people since it was first mooted and I now believe that we should be involved. In women's football terms we shall have an almost unlimited budget, and we'll be putting in a massive bid."

 :D Wow! I wonder if Geoff said that through gritted teeth!
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: treble99 on December 01, 2009, 10:43:53 PM
I do think the FA would be happy to have Man United on board as it would be an easier sell to broadcasters. It is obvious the Superleague clubs need financial backing to survive as budget seem to be sky high compared to what clubs are working with now. Still 400 k is about 3 weeks wage of a old prostitute user  ;D  so it is not really a lot in term of budget for them. I would agree if there is no interesting integration in the global United  business plan, they would not try to enter the Superleague. To be honest, I am sure United could start from scratch and build a 20 players squad with girls who are United supporters.

Something that suprises me though is having a U18 team with girls is a good start but, those kids will be 19 soon and therefore unable to play and will need senior football.  Would they have to move to a club down the road like Curzon Ashton ?



The coaching staff are doing their very best to give the Centre of Excellence girls a pyramid into open age football, fully recognising that maybe only a few of the present girls would be able to perform at that level and are looking for suitable teams to feed their girls into, once they assertain 19 but hopefully by then Man United will have their own womens team as an option. Curzon??? The U18's smashed them 6-0 with 4 of Curzon's 1st team playing, so it's obvious United are serious?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on December 03, 2009, 11:13:10 AM
Well a good League to market with 7 or 8 England girls over there in the WPS.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Aphrodites Child on December 03, 2009, 11:17:52 AM
with reference to Lincoln's massive bid - perhaps they will be signing all the players who have gone to USA

the more players who go the harder the sell to tv and sponsors becomes and in turn this raises genuine concerns about 2011 going ahead
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on December 04, 2009, 02:13:57 PM
"The whole idea was anathema to me originally," admitted Adams, "but I've spoken to a lot of people since it was first mooted and I now believe that we should be involved. In women's football terms we shall have an almost unlimited budget, and we'll be putting in a massive bid."

 :D Wow! I wonder if Geoff said that through gritted teeth!

 :D No I'm fine with it now - promotion and relegation following a 2 year bedding in period, with promotion chasing clubs simply having to meet the franchise criteria to go up in 2013 - no draft system! Doors not being closed to clubs outside the Super League for the foreseeable future, The sport being played in summer which I've always been in favour of, and the FA investing heavilly. Hopefully good media coverage. There's a few bits and peices in there which I think can be improved, but don't let anyone say I'm not prepared to compromise. This is no religious conversion, the package is now good! We'll give it our best shot just like all the other clubs.

For those in the BBC Look North area I think we're on Telly tonight, Simon Clarke said they were doing a nice big piece on us - we've just done a big press conference. BBC Radio Lincs has done their bit for us, LincsFM were there interviewing today, and I believe the Lincolnshire Echo are publishing a double page spread tomorrow. We were inthe Guardian as you can see last Monday. The interest being shown in us is great - we've got very good backing from our sponsor - ultimately if our bid is better that those of our competitors I would hope that we will be selected - we shall see... :)

Here's our take on it all... http://ladyimps.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=407:ooh-lincoln-ladies-fc-super-league-bid&catid=14&Itemid=35
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on December 04, 2009, 04:15:11 PM
OK, it's good to see that things are looking brighter. Best of luck with your bid Geoff. It's nice to see the city getting behind the team.  :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on December 04, 2009, 09:58:24 PM
...can a team not already in the topflight 'buy' themselves into the so-called 'elite' league?, is that how it works

Celtic and Rangers can't do that can they?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on December 04, 2009, 10:50:03 PM
yes anyone registered with the FA can apply. Even a side starting from scratch and buying all good players could in theory apply
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on December 05, 2009, 04:33:55 PM
what about a side  with all not so good players?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: shlj on December 05, 2009, 04:47:18 PM
what about a side  with all not so good players?
If they have enough money and a good business plan, they can definitely apply.
We don't really know how the FA will choose really, if it is on money only as it seems very much a business rather than a football product.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: treble99 on December 06, 2009, 02:02:28 AM
Wouldn't it be more advantageous for the womens game if the applicants were a good side and had a good business plan?
If this takes off, the eyes of the doubters will be watching closely, I for one hope this succeeds but if broadcast I personally dont want to turn on and see "the social teams" playing but rather the more professional teams both in ability and organisation, which will at least shut some of the " told you womens football was crap" brigade up...surely the idea is progression NOT regression?!?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on December 07, 2009, 11:03:03 PM
I'd like to know how much, if anything, the FA are going to put into this.

They seem to be more interested in the 2014 England WC bid than anything else, and a reporter mentioned regularly here is not used by the FA now, just the Guardian and BBC (and he told us that himself).

If they're not willing to use him, how seriously do they take the women's game?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on December 08, 2009, 09:45:09 AM
Well, i am not a lover of summer football, dont think the idea of a small 'elite' Premier League is a good one, the burgers will taste the same at Arsenal - and for that reason...I am out. ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on December 08, 2009, 05:43:50 PM
Some great news with the announcement today of a TV deal covering the new women's super league.

FA agree Cup deal with ESPN
Tuesday, 08 December, 2009

The FA agrees a four-year deal with ESPN

The FA has on Tuesday agreed a four-year deal with broadcaster ESPN for rights to The FA Cup, the forthcoming Women’s Super League and England Under-21s.

‪The deal with the broadcaster will begin in the summer of 2010, running through until the end of the 2013-14 season, and will sit alongside the existing contract for The FA Cup and England Senior games held by ITV until 2012.

ESPN will show live, exclusive coverage of up to 25 FA Cup matches per season, including one exclusive Semi-Final match and a simulcast of The FA Cup Final (on both ESPN and ITV).

This season’s FA Cup (2009-10) will continue to be shown by The FA’s current broadcast partner ITV, who will show three live games from the Third to Fifth Round – one additional game – and all games from the Quarter-Final stage onwards.

All matches broadcast by ESPN and ITV will be available in high definition.

From 2010-11, ESPN will televise two matches in The FA Cup First and Second Rounds (plus up to two replays per round), three matches from the Third to Fifth Rounds (plus up to one replay), two Quarter-Finals (plus up to one replay) and one Semi-Final for each of the next four seasons.

ITV will continue to broadcast one match in the First and Second Round, two matches from the Third to Fifth Rounds, two Quarter-Finals and one Semi-Final.

Meanwhile, FATV will continue to broadcast one or two games per round up to the Fifth Round via TheFA.com and will continue to host games online in the future as the project expands.

Along with rights to The FA Cup, ESPN will also show all of the England Under-21s home fixtures.‪ Further, following the launch of the Women’s Super League in 2011, ESPN will have exclusive media rights for the new division.

FA CEO Ian Watmore said: “We are extremely pleased to have added ESPN to our list of broadcast partners. As a global broadcaster, who have already demonstrated a strong presence in the UK, ESPN will give our football great visibility and we look forward to an excellent partnership with them.

"Whilst it’s a very different market to two years ago, we have nevertheless taken our time and as a result have received some strong, credible bids.”

Jeroen Oerlemans, Vice President & Channel Manager TV, ESPN Europe, Middle East & Africa, said: “The FA Cup is one of the great UK sports properties and will add to an already strong line-up of top-quality football on ESPN. We look forward to bringing these matches to our fans in brilliant HD. We are delighted to have been awarded these exclusive domestic rights, which are another significant step in growing our presence in the UK.”

Niall Sloane, ITV Controller of Sport, said: "We're delighted to have extended our partnership with The FA to secure extra games from this season's competition for our viewers - in what promises to be a fantastic year of free-to-air football on ITV. We also look forward to working closely with new broadcast partners, ESPN."

Alongside their coverage of The FA Cup, ITV will continue to broadcast all England home qualifying matches through until the end of the 2011-12 season as well as home and away friendly internationals (home friendlies were previously held by Setanta). Sky Sports has the rights to broadcast The FA Community Shield and The FA Women’s Cup Final until 2012.

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/NewsAndFeatures/2009/ESPN_081209.aspx
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on December 08, 2009, 06:31:01 PM
Some great news with the announcement today of a TV deal covering the new women's super league.

That is fantastic news for the super league. It would seem that the collective bargaining power of the FA has helped the women's game on this occasion. Not sure the women's game could have done that independently. IMHO

Unfortunately, and only on a personal note, I don't have access to ESPN. I never bothered subscribing to it following Setanta's demise.  ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on December 08, 2009, 06:43:17 PM
Some great news with the announcement today of a TV deal covering the new women's super league.

That is fantastic news for the super league. It would seem that the collective bargaining power of the FA has helped the women's game on this occasion. Not sure the women's game could have done that independently. IMHO

Unfortunately, and only on a personal note, I don't have access to ESPN. I never bothered subscribing to it following Setanta's demise.  ;)

I think women's football deals have always been included as part of a wider package.

At least the TV company is one of the big ones.  Most people who follow men's football will now have ESPN.   It is available through digital tv providers such as Sky, Virgin Media, Tiscali, BT Vision and Top Up TV.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on December 08, 2009, 06:56:25 PM
I wonder if the deal includes the England women's internationals. It doesn't seem to mention them in the article.

I might get ESPN in the future. This new deal adds to its appeal for me, so I'll keep an eye on the content available.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Roberts on December 08, 2009, 08:13:15 PM
I'll definitely be getting espn if it shows womens football, yeah :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on December 09, 2009, 11:35:00 AM
....that will certainly bring in the crowds to matches, eh....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on December 09, 2009, 11:57:44 AM
....that will certainly bring in the crowds to matches, eh....

It certainly will as it will reach its target market of fans following men's football who have daughters.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on December 09, 2009, 12:16:11 PM
..they will be going to watch their daughters now, not when the games are on tv...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on December 09, 2009, 01:29:36 PM
....that will certainly bring in the crowds to matches, eh....
It certainly will as it will reach its target market of fans following men's football who have daughters.
..they will be going to watch their daughters now, not when the games are on tv...

Why would they be doing that? These are the men with their daughters who don't watch or play the sport. The FA will try and attract these fans to watch and go to the matches.  I go to some Arsenal home and away matches and you see so many female fans who are not getting the message at the moment.

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on December 09, 2009, 01:46:17 PM
why go to a live game when you can be watching it on tv - thats what I will be doing....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on December 09, 2009, 01:58:42 PM
why go to a live game when you can be watching it on tv - thats what I will be doing....

You are missing the point as these male fans and their kids would never have seen any female match before.  This deal will give weekly exposure to the games.  Over time the hope would be for some of these fans to want to attend some of these live matches.

You are in the minority of fans.  Research has shown that fans prefer to go and watch matches in the flesh.

Manchester United, Liverpool, Real Madrid, Barcelona and Arsenal regularly have games shown on TV but fans still flock to see the games live.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on December 09, 2009, 02:12:52 PM
No, I am not ,missing the point at all - exposure is 1 thing but if I have no great interest, watching a game live doesnt follow - I like watching basketball on tv but would never want to watch a game live - Fans of their own teams would prefer to watch their own team live but not other teams -

I wouldn't put Arsenal in the same envelope as Man U, Liverpool, Real Madrid and Barcelona and fans were flocking to these clubs games long before live matches were shown on tv....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on December 09, 2009, 02:17:44 PM
I wouldn't put Arsenal in the same envelope as Man U, Liverpool, Real Madrid and Barcelona and fans were flocking to these clubs games long before live matches were shown on tv....

That is why you don't have any clue about men's football. Do some research and you'll find Arsenal have had way over 95% capacity for the past twenty or so years. Also Arsenal have recently had the world record for the most paying members in world football.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on December 09, 2009, 02:34:50 PM
you dont know how much I know about mens football - but I will bow to your greater depth of knowledge and experience over many more years.....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on December 09, 2009, 02:46:42 PM
I ahve today written to the FA asking for clarification on the following..

Quote
"Following the launch of the Women’s Super League in 2011, ESPN will
have exclusive media rights for the new division. "

have asked if photography is effected and also if there are any plans re photography and the super league

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on December 09, 2009, 02:57:55 PM
thats a good move - you want to get in there as soon as you can, if they let you - your pictures are top quality....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on December 09, 2009, 03:07:13 PM
A super quick reply from the FAs PR department say it only effects broadcasting rights and not photography... so its all as it was...  I think the press release was slighly missleading by stating all media right.. but no worries and impressed by the FA quick response :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on December 09, 2009, 03:12:54 PM
you wanna frame that - be worth millions on ebay...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on December 09, 2009, 03:36:16 PM
you dont know how much I know about mens football - but I will bow to your greater depth of knowledge and experience over many more years.....

Football clubs do announce the capacity for each match.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Aphrodites Child on December 09, 2009, 03:41:16 PM
Quote
A super quick reply from the FAs PR department say it only effects broadcasting rights and not photography... so its all as it was...  I think the press release was slighly missleading by stating all media right.. but no worries and impressed by the FA quick response

 like the good news - my camera is ready for action - just do not want any native Americans doing a rain dance lol
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on December 09, 2009, 05:02:08 PM
Quote from: OOH Fayefan
....that will certainly bring in the crowds to matches, eh....

Yes, I believe it will help. In any case, televised coverage will make it easier to attract sponsorship into the clubs, and that will hopefully bring more money into the game.

why go to a live game when you can be watching it on tv - thats what I will be doing....

There's nothing like 'owt for nowt.  ;)

Some might consider it sad, but I know plenty of people who go to televised sporting matches, and then also watch the recording afterwards...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on December 09, 2009, 05:11:33 PM
I did that once , but my team still lost the match..... ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on December 10, 2009, 10:07:55 PM

why go to a live game when you can be watching it on tv - thats what I will be doing....

There's nothing like 'owt for nowt.  ;)

Some might consider it sad, but I know plenty of people who go to televised sporting matches, and then also watch the recording afterwards...

I don't have Sky, so can't record games, but watch all Arsenal games via streams on pc that I can, but I'm well chuffed that I found out yesterday that I've got 2 seats for Arsenal v Man Utd next month :)
There's nothing like actually being there ;)
I could have gone and watched it in a pub - certainly less travelling, but there'd be too many Man Utd fans  :D

Just a shame that they've rearranged the Arsenal ladies v Brum for the same day :(

Thank goodness for Arsenal TV Online for highlights of both.
(I wonder if they'll give me a discount for saying that  :D)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on December 12, 2009, 12:13:59 PM
why go to a live game when you can be watching it on tv - thats what I will be doing....

You are missing the point as these male fans and their kids would never have seen any female match before.  This deal will give weekly exposure to the games.  Over time the hope would be for some of these fans to want to attend some of these live matches.

You are in the minority of fans.  Research has shown that fans prefer to go and watch matches in the flesh.

Manchester United, Liverpool, Real Madrid, Barcelona and Arsenal regularly have games shown on TV but fans still flock to see the games live.

And pay through the nose for the privilage....one point though,, how will they decide who the Euro entries will be for the 2011 competition,,,,
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on December 12, 2009, 01:34:35 PM
one point though,, how will they decide who the Euro entries will be for the 2011 competition,,,,
The Womens Champions League rules are as followed :

rule 2.03 "UEFA member associations are represented on the following basis
b) Two representatives : winner and runner-up of the of the top domestic women's league. "
- the winner of the top domestic womens'  league starts the competition  in the round of 32
- the runner-up of the top domestic womens' league starts the competition in the qualifying round

So team X wins the League in May 2010,  enters the competition 2010/11 in the last 32 on the 30th of September 2010 and team Y runner-up of the Tesco WPL enters the competition on the 30th of July.
The Superleague teams will have the winter friendlies in October/November and the pre-season friendlies in January/February.

Obviously we will know by those dates if Team x and Y  have been chosen to compete in the Superleague.
If not, there is a loophole :

rule 2.04  "In special circumstances, the winner of the women's domestic cup competition may be entered instead of the winner of the top domestic league, provided the approval of UEFA has been obtained before the start of the season in question."

Who wants to bet that if team X or Y are not selected for the Superleague, one of the Superlague team will take their place in the Champions' League ?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on December 12, 2009, 03:43:48 PM
one point though,, how will they decide who the Euro entries will be for the 2011 competition,,,,
The Womens Champions League rules are as followed :

rule 2.03 "UEFA member associations are represented on the following basis
b) Two representatives : winner and runner-up of the of the top domestic women's league. "
- the winner of the top domestic womens'  league starts the competition  in the round of 32
- the runner-up of the top domestic womens' league starts the competition in the qualifying round

So team X wins the League in May 2010,  enters the competition 2010/11 in the last 32 on the 30th of September 2010 and team Y runner-up of the Tesco WPL enters the competition on the 30th of July.
The Superleague teams will have the winter friendlies in October/November and the pre-season friendlies in January/February.

Obviously we will know by those dates if Team x and Y  have been chosen to compete in the Superleague.
If not, there is a loophole :

rule 2.04  "In special circumstances, the winner of the women's domestic cup competition may be entered instead of the winner of the top domestic league, provided the approval of UEFA has been obtained before the start of the season in question."

Who wants to bet that if team X or Y are not selected for the Superleague, one of the Superlague team will take their place in the Champions' League ?


Mmmmm...you know what, I'm kind of sorry I asked....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on December 12, 2009, 09:04:23 PM
one point though,, how will they decide who the Euro entries will be for the 2011 competition,,,,
The Womens Champions League rules are as followed :

rule 2.03 "UEFA member associations are represented on the following basis
b) Two representatives : winner and runner-up of the of the top domestic women's league. "
- the winner of the top domestic womens'  league starts the competition  in the round of 32
- the runner-up of the top domestic womens' league starts the competition in the qualifying round

So team X wins the League in May 2010,  enters the competition 2010/11 in the last 32 on the 30th of September 2010 and team Y runner-up of the Tesco WPL enters the competition on the 30th of July.
The Superleague teams will have the winter friendlies in October/November and the pre-season friendlies in January/February.

Obviously we will know by those dates if Team x and Y  have been chosen to compete in the Superleague.
If not, there is a loophole :

rule 2.04  "In special circumstances, the winner of the women's domestic cup competition may be entered instead of the winner of the top domestic league, provided the approval of UEFA has been obtained before the start of the season in question."

Who wants to bet that if team X or Y are not selected for the Superleague, one of the Superlague team will take their place in the Champions' League ?


Mmmmm...you know what, I'm kind of sorry I asked....

 :D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on December 14, 2009, 01:48:16 PM
Sunderland's manager threatens to quit over Super League place


The Sunderland manager, Mick Mulhern, is vowing to quit women's football if his team lose out to Newcastle United in what has become a highly charged bidding contest for places in the Football Association's new Super League, whose first season will be played in the summer of 2011.

Around double the number of bids for the elite League's eight available places are expected to have been received by Friday's deadline and, as it is highly unlikely that the FA will award two places to clubs based in the north-east, either Tyneside or Wearside is set to be disappointed.

Sunderland, last season's Northern Division champions and FA Cup runners-up to Arsenal, are currently the Premier League leaders in what is their third spell of top-flight football. Newcastle lie fifth in the Northern Division having never played at the top level. Although both clubs were formed in 1989, Mulhern said: "Newcastle have no history. They're not elite, they're ordinary.

"The FA surely can't choose a team from a lower division against a side that has achieved what we have. If the eight clubs had been decided a year ago it might have been a toss-up for us to be one of them but, if we don't get in now, there's something badly wrong. And if Newcastle get in and we don't, it will make a mockery of this new league – and I would walk away from the game."

If comparative league positions were the only criterion for Super League selection, Mulhern would have no concerns, Sunderland having moved seven points clear at the top of the table today with a 2-0 win at Birmingham. It was their fourth successive victory, the first two of them having come against Arsenal and Chelsea – two of the so-called big four with Everton and Leeds.

"It's like the men's Premier League," said Mulhern, "and we're just one of the teams trying the break into that top four. Our position at the moment is a bit false because we've played seven more games than [second in the table] Arsenal, but if we finish the season as high as fourth it will be a fantastic achievement."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/dec/13/sunderland-womens-football-super-league
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on December 14, 2009, 02:38:42 PM
as it is highly unlikely that the FA will award two places to clubs based in the north-east, either Tyneside or Wearside is set to be disappointed.

I would agree wiht that.. Same with Everton/Liverpool .. However I bet the same rule isn't applied to London ...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on December 14, 2009, 06:07:07 PM
as it is highly unlikely that the FA will award two places to clubs based in the north-east, either Tyneside or Wearside is set to be disappointed.

I would agree wiht that.. Same with Everton/Liverpool .. However I bet the same rule isn't applied to London ...

Population might be a factor as well.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on December 14, 2009, 09:34:13 PM
Anyone know who's bid so far?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Rach_83 on December 14, 2009, 10:22:42 PM
Anyone know who's bid so far?


I know B'ham have put there's together, not sure if its complete and submitted though.  :-\
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on December 14, 2009, 10:31:00 PM
Would we agree Arsenal and Everton Guaranteed a place. Doncaster Belles being 99% sure. Probably Leeds and Chelsea..

Thats 5 teams I would be mega suprised not being in it.  Only leaves three places..
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on December 14, 2009, 10:35:20 PM
Do Everton have enough money though ? it looks  like one of the main criteria.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on December 15, 2009, 12:05:20 AM
Geoff has told us that OOH Lincoln have put in a bid :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: David on December 15, 2009, 12:09:16 AM
My other three from Kip's would probably be Birmingham, OOH Lincoln and Sunderland

But the unknown might be how many London clubs the FA wants to shoehorn in so maybe someone like Watford for either Blues or OOH ? It depends if any of the London clubs from the league below are prepared to back their team al la OOH Lincoln perhaps...

Unless Man U are going to put in a bid of course
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on December 15, 2009, 01:13:08 AM
Will the FA announce who have put in bids?  ???
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: David on December 15, 2009, 01:24:59 AM
Super League News
 
·         The deadline for clubs application bids for the 2011 FA Women’s Super League is Friday 18th December
·         The FA announced last week a new 4 year broadcast partnership with ESPN to broadcast The FA Cup. As part of the deal, ESPN also has rights to the Women’s Super League and will be the broadcast partner for 2011 and 2012
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: treble99 on December 15, 2009, 01:30:40 AM
Dave where have you been?? typical Gooner " I didn't see it!" (aka Arsene the blind man!)  read the previous threads and catch up...
Whats the continual concern re ; Man United ???
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on December 15, 2009, 10:05:53 AM
Would we agree Arsenal and Everton Guaranteed a place. Doncaster Belles being 99% sure. Probably Leeds and Chelsea..

Thats 5 teams I would be mega suprised not being in it.  Only leaves three places..

No team is guaranteed a place in the new league. It will all come down to the quality of the bid.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on December 15, 2009, 10:51:52 AM
Belles bid backed by Blades

A collaboration of South Yorkshire sporting expertise has been formed to provide Doncaster Rovers Belles with a pathway to top-flight women’s football.

The Belles are bidding to win a professional franchise in the new FA Women’s Super League and have gained support from Sheffield United’s community scheme, their girls centre of excellence, Sheffield Hallam University and Sheffield Hallam Students Union.

To help secure their place in the new Super League, which is set to kick-off in March 2011, the club needs to show the FA that their structure for player development is sufficient for a leading professional team.

The new partnership means that girls in South Yorkshire who show potential as top footballers, have a clear path to boost their skills.

At the moment many up to the age of 16 play for very successful local clubs, or if selected, attend the girls’ centre for excellence at Sheffield United’s Shirecliffe Academy, where they are given top-class coaching from the club’s professional staff.

From there the Belles have developed a partnership with Balby Academy of Sport in Doncaster which offers 16-19 year-olds the opportunity to continue their full-time education, while gaining six hours of coaching each week.

Under the new partnership, the best players will then be able to go on to study at Sheffield Hallam University and play with their women's squad. This enables players to enjoy further and higher education alongside their football development, whilst benefiting from the sport science support available at the University.

The end result will see the top players being given the chance to be selected for the Belles squad, potentially in the new professional Super League, where many of the games will be televised. The partnership was announced at Bramall Lane during United’s Championship clash with Crystal Palace.

The FA is looking for eight teams to make up the Super League and entries need to be submitted by December 18. If their bid is successful, the Belles are aiming to play their home matches at the Keepmoat Stadium in Doncaster, which recently staged an England women’s international match.

The Belles are one of the oldest female clubs in the country and have played in the women’s national Premier League for more than 15 years. Football is currently the country’s fastest growing team sport for women, with more than 160 junior teams in the Sheffield and Hallamshire FA region alone.

John James, chairman of Doncaster Belles, said: “This is a win win scenario for all concerned and is the final piece in the jigsaw for the Belles in helping to bring new players through the ranks.

“We already have a good base of junior clubs in South Yorkshire and, with the support of the Sheffield United’s centre of excellence and Sheffield Hallam University, we can bring together the community with education to boost women’s football over the long-term."

The Sheffield United girls’ centre of excellence has developed a strong reputation for finding excellent young players from across South Yorkshire.

Also, the club’s community division The United Initiative is working hard to increase the amount of football activities available for girls, through coaching sessions and creating links with local schools.

Professor Ian Maynard from Sheffield Hallam University added: "This is a fantastic development for South Yorkshire. Seldom do you see such a good example of joined-up thinking in elite sport.

“It is hoped that this partnership will help support the Belles in their application for FA Women's Super League status by providing a higher education pathway for the players as well as sport science support to the team.

“Likewise, the agreement should help improve the standard of women's football at Sheffield Hallam University, so it is obviously mutually beneficial to all parties, as well as being a big plus for the region.”

Source: Fairgame
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on December 15, 2009, 11:52:21 AM
Do Everton have enough money though ? it looks  like one of the main criteria.

No I don't think they have unless some mystery donor has come up with some doe...They didn't apply the last time either...they don't meet the support criteria either but then very few clubs do so they might have to skip over that one....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on December 15, 2009, 01:03:15 PM
Do Everton have enough money though ? it looks  like one of the main criteria.

No I don't think they have unless some mystery donor has come up with some doe...They didn't apply the last time either...they don't meet the support criteria either but then very few clubs do so they might have to skip over that one....

How do you know Everton were not applying last April?  The FA took the decision to defer the new Super Leagueat the FA's Board meeting on 31st March 2009.  The FA did a press release the following day to officially announce the decision.  The original deadline for submitting applications was 24th April 2009.  Assuming Everton had not, as was rumoured, submitted a bid as of the 1st April, how do you know they weren’t in the process of completing their application in time for the deadline of 24th April?  The deadline was a few weeks away and so most clubs were still in the process of completing all the relevant documents.  Arsenal announced at the time that they had been “nearing the completion of their submission bid for their place in the Women’s Super League but that [had] been put on hold until further notice”.  Everton would have been in the same boat.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: redrobin on December 15, 2009, 01:16:17 PM
Can you imagine the furore there would be on the back pages of our papers if this was the Premiership instead of the top women's league we were talking about. Franchise bidding. No relegation or promotion. Any club can apply.

The F.A. are supposed to hold the responsibility for safeguarding the interests of the game from top to bottom. With clubs folding at regular intervals just below the Premier League you'd think they might express a flicker of interest but no they're transfixed with their eight club franchise championship.

Football should be about ups and downs. If you get it right on the pitch like Watford, Forest, Chelsea and Sunderland in recent seasons then you earn the right to play in the top flight.  If you get it wrong, whether it be onfield or off-field like Charlton, Fulham and Southampton in the same period then you slide down the pyramid.

The use of "with all due respect" is usually a signpost nowadays for an impendng insult. On the contrary I have the utmost respect for the ambitions of OOH Lincoln and others who want to compete at the top level of their sport and have endeavoured to grow their clubs to match these ambitions. My one visit to Collingham was a pleasant matchday experience, helped by a nice desisive cup win, and the only minus on the day was that the Sunday trains weren't running. Nevertheless, despite all the positives that remain in the memory about the club from that one visit, the fact remains that Liverpool, Forest and Sunderland have proved the better in recent seasons despite all their efforts off and on the field. That has always been the final measure for success in football and it's a shame that the F.A. seem dead set on changing this core value.

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on December 15, 2009, 01:26:37 PM
Can you imagine the furore there would be on the back pages of our papers if this was the Premiership instead of the top women's league we were talking about. Franchise bidding. No relegation or promotion. Any club can apply.

Have you read all the application pack?  They do touch on the leagues below the new Super League in the documents.  All the literature is available to read at www.thefa.com/Leagues/SuperLeague.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on December 15, 2009, 03:32:19 PM
No team is guaranteed a place in the new league. It will all come down to the quality of the bid.

however... Back in the real world  ;D ;D ;D... Arsenal could just nod in the FAs general direction and get in.... Come on really we all know Arsenal will be in and I doubt anyone will be suprised or have anyhting against either...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: redrobin on December 15, 2009, 04:29:58 PM
Can you imagine the furore there would be on the back pages of our papers if this was the Premiership instead of the top women's league we were talking about. Franchise bidding. No relegation or promotion. Any club can apply.

Have you read all the application pack?  They do touch on the leagues below the new Super League in the documents.  All the literature is available to read at www.thefa.com/Leagues/SuperLeague.

I could ask you the same??
Any reference to the Premier League is at best marginal and the Combination and County League structures might as well be non-existent. Even the refernces to the Cup are concentrated on when the Franchise 8 are planned to take part in the competition.

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on December 15, 2009, 04:45:31 PM
Can you imagine the furore there would be on the back pages of our papers if this was the Premiership instead of the top women's league we were talking about. Franchise bidding. No relegation or promotion. Any club can apply.

Have you read all the application pack?  They do touch on the leagues below the new Super League in the documents.  All the literature is available to read at www.thefa.com/Leagues/SuperLeague.

I could ask you the same??
Any reference to the Premier League is at best marginal and the Combination and County League structures might as well be non-existent. Even the refernces to the Cup are concentrated on when the Franchise 8 are planned to take part in the competition.

As would be expected from documents relating solely to the new league.

No team is guaranteed a place in the new league. It will all come down to the quality of the bid.

however... Back in the real world  ;D ;D ;D... Arsenal could just nod in the FAs general direction and get in.... Come on really we all know Arsenal will be in and I doubt anyone will be suprised or have anyhting against either...

Read the application pack and you’ll find not all the panel will be FA employees.  Also they’ll be using a scoring system to judge the applications.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on December 15, 2009, 10:40:54 PM
Read the application pack and you’ll find not all the panel will be FA employees.  Also they’ll be using a scoring system to judge the applications.

Is it going to be like X Factor, Strictly Come Dancing etc then?  :D
Can we have a phone in?  ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: treble99 on December 16, 2009, 01:00:24 AM
No relegation or promotion does that mean EVERY season thereafter, the winners of the leagues that should've had automatic promotion will have to bid?? until the FA decide the superleague has enough teams??? Or again will it be open to ANY team can bid??........

Ambitious Eastern Region premier division side Braintree Town Ladies have opted against submitting a bid for an initial place in the FA Women’s Super League, due to launch in March 2011.

The new semi-professional league will consist of eight teams playing during the summer months, in an attempt to prevent the best female players in the country being tempted overseas by foreign leagues.

Despite promises of up to £70,000 financial support from The FA to aid club development, each club has to provide evidence of a budget of around a quarter of a million pounds per year for players wages, staffing costs and facilities and despite strenuous efforts by Braintree’s bid team the numbers proved too much for an initial bid.

Braintree secretary Dave Clarke was philosophical saying “We’ve spent the last couple of months crunching the numbers, looking at various options for business plans and funding streams, trying to get the figures to add up but we have to be realistic. With the economy as it is sponsorship is hard to find, certainly at the levels we would be looking for.

The fact that we are even having discussions about the top flight of women’s football shows how far the club has come in just four seasons”

“The FA has been very supportive of our efforts, and we wouldn’t even have considered getting this far into the bidding process without the backing of Lee Harding and the Board of Directors at Braintree Town, but on this occasion it’s not to be.

They have always been fantastic with their approach to women’s football, and we know we are the envy of a lot of clubs because of the setup we have, but we’ll concentrate on matters on the pitch now and see where we are when the bidding process for 2013 begins.”

“Four years is a long time in football and it would be nice to earn a place at the top of the pyramid by merit. Our aim, since we started in 2005, has always been to see the Ladies playing at the highest level possible and there are a number of developments planned for the club as a whole, particularly the new stadium and the community initiatives, that will benefit us substantially.

However, we have seen from the men’s game that a bid has to be financially viable and jumping too many steps too quickly could actually do us more harm than good in the long run.”

“With a broadcast deal with ESPN in place for the Super League hopefully the pieces of the jigsaw will start to drop into place for The FA, because even at the launch there were a number of key questions still be answered, but we are desperate for the new league to be successful because it will raise the profile of the female game, and the benefits of that will filter down through the leagues and include clubs like ours,” Clarke added

Source Fair Game
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on December 16, 2009, 11:24:27 AM
Braintree and an 'elite' league never crossed my mind to be in the same sentence.....a bit like having Mangotsfield Town FC in the Premier League alongside Man U, etc, etc...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on December 16, 2009, 12:12:10 PM
Same I remember a mixed team of fringe and reserves player beating them easily in a pre-season friendly.
They would need loads of money to buy players off other teams.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on December 16, 2009, 12:44:08 PM
..tell me again what is going to happen after this season and the begining of the superduper league in 2011?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on December 16, 2009, 12:54:17 PM
..tell me again what is going to happen after this season and the begining of the superduper league in 2011?
Armageddon  ;)
The Tesco Womens Premier League will carry on as a Winter League with National division and North and South division below as of today and the 8 clubs/franchise  will separate from the rest and play in the Superleague from March.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on December 16, 2009, 12:58:45 PM
so, this season ends in May 2010 - then new Elite League starts in March 2011 - and what happens in between?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on December 16, 2009, 12:59:58 PM
Friendlies + Champions League games for the Superleague teams.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on December 16, 2009, 01:01:19 PM
..that will be interesting when they get knocked out......... :(
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on December 16, 2009, 03:37:30 PM
one point though,, how will they decide who the Euro entries will be for the 2011 competition,,,,
I have just asked the FA to clarify that point, we will see if they reply to my e-mail. ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on December 16, 2009, 04:50:42 PM
..tell me again what is going to happen after this season and the begining of the superduper league in 2011?
Armageddon  ;)

The sky falling on your head would probably be more fitting to this thread.  ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on December 16, 2009, 08:30:18 PM
Regarding, Everton Ladies and the Super League. 

I have it on good authority (Mo Marley).... that the club will have use of an all-seater stadium and all the financial backing that they need.  There is no doubt about this...I asked a direct question and received a direct answer.  'Everton FC will back the ladies team 100%'.   
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on December 17, 2009, 07:13:11 AM
Regarding, Everton Ladies and the Super League. 

I have it on good authority (Mo Marley).... that the club will have use of an all-seater stadium and all the financial backing that they need.  There is no doubt about this...I asked a direct question and received a direct answer.  'Everton FC will back the ladies team 100%'.   

I always thought people were jumping to conclusions.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on December 17, 2009, 08:03:36 PM
Regarding, Everton Ladies and the Super League.  

I have it on good authority (Mo Marley).... that the club will have use of an all-seater stadium and all the financial backing that they need.  There is no doubt about this...I asked a direct question and received a direct answer.  'Everton FC will back the ladies team 100%'.  

Mmmm...well, it will be interesting to hear which stadium this would be,,,Marine no more though, ha....unless they are making Marine an allseater stadium which they could do if a lot of people brought deckchairs...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on December 17, 2009, 11:34:33 PM
Regarding, Everton Ladies and the Super League.  

I have it on good authority (Mo Marley).... that the club will have use of an all-seater stadium and all the financial backing that they need.  There is no doubt about this...I asked a direct question and received a direct answer.  'Everton FC will back the ladies team 100%'.  

Mmmm...well, it will be interesting to hear which stadium this would be,,,Marine no more though, ha....unless they are making Marine an allseater stadium which they could do if a lot of people brought deckchairs...

And not the easiest of grounds to show on tv.
Title: Super League applications received -16 clubs have applied to join the new league
Post by: Rach_83 on December 21, 2009, 11:37:21 AM
Super League applications received

Monday, 21 December, 2009

16 clubs have applied to join the new FA Women's Super League.
The FA can today announce that 16 clubs presented their applications on Friday 18 December to be part of the new FA Women’s Super League, launching in March 2011.

Subject to clubs meeting the required criteria, an optimum eight licences will be offered to the strongest applicants by March 2010, giving all clubs a full 12 months to prepare for the launch of The League.

The following clubs have applied to be part of The FA Women’s Super League:

Arsenal Ladies FC, Barnet FC, Birmingham City Ladies FC, Bristol Academy Women’s FC, Chelsea Ladies FC, Colchester United Ladies FC, Doncaster Rovers Belles, Everton Ladies FC, Leeds Carnegie Ladies FC, Leicester City FC, Lincoln City, Liverpool, Millwall Lionesses FC, Newcastle United Women's FC, Nottingham Forest, Sunderland Women’s FC.

The FA’s Chief Executive, Ian Watmore, said: “We are delighted with the number of bids we have received from clubs who wish to be part of The Women’s Super League in this country.

"This is a very strong indication that the vision we have of creating an elite League that will take our domestic game to a higher level is shared by many people within women’s football. We now have to work hard to ensure we have a comprehensive and thorough review process of all bids received and we look forward to announcing the successful clubs in 2010.”

http://www.thefa.com/Leagues/SuperLeague/NewsAndFeatures/2009/Applications2112.aspx (http://www.thefa.com/Leagues/SuperLeague/NewsAndFeatures/2009/Applications2112.aspx)
Title: Barnet bullish about a surprise women's Premier League place
Post by: Rach_83 on December 21, 2009, 12:00:03 PM

Barnet bullish about a surprise women's Premier League place


• We are very confident, says Barnet's manager, Tracy Kevins
• Kelly Smith up for world player of the year award in Zürich

There will be a couple of surprise contenders when the Football Association reveals the identities of the 16 clubs set to compete for the eight available places in the new Super League, scheduled to start in the summer of 2011.

As well as 10 of the Premier League's 12 teams there will be four from the Northern Division and two from the Southern Division, whose current leaders, Barnet, may have been unexpected bidders but are bullish about their chances. "Together with the men's club and other partners we've put together a very strong bid," said the manager, Tracy Kevins. "We've got a playing squad that, with one or two additions, would be able to compete at the top level and off the pitch the backing we get is excellent. We are very confident."

As the FA is hoping to make the league geographically equitable, Barnet could be awarded the place that might have been taken by their near-neighbours Watford, one of the top flight's non-bidders along with Blackburn Rovers. Geography will not necessarily be the key watchword, however, when the selection panel announces the elite eight in March.

"A good geographical spread would be ideal," said the FA's bid co-ordinator, Sally Horrox, "but commercial sustainability will be vital and on the playing side we want clubs who can make this a world-class league."

Already world class though no longer in the English club game is the Boston Breakers striker Kelly Smith, who after starring in England's run to the 2009 European Championship final could be named world player of the year when the award ceremony takes place in Zürich on Wednesday. "It's been my best year internationally and winning the award would crown my career, " said the 31-year old, who has been voted one of the world's top five players in each of the last three years. She will be up against two previous winners in the Brazilian Marta, who currently holds the title, and Germany's Birgit Prinz, as well as Cristiane (Brazil) and Inka Grings (Germany).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/dec/20/super-league-barnet-womens-football (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/dec/20/super-league-barnet-womens-football)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: pat51 on December 21, 2009, 12:01:31 PM
An interesting list of 16 with a few surprises. Watford and Blackburn Rovers from the current National league not involved and applications from several teams in the North and South divisions. Why not just accept all 16 and have Superleague 1 and 2 with promotion and relegation and reduced financial demands for the second division teams...or regionalise it North and South ( with apologies to Rach_83 !) ?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on December 21, 2009, 12:07:25 PM
My bet : Arsenal Everton Chelsea Sunderland Birmingham Lincoln Doncaster Leeds.

I have to say, I am extremely surprised that 16 teams are making a bid considering the requirements  :o
You need a lot in term of money, administration etc.
I foresee some moaning when the 8 selected teams are revealed...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on December 21, 2009, 12:32:46 PM
those so called super teams do nothing to whet my appetite but I guess they might cream off all the top players from the other clubs to make a go of it.......as for me, I'm lookong forward to following my locla women's team carry on playing winter football every other week....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Rach_83 on December 21, 2009, 12:44:08 PM
An interesting list of 16 with a few surprises. Watford and Blackburn Rovers from the current National league not involved and applications from several teams in the North and South divisions. Why not just accept all 16 and have Superleague 1 and 2 with promotion and relegation and reduced financial demands for the second division teams...or regionalise it North and South ( with apologies to Rach_83 !) ?

....or maybe just make it only teams from the centre of the country working outward, pick 8  :P

I do wonder why they don't try a league with all 16 if they meet the criteria or at least the 12, bet they will change their minds. There is also an article on the guardian site, with Mick Mulhern stating if Newcastle get in ahead of Sunderland (due to the belief only one team from various regions will make it) then he will walk away from the women's game. When I asked the FA this year @ grass roots live, apparently league form will have no basis on choosing which teams make it.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on December 21, 2009, 12:49:07 PM
thats all good sensible thinking by the FA...as usual..
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on December 21, 2009, 02:07:46 PM
There is also an article on the guardian site, with Mick Mulhern stating if Newcastle get in ahead of Sunderland (due to the belief only one team from various regions will make it) then he will walk away from the women's game.

Hopefully the FA will ignore threats when they decide.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on December 21, 2009, 03:12:22 PM
An interesting list of 16 with a few surprises. Watford and Blackburn Rovers from the current National league not involved

I am quite shocked to be honest.. i just presumed blackburn would apply ...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on December 21, 2009, 03:25:24 PM
An interesting list of 16 with a few surprises. Watford and Blackburn Rovers from the current National league not involved
I am quite shocked to be honest.. i just presumed blackburn would apply ...
I thought like 5 or 6 team would apply to be honest.
I mean every team fail the 300 spectators on average requirement for example.
I just wonder what kind of deal and sponsorship those 16 teams have because they really need at least 500k for the two superleague seasons.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on December 21, 2009, 03:33:14 PM
...has Brian Rix written all over it.... ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on December 21, 2009, 05:46:46 PM
An interesting list of 16 with a few surprises. Watford and Blackburn Rovers from the current National league not involved
I am quite shocked to be honest.. i just presumed blackburn would apply ...
I thought like 5 or 6 team would apply to be honest.
I mean every team fail the 300 spectators on average requirement for example.
I just wonder what kind of deal and sponsorship those 16 teams have because they really need at least 500k for the two superleague seasons.

I'm surprised only 16 applied in the end. They never said a team needs to meet the attendance requirment at this moment in time.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on December 21, 2009, 05:54:07 PM
My bet : Arsenal Everton Chelsea Sunderland Birmingham Lincoln Doncaster Leeds.

I have to say, I am extremely surprised that 16 teams are making a bid considering the requirements  :o
You need a lot in term of money, administration etc.
I foresee some moaning when the 8 selected teams are revealed...

The English regions:

(https://www.womensfootball.eu/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk%2Fpa%2Fcm200607%2Fcmselect%2Fcmcomloc%2F352%2F35201.gif&hash=efc729cd88e88b6ec04684b099662caa35b14610)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: treble99 on December 21, 2009, 06:03:03 PM
Regarding, Everton Ladies and the Super League.  

I have it on good authority (Mo Marley).... that the club will have use of an all-seater stadium and all the financial backing that they need.  There is no doubt about this...I asked a direct question and received a direct answer.  'Everton FC will back the ladies team 100%'.  

Mmmm...well, it will be interesting to hear which stadium this would be,,,Marine no more though, ha....unless they are making Marine an allseater stadium which they could do if a lot of people brought deckchairs...

And not the easiest of grounds to show on tv.

Morecambe F.C. looks favourite!!

Why not have a Premier league "A" and Premier league"B",...promotion and relegation would be alternative each season, either 1 or 2 teams would change leagues. This would come into play if top 2 teams in the B league acquired or failed to get the funding needed to gain access to Premier league A, if not they stay in B?
"A" League relegation zone teams would therefore get another season in the top flight????

Any thoughts??

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on December 21, 2009, 06:09:21 PM
Thanks for the map, we never got that at school  :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on December 21, 2009, 06:13:58 PM
Any thoughts??

Yes. Concentrate on getting one division to work first, and then consider expansion later.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on December 21, 2009, 06:19:36 PM
It looks like they could pick pretty much one club from each of the regions.

London

Arsenal Ladies FC (N.B. They currently play home games in the East of England region)
Barnet FC
Chelsea Ladies FC (N.B. They currently play home games in the South East region)
Millwall Lionesses FC

South East

Chelsea Ladies FC (see note above)

South West

Bristol Academy Women’s FC

East of England

Arsenal Ladies FC (see note above)
Colchester United Ladies FC

West Midlands

Birmingham City Ladies FC

East Midlands

Leicester City FC
Lincoln City
Nottingham Forest

North West

Everton Ladies FC
Liverpool

Yorkshire & The Humber

Doncaster Rovers Belles
Leeds Carnegie Ladies FC

North East

Newcastle United Women's FC
Sunderland Women’s FC
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on December 21, 2009, 08:34:28 PM
re everton.. i thought it was common knowledge they got widnes rugby stadium for this?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on December 21, 2009, 09:36:46 PM
Everton have got Widnes RL Stadium to use, Mo confirmed it to me the other week.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: treble99 on December 21, 2009, 10:24:09 PM
Any thoughts??

Yes. Concentrate on getting one division to work first, and then consider expansion late



But if there's 16 teams bidding??
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on December 21, 2009, 11:01:15 PM
Are those 16 teams really ready for the big jump required by the FA ?
I mean if they have the huge funding needed why didn't it materialise before ?
The way I read the thing is like asking someone jumping 3.10 at pole vault on regular basis to now jump 6.15
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on December 21, 2009, 11:22:54 PM
It looks like they could pick pretty much one club from each of the regions.

London

Arsenal Ladies FC (N.B. They currently play home games in the East of England region)
Barnet FC
Chelsea Ladies FC (N.B. They currently play home games in the South East region)
Millwall Lionesses FC

South East

Chelsea Ladies FC (see note above)

South West

Bristol Academy Women’s FC

East of England

Arsenal Ladies FC (see note above)
Colchester United Ladies FC

West Midlands

Birmingham City Ladies FC

East Midlands

Leicester City FC
Lincoln City
Nottingham Forest

North West

Everton Ladies FC
Liverpool

Yorkshire & The Humber

Doncaster Rovers Belles
Leeds Carnegie Ladies FC

North East

Newcastle United Women's FC
Sunderland Women’s FC

That's 9 regions - didn't they once say they wanted a team from each region?

Or has that now changed?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on December 22, 2009, 10:29:13 AM
re everton.. i thought it was common knowledge they got widnes rugby stadium for this?

I though about that, but wondered about the size of it...

Everton have got Widnes RL Stadium to use, Mo confirmed it to me the other week.

Its a big place they got a good crowd there last season but will they get that every week? Mmmmm
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on December 22, 2009, 04:26:32 PM
Any thoughts??
Yes. Concentrate on getting one division to work first, and then consider expansion later
But if there's 16 teams bidding??

Sixteen applicants is very encouraging.

We don't know the exact quality of those bids though, and in any case, the whole set up seems to have been planned around an initial eight teams. I doubt there will be such radical changes, as two leagues would represent, this far down the line. IMO.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on December 22, 2009, 08:44:04 PM
Thanks for the map, we never got that at school  :)

We gathered that ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on December 29, 2009, 04:22:50 PM
FA Super League brochure features Katie Chapman and Leanne Sanderson - both to star in the United States WPS next year. Another own goal by the FA's marketing people
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on December 29, 2009, 04:54:50 PM
FA Super League brochure features Katie Chapman and Leanne Sanderson - both to star in the United States WPS next year. Another own goal by the FA's marketing people

That brochure was done many months before Katie and Lianne got drafted by the US teams.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Roberts on December 29, 2009, 06:24:29 PM
Oh dear, they're goin to have to find 2 new stars to promote the game.....the wps could use it as a scouting guide as to who to nick next from england ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Aphrodites Child on December 29, 2009, 07:23:19 PM
Quote
Oh dear, they're goin to have to find 2 new stars to promote the game.....the wps could use it as a scouting guide as to who to nick next from england

by time 2011 comes around we could have the WPS equivalent of game 39 played in England or an England WPS XI vs England Super League XI pre-World Cup warm up - assuming England qualify for Germany
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on December 30, 2009, 10:58:45 PM
I know there isn't much time to fit in games, but I often wonder why the men's game stopped inter-league matches, eg I remember the English League XI playing the Italian League XI.
Maybe all the club European fixtures brought that to a halt  ???

I reckon if they had a WPS v Super league game, it'd just help the US to recruit more players from here  :D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on December 31, 2009, 10:04:34 AM
Bardsley - Scott Asante x x - Chapman Williams - Sanderson Smith Aluko Carney against  Brown - Johnson White Houghton Stoney - J. Scott   Westwood Buet - Clarke Handley S Smith
WPS teams need to draft a left back and a center back  ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on January 04, 2010, 01:46:15 PM
LADIES SUBMIT SUPER LEAGUE APPLICATION

Everton Ladies have submitted their final application to participate in the FA's Women's Super League.

The league, which is due to launch in March 2011, will be compile of eight carefully selected Clubs, and today the FA announced a total of 16 clubs have applied to join the new competition format.
 
Back in October, representatives from the Blues' Ladies set-up travelled to Wembley to hear more about the plans for the eight-strong league.

The Club then delivered a detailed business proposal as to why Everton should be one of the teams to join the league in time for the application deadline last week.

Officials at the FA will now carefully consider each individual application and will announce the successful applications early in the New Year.

Along with Everton, the following clubs have applied to be part of The FA Women’s Super League:

Arsenal Ladies FC, Barnet FC, Birmingham City Ladies FC, Bristol Academy Women’s FC, Chelsea Ladies FC, Colchester United Ladies FC, Doncaster Rovers Belles, Leeds Carnegie Ladies FC, Leicester City FC, Lincoln City, Liverpool, Millwall Lionesses FC, Newcastle United Women's FC, Nottingham Forest, Sunderland Women’s FC.

Blackburn Rovers and Watford were the only two teams from the Women's Premier League who did not submit an application.

And having worked tirelessly to make sure the Club submitted a very strong application, Everton Ladies manager Mo Marley admitted she is nervous about hearing the final outcome. 

"It's not only a big time for women's football, its a big time for Everton Ladies," Marley told evertonfc.com.
 
"We've sustained where we are on the pitch and we are top competitors in the Premier League. And its the next the next big step not only for the league, but also for our team.

"It was a comprehensive application process and you have to show dedication and 100% commitment to the women's game, and at Everton we have got that. It's a massively big step for us.

"It's good to know who we are competing with. Obviously we've got a 50% chance, so that's better."

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/ladies-submit-super-league-application.html?utm_source=rss_everton&utm_medium=rss_feed&utm_term=Ladies+Submit+Super+League+Application
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on January 05, 2010, 12:18:21 AM
Although I'm an Arsenal fan, Everton are running us very close.

So, if they don't get a place in the Super League, it will make the whole thing a waste of space  >:(
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on January 05, 2010, 08:03:18 AM
If they don't get it and we don't as well, it will be fine :  the rivalry will carry on in the winter League.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on January 05, 2010, 08:59:15 AM
if the Toffees dont get in, all their best players will join the other clubs that do, and then Arsenal will have another rival...unless, they all go abroad somewhere.....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on January 05, 2010, 11:14:06 AM
if the Toffees dont get in, all their best players will join the other clubs that do, and then Arsenal will have another rival...unless, they all go abroad somewhere.....

The way its going they might be all away before the thing even gets started,,,I kind of doubt that both Arsenal and Everton would both be left out..I'm still not convinced about Everton though..
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on January 06, 2010, 11:43:38 PM
if the Toffees dont get in, all their best players will join the other clubs that do, and then Arsenal will have another rival...unless, they all go abroad somewhere.....

The way its going they might be all away before the thing even gets started,,,I kind of doubt that both Arsenal and Everton would both be left out..I'm still not convinced about Everton though..
It's another case of "Wait and see", I suppose  ???
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on January 11, 2010, 06:51:12 PM
Johnson talks up Reds league spot

Liverpool Ladies manager Robbie Johnson believes his side can compete with Everton and Arsenal for a place in the 2011 FA Women's Super League.

The new competition will be played in the summer and has had 16 applicants for just eight spots.

Johnson told BBC Radio Merseyside: "The facilities and some of the sponsorship deals we have, hopefully that will be an attractive proposition.

"We're hoping the support we've been given by the club will be a plus."

Liverpool play in the Northern Division, and are currently top the league after winning all of their 12 games so far this season.

Many of the big clubs have applied, including Arsenal, Chelsea, Leeds and local rivals Everton.

Selected games from the new league will be shown live on ESPN after the FA agreed a deal with the broadcaster back in December.

Source: BBC
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on January 12, 2010, 12:11:23 AM
Johnson talks up Reds league spot

Liverpool Ladies manager Robbie Johnson believes his side can compete with Everton and Arsenal for a place in the 2011 FA Women's Super League.

The new competition will be played in the summer and has had 16 applicants for just eight spots.

Johnson told BBC Radio Merseyside: "The facilities and some of the sponsorship deals we have, hopefully that will be an attractive proposition.

"We're hoping the support we've been given by the club will be a plus."

Liverpool play in the Northern Division, and are currently top the league after winning all of their 12 games so far this season.

Many of the big clubs have applied, including Arsenal, Chelsea, Leeds and local rivals Everton.

Selected games from the new league will be shown live on ESPN after the FA agreed a deal with the broadcaster back in December.

Source: BBC

I wonder how much will be based on this when it comes to making a decision?  ???
Title: Rovers decide against Super League
Post by: Sylvain on January 25, 2010, 03:10:51 PM
Blackburn Rovers have confirmed that after careful consideration they decided not to submit an application to join the new FA Women's Super League, which is due to commence in March 2011.

While remaining committed to women's and girls football, officials have decided that the timing of the proposal does not fall in line with current plans.

"Our women's and girls section is fully integrated and supported by Blackburn Rovers Football Club," said secretary Gemma Donnelly.

"However, part of the criteria of the Super League relates to it becoming a separate legal entity by July.
"Clearly we were keen to become involved in what will hopefully be an exciting development for the women's game and whilst there was no guarantee that any application would be successful, there are many positive aspects of both our women's and girls sections, particularly a highly regarded Centre of Excellence.

"However, there were other additional infrastructure and personnel requirements which we do not yet feel ready to make."

The BRFC Ladies' team has grown quickly following promotion to the Women's Premier League in 2006 and we are in the process of embarking on some new initiatives which will require the club's full focus and effort.

BRFC Ladies will continue to participate in the Women's Premier League, which we will be re-organised towards the end of the current season.

"Hopefully, these initiatives will put us in a better position to consider an application following the end of the first two-year closed period of the Super League," added Gemma.

"We now have an opportunity to review and evaluate our current status and work towards developing new initiatives in a controlled and gradual manner.

"At the same time, we will watch and learn from the teams who participate in the inaugural Super League."

http://www.rovers.co.uk/page/LadiesNews/0,,10303~1938465,00.html

It looks to me that Rovers are doing the sensible thing by not applying if they feel they are not ready.
I find it odd that there are 16 teams that seem to have a big funding commitment available for the Superleague considering how difficult it is to survive in the current situation.   ???
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on January 25, 2010, 03:17:55 PM
Teams dont want to miss the boat.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Oldship30 on January 25, 2010, 06:26:50 PM
JacquiOatley has just tweeted this:

Big blow for women's football. Just heard one of top clubs, Leeds Carnegie, have withdrawn their bid for Superleague place.

 :(
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on January 25, 2010, 06:36:31 PM
Their funding has been withdrawn apparently, it is really a shame.
You just wonder if their players will then move to Superleague clubs  ???
They do have a few good players like Houghton Telford Cantrell White or Moore that would be welcomed in
most teams.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on January 25, 2010, 06:43:06 PM
belly up , belly up, belly up.... :(
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on January 25, 2010, 07:24:35 PM
The news is great for Donny.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on January 25, 2010, 07:26:27 PM
belly up , belly up, belly up.... :(

Leeds had no link with a men's club so the financial side was always going to be hard.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on January 25, 2010, 07:36:48 PM
if i where a betting man i would say the super league aint gonna happen.. not in 2011 anyways.. its a shambles...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on January 25, 2010, 07:37:27 PM
that's what I meant by belly up - nothing to do with Leeds.........
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on January 25, 2010, 07:43:19 PM
if i where a betting man i would say the super league aint gonna happen.. not in 2011 anyways.. its a shambles...

A bet you are completely wrong. You've been negative about this new league from the start.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on January 25, 2010, 07:53:22 PM
Leeds Carnegie Ladies have withdrawn their application to join Super League.
The FA can today confirm that Leeds Carnegie Ladies FC has withdrawn its application for a place in The FA Women's Super League.

The FA would like to thank Leeds Carnegie Ladies for the time and resources invested by everyone at the club in order to prepare their application and looks forward to supporting the club in the future.

Leeds Carnegie Ladies will continue to play in The FA Tesco Women's Premier League for the remainder of the 2009-2010 season. The club is also looking forward to competing in The FA Tesco Women's Premier League Cup Final on Thursday 11 February against Everton Ladies.

Please refer any further media enquiries to Helen Goodwin, Head of News and Media at Leeds Metropolitan University, on 07826 876657 or e-mail H.G.Goodwin@leedsmet.ac.uk

http://www.thefa.com/Leagues/SuperLeague/NewsAndFeatures/2010/LeedsCarnegie2501.aspx
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on January 25, 2010, 08:17:29 PM
How can it work with only 8 clubs in it?  A 16-18 club league (with promotion and relegation), heavily promoted by the Men's clubs would get people down to watch.  Let's see what the attendance is at Rochdale - 3,000 to 4,000 at max with loads of free tickets given away.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on January 25, 2010, 09:33:22 PM
A bet you are completely wrong. You've been negative about this new league from the start.

What difference does it make how long I ahve been neg about it?  Plus everyhting that happens is just proving me right..

So whats the bet?

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on January 25, 2010, 09:47:58 PM
Seems from the tone of that artical that Leeds Cardigan may fold at the end of the season....They say they are committed to the finish 2009/10 season and take part in the PL Cup but that seems to be it....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on January 25, 2010, 09:54:48 PM
Fold? it doesn't say that at all, the name Leeds Carnegie says it all....the club is attached to Leeds Met University.  At present the only league that exists is the FA Tesco Premier League (National, Northern & Southern).  The loss of 8 clubs from this set-up means that a new league will have to be created, once the 8 'elite' clubs move to the summer. Leeds, Blackburn will compete in this league alongside clubs like Preston, Reading, Manchester City etc. 
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on January 25, 2010, 10:25:58 PM
They didn't mention playing in the national League beyond this season Blackburn bent over backwards to stress that they would be playing the reformed national premier foe 2010/11...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on January 25, 2010, 10:58:24 PM
.....my opinion is that an 8 team 'super ' league wont work and that more teams should be in there with relegation and promotion to keep things interesting.......th eladies game is meant to mirror the mens game, does this happen in English pro football?........

the current proposed format doesn't attract me and I cant see the gates getting any bigger or many more people watching games on tv........I wont be watching 'summer football thats for sure.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on January 26, 2010, 02:06:36 AM
Fold? it doesn't say that at all, the name Leeds Carnegie says it all....the club is attached to Leeds Met University.  At present the only league that exists is the FA Tesco Premier League (National, Northern & Southern).  The loss of 8 clubs from this set-up means that a new league will have to be created, once the 8 'elite' clubs move to the summer. Leeds, Blackburn will compete in this league alongside clubs like Preston, Reading, Manchester City etc.  

I'd heard a rumour that the Uni had pulled the rug :o
Might not be a surprise seeing that unis in general are getting reduced funding themselves.

Added: 

From Tony Leighton, BBC co.uk

Leeds Carnegie have stunned the women's football world by turning their back on the chance to join the Football Association's new Super League.

With seven players in the current England squad, Leeds were seen as one of the leading contenders for one of the eight places in the league.

But they have withdrawn their bid, a move that has left players distraught and that could possibly lead to the eventual folding of the club.

Leeds Metropolitan University, who took over the running of the club following its split from Leeds United two years ago, have cited financial reasons.

"The University cannot commit to the substantial increase in budgets proposed under plans for Super League," read its statement.

Original estimates of annual running costs for Super League clubs were around £140,000, with the FA supplying up to half the funding.

 We have another 15 clubs interested and the process goes on

FA spokesman Johann Alexander
But clubs have since been told that player salaries will be an additional costing and it is now though that annual budgets could run nearer to £250,000.

Leeds' decision has come as a blow to the FA though they are not short of bids for founder membership of the new league, which is set to start next year.

FA spokesman Johann Alexander said: "It's disappointing that Leeds have withdrawn their bid, but we have another 15 clubs interested and the process goes on."

While the bidding process goes on, Leeds Carnegie may not survive as a club beyond the current Premier League campaign.

Leeds Met spokesperson Helen Goodwin said: "A decision will be made in due course about the support of the club."

The players will meanwhile stay loyal, hopes manager Rick Passmoor, though it's likely that in the summer several will leave for clubs that join the Super League.

The withdrawal of the Super League bid has hit player morale at a crucial time, with Leeds set to meet Everton in the Premier League Cup final on 11 February.

But Passmoor said: "I've told the girls I want them to stick together for the rest of the season, win the League Cup and go out with a bang."

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on January 26, 2010, 02:11:39 AM
.....my opinion is that an 8 team 'super ' league wont work and that more teams should be in there with relegation and promotion to keep things interesting.......th eladies game is meant to mirror the mens game, does this happen in English pro football?........

the current proposed format doesn't attract me and I cant see the gates getting any bigger or many more people watching games on tv........I wont be watching 'summer football thats for sure.

It's only the 8 for 2 seasons, I believe.
And you can watch in the summer without needing burgers to warm you up ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on January 26, 2010, 06:29:03 AM
Added: 

From Tony Leighton, BBC co.uk

Leeds Carnegie have stunned the women's football world by turning their back on the chance to join the Football Association's new Super League.
Original estimates of annual running costs for Super League clubs were around £140,000, with the FA supplying up to half the funding.

 We have another 15 clubs interested and the process goes on

FA spokesman Johann Alexander
But clubs have since been told that player salaries will be an additional costing and it is now though that annual budgets could run nearer to £250,000.
Original estimates at 140 000 £ ??? well those who did that had everyone paid on the cheap or working unpaid ! 250 000 £ looks more sensible really and is still a lot of money for women's football.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on January 26, 2010, 07:24:05 PM
A bet you are completely wrong. You've been negative about this new league from the start.

What difference does it make how long I ahve been neg about it?  Plus everyhting that happens is just proving me right..

 :D I suggest you see your doctor... you seem to be suffering from selected vision.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on January 27, 2010, 02:30:41 AM
Vic Akers talked about the new league in a couple of Arsenal publications.

Source: Arsenal – The Official Arsenal Matchday Programme – 20th January 2010 – versus Bolton Wanderers – Barclays Premier League Match.

Twenty years ago could you have foreseen the changes, and the pace of those changes, that are occurring in the women’s game at the moment?

Vic: We have the new league coming around next year, but I’ve always said it’d move at this sort of pace – there aren’t the finances involved in women’s football to do things as quickly as in the men’s game.  It’s a different world, but the fact that we’ve moved as far as we have is really pleasing and to think that our club has always been so successful and respected in women’s football is a big plus for us.  Other clubs ask us for advice in terms of setting things up and we’re of course more than willing to help – I find that very pleasing.

Source: Arsenal – The Official Arsenal Magazine – February 2010

Vic: "There's a big job to do with Arsenal Ladies now at an absolutely crucial time for the sport as a whole.  We're looking at the new league starting next year and hope to be major players in that - the Club has given its support initially for the first two years so it means that, if we're allocated a place, we'll be up and running and it'll be up to us to establish ourselves in the top two or three at the very least.

"There's a new televsion deal with ESPN and that's a big area that we - and the league in general - will hopefully be able to exploit.  If we can get good football on there, with decent highlights packages and the like, things could look very promising.

"It'll be interesting to see what turnouts we get in our new league.  It will need good advertising, but it is a summer league and hopefully that'll encourage a family kind of audience.  We'll continue to play at Boreham Wood FC, I expect - there are a few things to iron out scheduling-wise but we're in negotiations about that at the moment."

So, of all the players Vic managed during his time directly in charge of first-team affairs with Arsenal Ladies - including scores of Internationals - who stood out the most?

"The most outstanding fpr me was Kelly Smith, for sure.  But there are others who will progress rapidly.  Kim Little, who is here now, is only young but has a massive career ahead of her and is a wonderful player - one of the most talented I have seen in my time involved with women's football.  I'd say she is starting out at a good time, too - financially there may be something there for these girls in the next five years or so that perhaps wasn't available from the beginning for those of Kelly's generation."

And if that's the case, Kim and her peers will doubtless acknowledge the impact of Vic Akers OBE, both in developing some of this island's finest female footballers and in being a true driving force for the sprt's progression over a period spanning more than two decades.
Title: Bristol Academy presents its Super League bid to the FA
Post by: wsldreamteam on January 27, 2010, 01:45:32 PM


BAWFC President, Kevin Hamblin and Vice-Chair, Simon Panes presented the bid to a panel of FA members on Monday as part of the Womens Superleague process.

 

In March 2011, eight teams will compete in a new semi-professional Womens League which will be televised and promoted throughout the summer on ESPN. Sixteen teams submitted bids against strict criteria covering Finance and Business; Commercial and Marketing; Facilities; and Players and Staff.

 

Teams that submitted a bid were invited to present their bid to a panel which included legal, commercial and football specialists, chaired by Michael Game (FA Board Director).

 

Kevin Hamblin said "We have put in a very strong bid which has been supported by the Gloucestershire FA, South Gloucestershire and Bristol City Councils, both Bristol City and Bristol Rovers, local School Sport Partnerships and local girls football clubs - the support has been fantastic and I would like to thank everyone who has got behind the bid. I know we could not have prepared a stronger case and we will now have to wait until the end of March this year to know if we have won a place in the Super League.

 

Simon Panes added "Our bid was received well by the FA Panel who commented on the strength of our commercial and marketing plan and the Club’s long term player development pathway however I would expect that many of the submissions would be of equally high standards. To just be in this process represents a huge milestone for the Club. In 2001, we had just eight girls in our Football Development Centre. In three weeks time, we will undertake a £500k investment to create the UK's first football stadium built specifically for Girls and Womens football; next to £5m of sports facilities; with a team competing in the FA Premier League; with the best college-based girl's side; and one of the best FA Girls Centres of Excellence in the Country! I would like to think that the FA will recognise this commitment to the Womens game and reward all those players, parents, volunteers, supporters and coaches who have contributed to this journey over the last eight years."
 

Successful teams will be notified by the end of March, 2010 with the Super League kicking off in March 2011.

http://bristolacademywfc.co.uk/bristol-academy-presents-its-super-league-bid-to-the-fa
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: YEP Digital on January 27, 2010, 01:50:10 PM
Sue Smith admits Leeds Carnegie Ladies' crest-fallen players are devastated at the shock decision not to apply for the new FA Super League – amid fears the club could fold in the future.


Click on the link for more details: http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/Super-shock-rocks-Leeds-Carnegie.6016537.jp (http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/Super-shock-rocks-Leeds-Carnegie.6016537.jp)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: samtom on January 27, 2010, 02:30:56 PM
Why would the Fa put so much money into Womens Super League when the likes of Arsenal have around a dozen non english players.I thought the whole idea was to develop quality players who could help England Womens team to win a major competition.Will the Fa tell the clubs which players go in each team.Will there be a Draft like the US.Ideally from the Fa's point of view every player involved in the England setup from u17's to the Seniors would be registered to play in the Superleague.Just using Arsenal as an example as they have signed a lot of quality but non English  players.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on January 27, 2010, 02:56:38 PM
Quote from: samtom
Will the Fa tell the clubs which players go in each team ?

No, thank god for that.
Quote from: samtom
Will there be a Draft like the US. Ideally from the Fa's point of view every player involved in the England setup from u17's to the Seniors would be registered to play in the Superleague. Just using Arsenal as an example as they have signed a lot of quality but non English  players.
No, there is no one to draft really. WPS team draft college players mainly and a few international ones.
With work permit restriction for UK, not many foreign players would be eligible to come and probably would go the WPS anyway.

Why would the Fa put so much money into Womens Super League when the likes of Arsenal have around a dozen non english players.I thought the whole idea was to develop quality players who could help England Womens team to win a major competition.
I think the FA wants to develop a very good brand as well as developping players for the England team.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on January 27, 2010, 03:16:20 PM
What I'd like to know is this:

How much money do the teams in the WPL National, North & South leagues receive from the sponsorship deal with Tesco?

How much money will Everton LFC & Leeds Carnegie LFC receive from the gate receipts from the League Cup Final.  3,000+ gate expected?

How much money will the FA Cup Finalists receive from a 20,000+ crowd at Pride Park / City Ground?

They should be receiving at least 40% (+ prize money) each from these showpiece events, but it is likely that most of the money will go into the coffers at the FA.

Are the FA the right people to run a league competition when the last one's to benefit from finance is the clubs themselves?  If you have no clubs...you have no players therefore no England team.

I'm sure many W-League clubs will be more than happy to take players over to the USA next summer.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on January 27, 2010, 07:55:18 PM
I don't know the answer to all your questions, but what has been posted before on here:

I believe the Tesco deal is only 'payment in kind', so that's a sophisticated way of saying nothing.  ;)

Remember also that to attend the Cup Final only costs £1 via the group booking, I believe, so you're not talking vast sums of money. The 20,000+ crowds are therefore a little misleading in terms of revenue.

Yes, the England team wouldn't exist without the clubs, but the England team, and its potential success also has the ability to raise awareness, and I'm sure many people first experience women's football at international level and those people might decide to go and watch a club team. So things work both ways really.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on January 27, 2010, 09:51:48 PM
Jen O'Neill's comment on the She kicks blog...

Comment by Jen O'Neill
Posted 26th January 2010 at 17:34pm
It's disgraceful that people like Mel and other resourceful people committed to the long term interest of the club, were not given sufficient warning of the university's plans. This has echoes of Charlton Athletic, Birmingham City (fortunately saved by a benevolent business man/parent), Southampton, Sunderland...the list goes on. It's understandable - albeit still galling - when a body decides that they best tighten their belts and spend their pennies elsewhere but what is inexcusable is not giving the women's clubs enough forewarning. It adds to the anger and uspet and makes their future much more uncertain. It feels like the decision was more than uncaring and insensitive and bordering on vindictive. Yet it's harder to feel as much anger to a university as it is to a football club, an institution in which we generally have (and other supporters have) and emotional investment. There are inevitably people who will flag this up as an example that the Super League - especially in these financially delicate times - is likely to falter. Others will point out that neighbouring clubs could positively benefit. The immediate reaction for me is that I feel extra goodwill towards the girls - who have a great team spirit - to prove a point to themselves, each other and the coaching staff and give Arsenal a tough game on Sunday and also to look ahead to the FAWPL Cup Final with extra determination
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Chicken Bhuna on January 28, 2010, 12:17:07 PM
Im a supporter of one of the premere league clubs. Spoke to someone involved with the club recently and they said that a letter had been sent round telling them that there vote to keep the national div, northern div, southern div structure has been overuled by the FA. Looks like FA are going to break the prem up into just northern and southern or northern midlands and southern when superleague comes in with no top div in winter. Just 3 equal divs in winter so the superleague can be the top div. What do you think about this????
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on January 28, 2010, 01:20:10 PM
I'm a supporter of one of the premier league clubs. Spoke to someone involved with the club recently and they said that a letter had been sent round telling them that there vote to keep the national div, northern div, southern div structure has been overuled by the FA. Looks like FA are going to break the prem up into just northern and southern or northern midlands and southern when superleague comes in with no top div in winter. Just 3 equal divs in winter so the superleague can be the top div. What do you think about this????
Maybe the FA would not have enough team to keep the 12 in national Division  and 12 in Northern Division  and 12 in Southern Division. 36-8=28, you can do multiple options like 10-9-9, 12-8-8, 8-10-10 etc or even promote 8 teams from the combination lol.
It looks like they are trying to find an acceptable compromise, and by doing North and South that would also reduce travelling cost with more games to be played if they split 14-14. ???
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on January 28, 2010, 01:22:40 PM
I'm a supporter of one of the premier league clubs. Spoke to someone involved with the club recently and they said that a letter had been sent round telling them that there vote to keep the national div, northern div, southern div structure has been overuled by the FA. Looks like FA are going to break the prem up into just northern and southern or northern midlands and southern when superleague comes in with no top div in winter. Just 3 equal divs in winter so the superleague can be the top div. What do you think about this????
Maybe the FA would not have enough team to keep the 12 in national Division  and 12 in Northern Division  and 12 in Southern Division. 36-8=28, you can do multiple options like 10-9-9, 12-8-8, 8-10-10 etc or even promote 8 teams from the combination lol.
It looks like they are trying to find an acceptable compromise, and by doing North and South that would also reduce travelling cost with more games to be played if they split 14-14. ???

Drival....rather than promote the game they seem to be trying to make it more obscure...Are teams going to struggle more to find sponsership playing in something called northern midlands divison?  I rather think they might...And off course no promotion or relegation so the game would start to stagnate, would it not...

Sue Smith admits Leeds Carnegie Ladies' crest-fallen players are devastated at the shock decision not to apply for the new FA Super League – amid fears the club could fold in the future.

And to think she was such an advocate of summer football, dare say she's not so keen now...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Chicken Bhuna on January 28, 2010, 02:31:38 PM
I'm a supporter of one of the premier league clubs. Spoke to someone involved with the club recently and they said that a letter had been sent round telling them that there vote to keep the national div, northern div, southern div structure has been overuled by the FA. Looks like FA are going to break the prem up into just northern and southern or northern midlands and southern when superleague comes in with no top div in winter. Just 3 equal divs in winter so the superleague can be the top div. What do you think about this????
Maybe the FA would not have enough team to keep the 12 in national Division  and 12 in Northern Division  and 12 in Southern Division. 36-8=28, you can do multiple options like 10-9-9, 12-8-8, 8-10-10 etc or even promote 8 teams from the combination lol.
It looks like they are trying to find an acceptable compromise, and by doing North and South that would also reduce travelling cost with more games to be played if they split 14-14. ???

I dunno. I rekon they still goin to have relegation but no promotion. you could make it so you had 10 teams in nat and 10 in north and south . If you needed to promote a cuple from combination leagues to make up the numbers you could have 30 in the prem, still have  a top league in winter giving lower clubs somthing to aim for. If they go for 3 equal divs then the prem will be devalued imho
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Chicken Bhuna on January 28, 2010, 02:32:55 PM
I'm a supporter of one of the premier league clubs. Spoke to someone involved with the club recently and they said that a letter had been sent round telling them that there vote to keep the national div, northern div, southern div structure has been overuled by the FA. Looks like FA are going to break the prem up into just northern and southern or northern midlands and southern when superleague comes in with no top div in winter. Just 3 equal divs in winter so the superleague can be the top div. What do you think about this????
Maybe the FA would not have enough team to keep the 12 in national Division  and 12 in Northern Division  and 12 in Southern Division. 36-8=28, you can do multiple options like 10-9-9, 12-8-8, 8-10-10 etc or even promote 8 teams from the combination lol.
It looks like they are trying to find an acceptable compromise, and by doing North and South that would also reduce travelling cost with more games to be played if they split 14-14. ???

Drival....rather than promote the game they seem to be trying to make it more obscure...Are teams going to struggle more to find sponsership playing in something called northern midlands divison?  I rather think they might...And off course no promotion or relegation so the game would start to stagnate, would it not...

Sue Smith admits Leeds Carnegie Ladies' crest-fallen players are devastated at the shock decision not to apply for the new FA Super League – amid fears the club could fold in the future.

And to think she was such an advocate of summer football, dare say she's not so keen now...

Sue smith will just join another club in superleague if she wants to
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on January 28, 2010, 02:51:28 PM
I dunno. I rekon they still goin to have relegation but no promotion. you could make it so you had 10 teams in nat and 10 in north and south . If you needed to promote a cuple from combination leagues to make up the numbers you could have 30 in the prem, still have  a top league in winter giving lower clubs somthing to aim for. If they go for 3 equal divs then the prem will be devalued imho
I think you have a good point, 10 in national and 10 in Northern and Southern would keep the same structure. If they do 3 divisions they would need to do some kind of play - off to determine the champions like 3 winners + the best runner up of the 3. That would be so strange lol
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Chicken Bhuna on January 28, 2010, 03:04:45 PM
Rekon ur right, specialy as theres no promotion to superleague. nowhere for lower clubs to aim for if they want to be top of prem one day. whats that all bout ???
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: John on January 28, 2010, 05:12:51 PM
Rekon ur right, specialy as theres no promotion to superleague. nowhere for lower clubs to aim for if they want to be top of prem one day. whats that all bout ???

There will be promotion in the future.  I find it strange that people don't read the documents on the FA website about the super league plans.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Chicken Bhuna on January 28, 2010, 05:49:20 PM
Rekon ur right, specialy as theres no promotion to superleague. nowhere for lower clubs to aim for if they want to be top of prem one day. whats that all bout ???

There will be promotion in the future.  I find it strange that people don't read the documents on the FA website about the super league plans.

ok so what happens in the meantime, if there are 3 divs all the same in the prem with no top winter div? what is there to aim for in those divs, whats the point of winning them?? and what is the point of combination teams getting promotion in the next 2 or 3 years. You mite as well not have a prem league, just the combiations as theres no pinical to aim for, not 1 u can get to in the next 2 or 3 years anyways. whats wrong with having a nat div??
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on January 28, 2010, 08:56:48 PM
What I see happening come the summer is a massive 'rush for gold' - all the England players (from U17 upwards) rushing to join one of the 8 Super League clubs.  Players from Leeds, Blackburn and possibly Watford are no doubt considering changing clubs in-time for the 1st Super League season.  If Leicester City (for example) were to get a place instead of Birmingham would they be recruiting experienced National League players or sticking with what they already have? 

I see a major upheavel this summer with alot of players trying to join clubs in the Super League.  England players will all be encouraged to join one of the 8 Super League clubs to secure there International status. This Super League will have a massive impact on all clubs within the current WPL Premier League structure.  If a club isn't in the Super League will it keep it's better players, probably not. 

I can see the W-League and the US College set up being a massive temptation for players not involved in Super League.  There simply isn't enough clubs for the amount of players that won't to play in the Super League.  The number of non-english players at Arsenal means the pool of players is likely to be spread amongest 7 clubs rather than the current 12.

I can't see the excellent squad of young players at Sunderland staying in it's current state when players from Leeds and Blackburn Rovers have literally been placed on the 'Super League' transfer market. Sunderland will no doubt pick up a couple of players from Leeds for next season (if they were to get a place in Super League that is).  The same applies if a North or South team gets a Super League place at the expense of a current National League team - if Liverpool were to get a place instead of Doncaster Belles, would there be a mass exodus of players?  Liverpool will no doubt be swamped by players wanting to join a Super League club.

The Super League 'transfer market' has already started to move and I can't see any of our clubs not being involved in the player 'merry-go-round'.  Any player with any ambition will want to be playing in the Super League and get paid as a Professional Footballer.

Clubs outside the Super League structure will get left behind because no one will go and watch as the league(s) will be re-garded as second rate and will receive no financial investment or marketing from the FA.  Clubs with ambition like Lincoln, Millwall and Blackburn want happen, they'll just become feeder clubs, as there better players get cherry-picked by the Super League clubs.

The Super League will become the only competative league and the rest will just be 'social football' with no one watching.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Chicken Bhuna on January 28, 2010, 09:33:38 PM
I think these clubs will get in the superleague. done it from south to north. dont think NE will have one, to far. think london will have 2. think everton will get in not pool. think mids and yorks will be strong. bristol tofar away


Arsenal

Chelsea or Millwall

Birmingham

Leicester 

Nottingham Forest  :)

Lincoln City

Doncaster Rovers Belles

Everton
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on January 28, 2010, 10:10:53 PM
Any player with any ambition will want to be playing in the Super League and get paid as a Professional Footballer.

Sounds like a good league, and what a great incentive for players to join. Regardless of the league they are in.  :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: pat51 on January 28, 2010, 11:02:55 PM
I think these clubs will get in the superleague. done it from south to north. dont think NE will have one, to far. think london will have 2. think everton will get in not pool. think mids and yorks will be strong. bristol tofar away


Arsenal

Chelsea or Millwall

Birmingham

Leicester 

Nottingham Forest  :)

Lincoln City

Doncaster Rovers Belles

Everton
Not 'too far away' from people in the South/South West of England !...there are fans down this way as well.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Chicken Bhuna on January 28, 2010, 11:56:05 PM
yea but I think fa mite think about travel between clubs with maybe lots of evening matches midweek. thats why I think NE will be out, maybe bristol will have a chance as they seem to have strong bid. goodluck
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on January 29, 2010, 02:42:10 PM
I think these clubs will get in the superleague. done it from south to north. dont think NE will have one, to far.

The North East look certain to have a team in the new league
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Chicken Bhuna on January 29, 2010, 03:52:03 PM
which 1 do u think - Ncstl or Sund?? that will be a long way for london clubs 2 go 4 nite matchs
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Aphrodites Child on January 29, 2010, 04:10:30 PM
The one thing which we do not know is the strength of all the clubs' applications.

I am sure all the clubs submitted bids which they felt ticked all the right boxes

I feel a statement from the FA of re-affirmation that the Super League will definitely go ahead would not have gone amiss following the withdrawl of the Leeds Carnegie application - given that Leeds would surely have been among the clubs one would have tipped to be in the Super League 8
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on January 29, 2010, 05:02:21 PM
which 1 do u think - Ncstl or Sund?? that will be a long way for london clubs 2 go 4 nite matchs
An hour and half by flight, 4 hours by train and about 7 hours by coach.
As the players will be semi-pro, leaving at 1000  for a 1900 game for example and come back the next
day wouldn't be a problem. Overnight stay would be in the budget IMO.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on January 29, 2010, 06:10:38 PM
The one thing which we do not know is the strength of all the clubs' applications.

I am sure all the clubs submitted bids which they felt ticked all the right boxes

I feel a statement from the FA of re-affirmation that the Super League will definitely go ahead would not have gone amiss following the withdrawl of the Leeds Carnegie application - given that Leeds would surely have been among the clubs one would have tipped to be in the Super League 8


I don’t see any need to release a statement as the bid was withdrawn due to the lack of funding provided to Leeds by the university. It is an issue between the Uni and the club.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on January 29, 2010, 06:33:21 PM
which 1 do u think - Ncstl or Sund?? that will be a long way for london clubs 2 go 4 nite matchs

An hour and half by flight, 4 hours by train and about 7 hours by coach.
As the players will be semi-pro, leaving at 1000  for a 1900 game for example and come back the next
day wouldn't be a problem. Overnight stay would be in the budget IMO.

It is pretty much irrelevant, they would never dream of denying a club on the basis of distance between them and the other successful clubs.  They will obviously be looking for the clubs to be spread throughout the country to give as many people the chance of watching women's football in the flesh.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on January 29, 2010, 06:51:12 PM
I don’t see any need to release a statement as the bid was withdrawn due to the lack of funding provided to Leeds by the university. It is an issue between the Uni and the club.
http://www.leedscarnegieladies.com/2010/super-league.html
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on January 29, 2010, 07:02:09 PM
I don’t see any need to release a statement as the bid was withdrawn due to the lack of funding provided to Leeds by the university. It is an issue between the Uni and the club.
http://www.leedscarnegieladies.com/2010/super-league.html

Leeds Metropolitan University should have read the application pack and then they'd have been fully aware of all the costs involved.  If costs were a big issue, why didn't they ring the hotline number prior to handing in the application? That way they would have been fully aware of the finanical situation.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on January 29, 2010, 07:13:40 PM
The (increased) costs were reported in the Guardian one week, and then in another later week's article a Leeds spokesman stated that they thought they had a good chance of getting a franchise.

I don't really understand why they put their bid in, because the information on costs seemed to be available, and Sue Smith mentions it in her blog on the Yorkshire Evening Post.

1st Nov Article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/nov/01/womens-super-league-launch-fa

15th Nov Article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/nov/15/leeds-carnegie-super-league-netball
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: treble99 on January 29, 2010, 07:29:13 PM
I don’t see any need to release a statement as the bid was withdrawn due to the lack of funding provided to Leeds by the university. It is an issue between the Uni and the club.
http://www.leedscarnegieladies.com/2010/super-league.html

Leeds Metropolitan University should have read the application pack and then they'd have been fully aware of all the costs involved.  If costs were a big issue, why didn't they ring the hotline number prior to handing in the application? That way they would have been fully aware of the finanical situation.

Peter Risdale wasn't in charge of the application was he??
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on January 29, 2010, 07:46:20 PM
The (increased) costs were reported in the Guardian one week, and then in another later week's article a Leeds spokesman stated that they thought they had a good chance of getting a franchise.

I don't really understand why they put their bid in, because the information on costs seemed to be available, and Sue Smith mentions it in her blog on the Yorkshire Evening Post.

1st Nov Article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/nov/01/womens-super-league-launch-fa

15th Nov Article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/nov/15/leeds-carnegie-super-league-netball

And that is why it is not for the FA to come out and make any statement.  They simply did not have a bid that ticked all the boxes.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on January 29, 2010, 08:18:35 PM
Absolutely, it's an issue for Leeds.

Incidentally, an FA spokesman did give the following statement as part of the BBC's coverage:

FA spokesman Johann Alexander said: "It's disappointing that Leeds have withdrawn their bid, but we have another 15 clubs interested and the process goes on."

Which is what I would expect really.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on January 29, 2010, 09:50:40 PM
Absolutely, it's an issue for Leeds.

Incidentally, an FA spokesman did give the following statement as part of the BBC's coverage:

FA spokesman Johann Alexander said: "It's disappointing that Leeds have withdrawn their bid, but we have another 15 clubs interested and the process goes on."

Which is what I would expect really.

Precisely. If they suddenly changed the criteria because one team had to consider dropping its application, for whatever reason, we'd think there was some funny business going on ;)

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on January 29, 2010, 11:19:12 PM
I do think that Leeds omission is going to cause major problems.  If one of Sunderland or Doncaster miss out, then you are going to have around 25+ England internationals (from U17 upwards) with no Super League club to play for.

Leeds have - Carly Telford, Sue Smith, Laura Bassett, Jade Moore, Jessica Clarke, Carla Cantrell, Ellen White, Sophie Walton etc etc all International players currently available for 'transfer'.

If Sunderland don't get it (as has been suggested) then you can add to this list:

Jordan Nobbs, Helen Alderton, Lucy Staniforth, Kelly McDougall , Demi Stokes etc -

all International players - wanting to play in the Super League. 

Also, add the Blackburn Rovers and Watford  players into the mix and you have over 4  teams worth of Super League standard players without a club in the Super League.

That leaves only Everton and Doncaster Belles as potential clubs in the North of England - where are all these players going to play?

Everton may take 3 or 4 additional players, as will Doncaster Belles - thus causing some of the players at these clubs to be surplus.

Will Arsenal being willing to dispense with the Scots, Irish and Welsh players to make room for the 'unemployed' English? - No. 

That leaves only 7 clubs spread around the country for these players to 'work' for.

 I'm not sure Hope Powell and her coaches would want a considerable number of her young players having to play in the rumoured Northern / Southern Leagues in the Winter.  The whole idea of the Super League was to raise the standard?

Carly Telford and Danielle Hill are 2 International class goalkeepers with no Super League club to play for next season?

If Lincoln don't get in, are Kaye Hawke, Amanda Barr and Jodie Micheleska going to want to spend another 2 season's hoping they get the 'licence' next time roun?

Is Emma Byrne willing to make way for Carly Telford?  No... then is she going to sign for Doncaster? forcing out there current number 1. 

The question, I'm sure lots of players will be asking is?  Does a Super League club want me next year?   Should I consider going to USA?

A scholarship to a US University has suddenly become a very attractive option.


 Not heard of any tears or anger from the Blackburn players, but no doubt they are as disappointed as the Leeds players are. 

We'll hear of more disappointed and angry players when the 15 clubs is cut down to 8. 

Every player in the WPL is suddenly thinking about there future. Good job, female players don't have agents...... maybe they should.

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on January 30, 2010, 12:26:56 AM
Quite true with a squad restricted to 20 players, it means only 160 players will be in the Superleague.
So far this season 282 players have been used by the 12 sides. It does looks like Superleague teams will have to get rid off some of their current players to take those internationals in.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on January 30, 2010, 01:37:56 AM
Quite true with a squad restricted to 20 players, it means only 160 players will be in the Superleague.
So far this season 282 players have been used by the 12 sides. It does looks like Superleague teams will have to get rid off some of their current players to take those internationals in.


I suppose you mean that 282 have been used in the current top flight.
But not all of those teams will be in the new league.

And anyway, a lot of those players will have only played a game ot two on trial etc.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Billy Hunt on January 30, 2010, 02:40:24 AM
Sylvain you have hit the nail on the head.. perhaps unwittingly.. if Lincoln get the nod? how many of their current squad will be involved? When there are surplus England Internationals floating around without clubs.. The players who are of England International quality (England International opinion) will not want for a club to play for in the Super League irrespective of whether their current club gets the nod or not.. The only fall guys I foresee are the players who have played year in and year out or sat on the bench for under achieving teams or even moderately achieving teams.. normally because its their local team.. but money talks and if we want this to work then so be it money widens the scope..
Laura Bassett, Jess Clarke, Sophie Bradley- Leeds.. Leeds not involved! Do you honestly think that they will not play in the super league somewhere..? (the feelers will be out already).
Have I made my point? Hope so!
In my opinion the best players will not miss out on the super league (if they want it and not the USA route).
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on January 30, 2010, 01:41:52 PM
I personally think that along with Leeds, the current Blackburn Rovers squad will be decimated and this will be the last season at the club for the majority of the 1st team.

 I don't think the likes of Danielle Hill, Amy Kane, Katie Anderton, Natalie Preston, Lynda Shepherd and Kate Ward etc will be short of offers from Super League clubs, especially if it's from a club in the North West. I can't see any player turning down offers from Super League clubs if they get the opportunity.

I just hope that the current team can end it's final season in the top flight outside the bottom two. A run to the FA Cup final wouldn't go a miss either. I just hope that the team can pull together (as the manager wants) and the season doesn't drift.  Starting tomorrow with a victory over Lincoln City.

I expect a very young Blackburn Rovers team to take it's place in the winter league, with a few 'redundant' players joining from the Super League. 

The FA and it's run to 'Professionalism' has already ripped the heart out of 2 clubs...with a few more to follow.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on January 30, 2010, 02:22:32 PM
Collateral damages for the FA ? I mean they create a super elite League and expect the best English players to play for the "best teams ". You can definitely expect a lot of movement as soon as the winning 8 are confirmed ( if the transfer window is still open otherwise, it will all kick off in June).
It might be more interesting than men's football,
I should sign up as a football agent. ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on January 30, 2010, 05:27:43 PM
I've already thought of that, we should go into business Syl.  One other thing, if any players aren't members of the PFA....then perhaps they need to consider joining, once they start getting paid then they'll need the protection of a union.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: treble99 on January 30, 2010, 11:58:34 PM
I've already thought of that, we should go into business Syl.  One other thing, if any players aren't members of the PFA....then perhaps they need to consider joining, once they start getting paid then they'll need the protection of a union.

Is the super-league not on a semi-pro standing?? think the PFA only advise NOT represent semi-pro ballers, if it's a serious case The Arbitration of Sport may get involved.
So I was lead to believe??
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on January 31, 2010, 12:16:26 PM
In reply to Billy's post - I might be able to shed some light.

If Lincoln is accepted into the Super League the club is in a position to look after all of its current players, and it's youth.

There will of course be some players who would want to leave us, but for those who want to stay, they will be able to, and all will have the opportunity through various pathways to play for our club in the Super League. We will of course take in some England international and youth international from other clubs which are not successful into the 1st team squad, that is what it is all about. It may be that our contracts are lucritave enough that we attract some of the very best even if their original clubs are successful.

HOWEVER: Some of our current players will be involved in the first team squad - I will of course not be naming names, but we have some that will crack it in the top div, especially playing alongside seasoned internationals. Others will be able to gain a place in our reserve squad which will feed directly into the 1st team, with a chance for each and every one of those players to gain a place on merit into the first team, so play in the elite league. This will offer a pathway for our players into the elite league through our club, which must be a very tempting if they think they are good enough.

Come on fellow anoraks - you've missed a trick. You might just have noticed that we have a fantastic youth development squad playing in the Women's Regional East Midlands - Division 1 North. This is only 2 divs below the Combination leagues. A plan is to use this primarilly as a pathway for our current youth/development and more fringe players that want to be involved with the club to find their way into the reserves, which of course in turn acts as a pathway to the elite league. If we gain entry to the Super League I would expect the EM1 side to gain promotion to the Combination league quickly! From there who knows, but I'm sure you take my point regarding opportunity now.

So, all current players that want to stay and our youth will be serviced, and have equal opportunity to gain a place with our club in the Super League. There will of course be those that will wish to leave, but all will have the chance to stay and play in the top league.

Strangely, little will change with our club should we get in the Super League, as this is basically the way we've always carried on, it's just that we will of course have a lot more interest from the best players in the land. Just like we would have done if we'd got into the National Division, which has always been a goal of the club and of course our players! Our club runs on a firm foundation  of meritocracy, which I believe all our players both respect and enjoy!
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on January 31, 2010, 12:41:38 PM
Sorry but what?  Back in the real world.... Why would a lincoln player used to first team football be happy playing in the reserves... Its a nice story.. they have a chance.. But in reality they will have been snubbed by the club they helped get into the superleague for players brought in from clubs who didn't make it in..

You coming to blackburn next Sunday Geoff?  we wil have a brew together :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on January 31, 2010, 12:56:19 PM
Yeah, I'll be there Mr. K. Coffee x 1 sug please :)

However - I take issue with you on your point - we have players who have been with us since playing in the lower leagues. As we've progressed so have they. Often they've had their place taken up by another player we bring in only to prove themselves from the reserves or the bench again and again and remain and bounce back into the 1st team. And of course they've become far better players for it - these are the one's who progress and get the best out of themselves! I don't expect that to change. Our players are used to it, respect it, do not feel their noses put out but simply respond to the challenge and bounce back into the 1st team. It's happened time and time again so, really, I'm not stringing a story together and using a bunch of cliches, it's for real. Dont forget to get the Northern Division we played 7 seasons with only 1 being without promotion - I'm sure you see my point. That's what we encourage, and that really is the way it works with our club. A shining example of this I think is Stacey. My mantra is I Don't Do Squad - however I would expect Stacey to be fighting for her place in the elite league, as she has always done throughout our journey through the divs, and she has upped her game every time and somehow I think she's going to do it again - and what about Megan, another shining example of this and a player I would expect to take the next step up just as she has always done throughout her career with the club, through all the lower and middle leagues, bouncing back every time to be an integral part of the 1st team no matter who we bring in - but of course this is all speculation, just to make my point. There are others in the squad, they know who they are, and I would expect the same of each of them! It'll be tough, becuase there are some big name players showing an interest in us now, but it's there for them if they're good enough. I think my biggest point is that if a player wants to stay with our club, there is a place for her and it WILL provide a pathway to the elite league if she is GOOD ENOUGH- after that it's up to them! It's the way we've always worked...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on January 31, 2010, 01:06:32 PM
But hey, we've got to get selected yet eh  ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on January 31, 2010, 03:39:22 PM
Too true, Kipax...too few clubs too many players.... The Super League clubs are for England players only.  No room for stalwarts at clubs any more.  I feel sorry for those players discarded - considered not good enough to be professional.  A move to summer football in the W-League will be a good option for some players.  Would a quality player like Michelle Evans prefer to sit on the bench at Everton or play a full season in Canada?  I'm sure that her Canadian club would want her back this summer and next.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on January 31, 2010, 04:02:33 PM
Oh, I don't know, I think out of 8 squads totalling 160 players altogether I think there might be room for the odd stalwart here and there... And that sort of thing will build with time too, when promotion/relegation kicks in. It is a downsizing though, no doubt about it, so there will be a squeeze, that cannot be argued!
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on January 31, 2010, 04:13:39 PM
8 clubs? you can cut that down to 7 or 6....Arsenal will not be making any drastic changes to there squad and Everton probably won't either...assuming that these 2 clubs are virtually going to be guaranteed a licence.  120 players spread amongest 6 clubs - lots of quality players forced to play in the winter league due to not enough clubs.  Players are currently considering there future and worried about whether they'll be offered a place at a Super League club.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on January 31, 2010, 04:58:46 PM
Yes, you're right, but you have to consider that 2 clubs from the National Division go down every season anyway. That's two full squads of players going out of the top league as a natural occurance. There is a squeeze, no doubt about that, but it may not be quite as drastic as it might seem. Also, there's nothing to stop players moving in and out of Arsenal and Everton, there's nothing written in blood about that! Maybe the squads will stay the same, maybe they won't, but I for one am not making any assumptions whatsoever about that. How can I, I don't know their business. For me, it's like President Obama did with the Russians - he pressed the restart button  :) So, for me, I stick with 8 clubs, not 6 or even 7...

Yes, some players will choose or have no choice but to play in the Winter league, but I don't think all this is going to be Earth shattering. And it will start to regain balance in a couple of years when promotion relegation kicks back in.

Isn't there a proposed cap on the number of Foreign players per Super League club squad - at this point in time I can't remember? Just chewing the cud :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Billy Hunt on January 31, 2010, 07:54:06 PM
Yeah, I'll be there Mr. K. Coffee x 1 sug please :)

However - I take issue with you on your point - we have players who have been with us since playing in the lower leagues. As we've progressed so have they. Often they've had their place taken up by another player we bring in only to prove themselves from the reserves or the bench again and again and remain and bounce back into the 1st team. And of course they've become far better players for it - these are the one's who progress and get the best out of themselves! I don't expect that to change. Our players are used to it, respect it, do not feel their noses put out but simply respond to the challenge and bounce back into the 1st team. It's happened time and time again so, really, I'm not stringing a story together and using a bunch of cliches, it's for real. Dont forget to get the Northern Division we played 7 seasons with only 1 being without promotion - I'm sure you see my point. That's what we encourage, and that really is the way it works with our club. A shining example of this I think is Stacey. My mantra is I Don't Do Squad - however I would expect Stacey to be fighting for her place in the elite league, as she has always done throughout our journey through the divs, and she has upped her game every time and somehow I think she's going to do it again - and what about Megan, another shining example of this and a player I would expect to take the next step up just as she has always done throughout her career with the club, through all the lower and middle leagues, bouncing back every time to be an integral part of the 1st team no matter who we bring in - but of course this is all speculation, just to make my point. There are others in the squad, they know who they are, and I would expect the same of each of them! It'll be tough, becuase there are some big name players showing an interest in us now, but it's there for them if they're good enough. I think my biggest point is that if a player wants to stay with our club, there is a place for her and it WILL provide a pathway to the elite league if she is GOOD ENOUGH- after that it's up to them! It's the way we've always worked...
So much for not naming names??????? there are two in this post... I hope Rod agrees with you or does the tail wag the dog? Stacey and Megan if Lincoln are afforded a place in the super league then you are safe...... Geoff says!!!
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: samtom on January 31, 2010, 08:45:51 PM
think arsenal,chelsea,doncaster belles and everton are the only certs for superleague.rest is a lottery.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on January 31, 2010, 08:59:25 PM
Billy, you misrepresent me - I mention only two names with regard to what has been achieved in the past with a passing note that I HOPE it will happen for them in the future. You know, the sort of nice thing you tend to do. Those that are being eyed up by staff for possible inclusion in a Super League Squad, should the club be selected, remain private! But that's more than enough of that!

No one's place is "safe", not even in this season's squad let alone one in the Super League. And certainly not on my sayso!

I don't wag Rod and he doesn't wag me - well maybe when we go out for a beer, but that's all ;)

Read through the post carefully, then read it again, then reconsider your remarks - because they make you look ridiculous - if not bitter! How strange, seeing as you probably don't even know me! If you did then I doubt you would have passed the remark in the first place ::)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on January 31, 2010, 09:46:15 PM
For me I'd scrap the whole concept..Move the current 3 tier system to the summer.  Promotion and relegation to the top flight should be on merit not on financial considerations. If the FA want professional women players in this country, then they should foot the bill, by awarding full-time central contracts to the England Senior team and part-time Central Contracts (with University Scholarships) to the U19 / U23 players.  The financial weight should be on the FA, not the women's clubs. 

Sunderland got promoted last season on merit and are currently flying high in the National League - it would be a great shame if this group of extremely talented (amateur) players are denied there rightful place in the top flight, simply because Sunderland WFC  isn't rich enough.

 Leeds United LFC struggled to find £50,000 a year to keep the club afloat a couple of years ago (until Carnegie stepped in).  Asking clubs to find £250,000 a year is simply a disaster waiting to happen.  It seems that Blackburn Rovers weren't willing to risk the long-term future of the women's club, but they are likely to lose a considerable number of the 1st team squad in the summer.  T

  What happens when a financial backer pulls out mid-season? This happened when Leigh Genesis FC (of the Unibond League) had their major sponsor pull his money out - this means the club will lose the use of the LSV stadium and are likely to fold at the end of the season.  The same thing could happen to more women's clubs...we seen it before.

 A  top club like Charlton suddenly goes from FA Cup finalist to struggling in the Southern League.  They lost there best players when the money disappeared - Casey. Dowie, Holtham, Aluko, Potter etc.

The Super League won't stop the Americans poaching our top talent, players will always be tempted by the life style they offer. They are 10 years ahead of the English game.  If the crowds flock to summer football then great, but I don't see Everton getting 2,000 a game every other week - more like 400 - 500 a week.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Billy Hunt on January 31, 2010, 11:54:01 PM
Billy, you misrepresent me - I mention only two names with regard to what has been achieved in the past with a passing note that I HOPE it will happen for them in the future. You know, the sort of nice thing you tend to do. Those that are being eyed up by staff for possible inclusion in a Super League Squad, should the club be selected, remain private! But that's more than enough of that!

No one's place is "safe", not even in this season's squad let alone one in the Super League. And certainly not on my sayso!

I don't wag Rod and he doesn't wag me - well maybe when we go out for a beer, but that's all ;)

Read through the post carefully, then read it again, then reconsider your remarks - because they make you look ridiculous - if not bitter! How strange, seeing as you probably don't even know me! If you did then I doubt you would have passed the remark in the first place ::)
Ha Ha I have re read my post (how small it is) and I've come to the conclusion that I didn't say I wasn't going to name names then did (ridiculous I know.. sorry) and I am not bitter! what have I got to be bitter about? The tail doesn't wag the dog but you mention two players who YOU expect to be involved in your Super league drive??? and to boot you are (correct me if I'm wrong) the chairperson of said club and anyone with a modicum of knowledge of the womens football will know that and who you are... I could go on and say that you have under achieved for numerous seasons and now you are looking to buy yourselves into the top flight after being one of the biggest antagonists about the propsosal, but I won't.. because I would not want to be hypocritical as well as ridiculous..
Now, Geoff you read your own posts again and I will not judge... because I don't need to.. oops did I say I might be hypocrital my faux pas...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on February 01, 2010, 11:07:17 AM
Billy Hunt, whoever you are - Re-read - judged - in my mind you = some idiot with axe to grind - will waste no more time on you and not interested in conversing with you again - end of conversation!

Everyone else - I'll happily chat with about the Super League etc. so long as it's what I'm allowed to divulge and isn't confidential with Lincoln or FA, to keep you in the picture so long as it doesn't get personal  :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: samtom on February 01, 2010, 01:05:30 PM
whatever happens there will be a lot of loyal players pushed out of clubs because of the influx of "better" players.because a player has not been selected for an england squad it does not make them inferior.we all know of players of real quality who have not had a chance for one reason or another.jody michalska of lincoln,reanne thomas of forest and lauren impey of leicester to name but three.it when are clubs allowed to approach players to play in the superleague.it will be interesting to see what happens.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Oldship30 on February 01, 2010, 01:22:57 PM
...
Everyone else - I'll happily chat with about the Super League etc. so long as it's what I'm allowed to divulge and isn't confidential with Lincoln or FA, to keep you in the picture so long as it doesn't get personal  :)

Hi Geoff
Are you allowed to explain how the cups are going to work? Are Superleague teams going to play cup matches in what will be their close season?

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on February 01, 2010, 02:33:37 PM
Yes, I'd be delighted!

I was at the Women's Premier League SGM on Saturday. It was mentioned there that Super League clubs will compete in the FA Cup. If I remember correctly that was in the pack as well.

To the best of my knowledge they do not have a date for the FA Cup with Super League Club involvement yet, however from what I can glean the SL clubs will come in to the competition at a later stage, the same as the National Div clubs do now. To accomodate the Super League Summer season it looks as if the FA Cup Final will be moved to a different month than it is now. The month that was mooted at the SGM was October, however they stressed to the clubs that this was not a firm month, and that they hadn't received word from the FA yet about which month it would be. I'm afraid I don't have any info at all regarding how this will affect the earlier and later rounds of the cup concerning the winter clubs - it's all very vague at the moment. Hope this helps  :)

I'm afraid I have no info on League Cups or County Cups. I can only imagine these will stay as normal - but I really don't know that for sure!
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: redrobin on February 01, 2010, 02:50:20 PM
Do we know for sure yet whether the Premier League are going to jettison their National Division....or rather the member clubs are being told undemocratically by the F.A. that they can't have one.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 01, 2010, 04:00:11 PM
Doncaster Belles' fortunes revive as they look for Super League spot

• Doncaster Belles now only Yorkshire bidders for elite league

In a dramatic reversal of fortunes Doncaster Belles, 12 months ago destitute and worryingly close to extinction, have become a viable business operation and one of the favourites to secure a place in the Football Association's new Super League.

The withdrawal of Leeds Carnegie's bid for membership of the elite summer league, set to start next year, has left Doncaster as the only Yorkshire club among the 15 remaining bidders. And with the FA hoping for an equable geographic spread among the league's clubs, the Belles' hierarchy is in turn hoping that the bid – presented in detail to the FA last week – will prove persuasive enough to secure one of the eight available places.

"I think the FA liked what it heard from us," said the club chairman, Jonathan James. "This time last year we were concerned that we might not see out the season, but we looked for a long-term strategy and what we have come up with is a sustainable business model that is already starting to prove successful. We are working as a social enterprise, winning contracts to deliver multi-sport activities all around Doncaster, and the venture will keep us going even if we don't get into the Super League."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jan/31/doncaster-belles-womens-super-league-bid
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on February 01, 2010, 06:14:03 PM
Red Robin,

There has been no decision as to the structure of the WPL once the Super League kicks in.

There was a workshop at the SGM on Saturday to get a consesus from the clubs, however there will be a final vote in March, I believe, when the remaining 28 clubs in the Winter League will vote for a preference. The choices are 1. the structure stays the same with a National Div at the top - 2. just North and South - 3. North Midlands and South all at the same level. The result of that vote will then be presented by the WPL committee to the FA Women's committee as a recommendation. Assuming there are no other factors involved it is assumed that the FA Women's committee will implement the structure voted upon by the remaining 28 clubs. The initial consensus delivered by the clubs at the SGM was that the structure should remain the same as it is now, with a National div at the top unerpinned in a pyrimed by a North and a South Divisions. But as I say, a final vote on the structure will take place when the Super League clubs have been decided and removed from the WPL.

My best personal guestimate from feeback at the SGM - the structure will remain the same - with a strong Winter Premier League with a National Div at the top of the Northern and Southern Divs. My opinion for what it is worth is that this will give a good foundation to the Summer League, and keep the foundations in place for as strong Winter League as it is possible to have. Also, it will provide a strong league structure for players who miss out on playing in the Summer League to play in. Cost is of course an issue, but this has been taken into account by the clubs when voicing their preferences.

Hope this helps...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on February 01, 2010, 06:20:36 PM
whatever happens there will be a lot of loyal players pushed out of clubs because of the influx of "better" players.because a player has not been selected for an england squad it does not make them inferior.we all know of players of real quality who have not had a chance for one reason or another.jody michalska of lincoln,reanne thomas of forest and lauren impey of leicester to name but three.it when are clubs allowed to approach players to play in the superleague.it will be interesting to see what happens.

Actually I have no info about how and when clubs will be allowed to approach players to play in the super league - I will assume normal rules apply - with June being open season on all players, otherwise 7 days notice of approach must be issued if trying to entice that player to play for your club in the current season...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on February 01, 2010, 06:52:09 PM
It seems that Blackburn Rovers weren't willing to risk the long-term future of the women's club, but they are likely to lose a considerable number of the 1st team squad in the summer.

If the Super League is a success Blackburn might find that they have 'missed the bus' though, and so I suppose they haven't taken a risk free option themselves.

The Super League won't stop the Americans poaching our top talent, players will always be tempted by the life style they offer. They are 10 years ahead of the English game.

It will certainly help to provide another option though.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on February 01, 2010, 10:01:18 PM
8 clubs? you can cut that down to 7 or 6....Arsenal will not be making any drastic changes to there squad and Everton probably won't either...assuming that these 2 clubs are virtually going to be guaranteed a licence.  120 players spread amongest 6 clubs - lots of quality players forced to play in the winter league due to not enough clubs.  Players are currently considering there future and worried about whether they'll be offered a place at a Super League club.

I think a lot of players will be worried whether they'll be offered a place at a club never mind a super league one....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on February 02, 2010, 12:13:23 AM
Blackburn Rovers are being cautious, but at the same time they have a further 2 years to work on their business plan and improve the overall structure of the club.  If the league is a success (as we all hope) then they can go through the process again. 

Hopefully the  Centre of Excellence will be producing enough quality youngsters to provide the manager with a new set of 1st team players.  The club, may have to endure some tough times of the next few months (with the possible loss of some senior players), but in the long-run may return to the top flight all the stronger.

It will be a shame that such a hot-bed of football may only have 1 x Super League club, when in an ideal situation the North West should be looking at having 3 x Super League clubs.  Remember, 10/15 years ago it was Liverpool competing with Arsenal to be the top team in the country.  I personally would like to see both Liverpool and Everton in the Super League, alongside Doncaster Belles and Bristol Academy.  Doncaster Belles...purely because the game needs to have it's most famous  'name' in the top flight....I can't get used to calling the Doncaster 'Rovers' Belles.  Bristol Academy because they are such a forward thinking club and the West Country shouldn't be ignored

One thing about this forum, I wish I few more players would join the debate...but I guess they are too busy (i.e. down the SU bar).
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on February 02, 2010, 02:17:20 AM
Billy Hunt, whoever you are - Re-read - judged - in my mind you = some idiot with axe to grind - will waste no more time on you and not interested in conversing with you again - end of conversation!

Everyone else - I'll happily chat with about the Super League etc. so long as it's what I'm allowed to divulge and isn't confidential with Lincoln or FA, to keep you in the picture so long as it doesn't get personal  :)

I'd just like to thank you for all that you have said in the past on here (including the link to where you did the chat ;))
There are plenty of fans on here - most more knowledgable than I am, and I'm sure many talk a lot of sense.
But, it's nice to have a real insider joining us and helping giving us information, as much as possible, using their own name and  position.

Thanks Geoff :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 02, 2010, 10:20:44 AM
8 clubs? you can cut that down to 7 or 6....Arsenal will not be making any drastic changes to there squad and Everton probably won't either...assuming that these 2 clubs are virtually going to be guaranteed a licence.  120 players spread amongest 6 clubs - lots of quality players forced to play in the winter league due to not enough clubs.  Players are currently considering there future and worried about whether they'll be offered a place at a Super League club.

I think a lot of players will be worried whether they'll be offered a place at a club never mind a super league one....

The best players won't have any problem at all.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on February 02, 2010, 12:17:07 PM
Hey, no problem twm - thanks for the kind words!

I'm actually treating the users of this message board as I treat Lincon's own supporters, and press and media etc. It's maybe a contributary reason why we enjoy the support in numbers that we do.

I actually wish the FA would issue a few more statements to keep people on the big picture - you know, into the press, that sort of thing. It would stop confusion and rumour. Tony Leighton's column in the Guardian would be the perfect vehicle. In my view supporters are important people, especially as the Super League will require, and everyone really is desperate anyway, to get attendances up.

As the old saying goes - football belongs to the people!  :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on February 02, 2010, 09:00:38 PM
I agree with Geoff,the supporters are the 2nd most important people in the game but the media needs to be utilised alot more. 

On having met Tony Leighton a couple of times, I see him as the ideal person to help push Women's Football higher up in the thinking of people's 'sporting' options.  Having attended one of Hope's press conferences it was very interesting to see....Hope, Fara Williams and Jacqui Oatley (and all the other press) wait for Tony to finish typing on his laptop before they started the press conference.

As a more senior sports journalist he has a major amount of knowledge and is hugely respected in the game. Having said that, he doesn't do much if any work for the FA anymore.  On the major Blackburn Rovers Supporters forum - Alan Nixon (Niko) a north west based football journalist contributes and keeps people informed.  Maybe we could ask Tony if he would like to contribute to this forum?

  As someone who is trying to develop a career in Sports Photography/Journalism, he is a person that I have alot of respect for and he could only make this forum better.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on February 03, 2010, 02:34:40 AM
I'm actually treating the users of this message board as I treat Lincon's own supporters, and press and media etc. It's maybe a contributary reason why we enjoy the support in numbers that we do.
People are here because we all love women's football whatever team we support.
I have met loads of people from here  at games and they are all very nice as well.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Aphrodites Child on February 04, 2010, 04:19:57 PM
Quote
Posted by: Sylvain   I have met loads of people from here  at games and they are all very nice as well.

merci beaucoup monsieur, tu es tres bon ami
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on February 06, 2010, 12:27:13 AM
I agree with Geoff,the supporters are the 2nd most important people in the game but the media needs to be utilised alot more. 

On having met Tony Leighton a couple of times, I see him as the ideal person to help push Women's Football higher up in the thinking of people's 'sporting' options.  Having attended one of Hope's press conferences it was very interesting to see....Hope, Fara Williams and Jacqui Oatley (and all the other press) wait for Tony to finish typing on his laptop before they started the press conference.

As a more senior sports journalist he has a major amount of knowledge and is hugely respected in the game. Having said that, he doesn't do much if any work for the FA anymore.  On the major Blackburn Rovers Supporters forum - Alan Nixon (Niko) a north west based football journalist contributes and keeps people informed.  Maybe we could ask Tony if he would like to contribute to this forum?

  As someone who is trying to develop a career in Sports Photography/Journalism, he is a person that I have alot of respect for and he could only make this forum better.

Met Tony at a game and says he doesn't work at all for the FA any longer.
Title: Newcastle United miss out on Superleague
Post by: Sylvain on February 10, 2010, 12:27:51 PM


Newcastle United's bid to join the proposed new FA Women's Super League has failed.

Newcastle United WFC Chairham, Phil Eadon said; "This news is a bitter disappointment for everyone involved with the club. It is also a big blow for the development of women's and girls football in the Newcastle and Northumbria area.

"The opportunity for the club to be seen on ESPN during the summer televised matches would have been a big boost to the development of Newcastle United Women's Football Club.

Although disappointed, the club committee will be doubling its efforts to secure partners and sponsors to help take the club forward.

The Magpies are putting in place a group of partner organisations that will enable the club to play football at the highest possible level. Newcastle's ambition is to win promotion into the Super League at the first possible opportunity.

http://www.shekicks.net/news/view/241
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on February 10, 2010, 04:16:01 PM
I'm actually very sorry to hear that - at the beginning of the process I had tipped them to get in. I think they've got a great setup, and we've always looked forward to our games with them, both home and away. Neil and his staff will be disapointed, I wish them well for the next couple of seasons and hope they make it in the top flight eventually - they deserve it!
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on February 10, 2010, 05:40:07 PM
There are now 14 teams in it. It is quite funny that the information comes from the club directly and not the FA. It would have been good the reason of the reject ie money stadium organisation etc..
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on February 11, 2010, 12:21:42 AM
The FA site doesn't mention it, but it's on the Newcastle site, but no reason given.

Are they going through teams one by one and finding reasons to turn them down until just 8 are left?  ???
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Billy Hunt on February 11, 2010, 01:00:02 AM
Billy Hunt, whoever you are - Re-read - judged - in my mind you = some idiot with axe to grind - will waste no more time on you and not interested in conversing with you again - end of conversation!

Everyone else - I'll happily chat with about the Super League etc. so long as it's what I'm allowed to divulge and isn't confidential with Lincoln or FA, to keep you in the picture so long as it doesn't get personal  :)
Hypocrite? you decide!
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on February 11, 2010, 01:44:55 AM
The rumour I've heard tonight is, Sunderland have failed to gain a Super League licence.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on February 11, 2010, 02:54:48 AM
The rumour I've heard tonight is, Sunderland have failed to gain a Super League licence.

That would mean the North-East don't have a team then :o

I thought that they'd have one :o

But someone on fb has said "Unless you're from the South, you may as well not play football" - and that is a Sunderland player  :'(

So, it seems likely  :'(
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on February 11, 2010, 03:27:58 AM
So, we're possibly down to the following 13:

Arsenal Ladies FC, Barnet FC, Birmingham City Ladies FC, Bristol Academy Women’s FC, Chelsea Ladies FC, Colchester United Ladies FC, Doncaster Rovers Belles, Everton Ladies FC, Leicester City FC, Lincoln City, Liverpool, Millwall Lionesses FC, Nottingham Forest.

If my geography is correct:

5 London and South-East.
2 Merseyside.
1 South West
3 East Midlands.
1 Central Midlands
1 North

And the last 5 (irrespective of where they actually play, just relating to their towns / cities) are no further than 90 miles apart at most, so could almost appear as one group.

Maybe Chicken Bhuna was making some very valid points earlier!!

And, what about teams like Blackburn, who didn't apply for the following reasons?
“Our women’s and girls section is fully integrated and supported by Blackburn Rovers Football Club,” said secretary Gemma Donnelly.
“However, part of the criteria of the Super League relates to it becoming a separate legal entity by July."

Doesn't this apply to teams such as Arsenal?

Maybe the club could give Arsenal a big payment to help them go through alone - but I doubt that to be the case with some others.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: TempeBrennan on February 11, 2010, 09:51:00 AM
The rumour I've heard tonight is, Sunderland have failed to gain a Super League licence.

>> http://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/Sunderland-Women-shocked-by-Super.6058767.jp
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on February 11, 2010, 10:42:44 AM
Only 5 to go and we have our final 8, this my bet now :

Arsenal Ladies FC, Birmingham City Ladies FC,  Chelsea Ladies FC,  Doncaster Rovers Belles, Everton
and then  ???
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on February 11, 2010, 03:41:17 PM
I think it's a disgrace that there is likely to be only 2 teams from the North of England in the Super League.  So much for promoting the game.  One team in the North West (if Liverpool don't get in) and One from Yorkshire...Non from the North-East. 

The majority of the England squad(s) come from clubs in the North of England - are the U23/U19 players from Sunderland being told by the FA to find Super League clubs? If so which one's?

The whole concept is totally flawed.  Full-time Central Contracts for an England Squad of 22, (paid for by the FA) is the only workable method of professionalism for women's football.  By all means move the National and North/South Leagues to the summer.

 Heavy marketing of the game is needed - the lack of a broadcaster for such a showpiece game as the League Cup Final shows that the FA are clearly lacking in ideas to promote the game. I just hope the Sunderland team isn't cherry picked by the Super League teams, as it's already started to happen to the other clubs who aren't in it.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 11, 2010, 04:06:55 PM
I think it's a disgrace that there is likely to be only 2 teams from the North of England in the Super League.  So much for promoting the game.  One team in the North West (if Liverpool don't get in) and One from Yorkshire...Non from the North-East. 

The majority of the England squad(s) come from clubs in the North of England - are the U23/U19 players from Sunderland being told by the FA to find Super League clubs? If so which one's?

The whole concept is totally flawed.  Full-time Central Contracts for an England Squad of 22, (paid for by the FA) is the only workable method of professionalism for women's football.  By all means move the National and North/South Leagues to the summer.

 Heavy marketing of the game is needed - the lack of a broadcaster for such a showpiece game as the League Cup Final shows that the FA are clearly lacking in ideas to promote the game. I just hope the Sunderland team isn't cherry picked by the Super League teams, as it's already started to happen to the other clubs who aren't in it.

It is not a disagace at all. The panel has a duty to pick the best teams based on the information provided to them.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on February 11, 2010, 08:32:08 PM
I think it's a disgrace that there is likely to be only 2 teams from the North of England in the Super League.  So much for promoting the game.  One team in the North West (if Liverpool don't get in) and One from Yorkshire...Non from the North-East. 

I suppose it would just be as valid for me to say that if Liverpool do get in, then 'the north' may well have three of the eight spots. Which seems like quite a good share.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on February 12, 2010, 12:57:18 AM
...who let Brian Rix in.....?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: treble99 on February 12, 2010, 02:19:57 AM
I think it's a disgrace that there is likely to be only 2 teams from the North of England in the Super League.  So much for promoting the game.  One team in the North West (if Liverpool don't get in) and One from Yorkshire...Non from the North-East. 
I suppose it would just be as valid for me to say that if Liverpool do get in, then 'the north' may well have three of the eight spots. Which seems like quite a good share.

Wow just heard Man United have put a late bid in to join the Super league!!! :o












in 2016 !!!
hahaha that raised a few eyebrows!! :D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on February 12, 2010, 03:49:56 AM
I think it's a disgrace that there is likely to be only 2 teams from the North of England in the Super League.  So much for promoting the game.  One team in the North West (if Liverpool don't get in) and One from Yorkshire...Non from the North-East. 
I suppose it would just be as valid for me to say that if Liverpool do get in, then 'the north' may well have three of the eight spots. Which seems like quite a good share.

Wow just heard Man United have put a late bid in to join the Super league!!! :o












in 2016 !!!
hahaha that raised a few eyebrows!! :D

The FA are mad enough to rearrange the rules that let teams apply :(
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: treble99 on February 13, 2010, 03:01:08 AM
I think it's a disgrace that there is likely to be only 2 teams from the North of England in the Super League.  So much for promoting the game.  One team in the North West (if Liverpool don't get in) and One from Yorkshire...Non from the North-East. 
I suppose it would just be as valid for me to say that if Liverpool do get in, then 'the north' may well have three of the eight spots. Which seems like quite a good share.

Wow just heard Man United have put a late bid in to join the Super league!!! :o

in 2016 !!!
hahaha that raised a few eyebrows!! :D

The FA are mad enough to rearrange the rules that let teams apply :(

Surely NOT Cat!?! :-\ :o
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on February 13, 2010, 02:33:36 PM
I think it's a disgrace that there is likely to be only 2 teams from the North of England in the Super League.  So much for promoting the game.  One team in the North West (if Liverpool don't get in) and One from Yorkshire...Non from the North-East.  
I suppose it would just be as valid for me to say that if Liverpool do get in, then 'the north' may well have three of the eight spots. Which seems like quite a good share.

Wow just heard Man United have put a late bid in to join the Super league!!! :o

in 2016 !!!
hahaha that raised a few eyebrows!! :D

Stop being ridiculous!  ;D

They'll have to wait until at least 2116 before their sins have been sufficiently cleansed, and they are allowed to join the top flight women's football community.  ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: David on February 15, 2010, 01:10:32 AM
Does anyone know when the winners get announced ? I thought it was meant to be last week
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on February 15, 2010, 01:42:14 AM
They keep announcing losers, I suppose the 8 left will be the winners?  ???
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on February 15, 2010, 04:09:33 AM
They keep announcing losers, I suppose the 8 left will be the winners?  ???

when will they announce its off for another year do you think.. before or after they announce the final 8? :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on February 15, 2010, 10:39:23 AM
Don't forget the FA hasn't announced anything yet.
The losing clubs are coming forwards to say they have not been chosen.
Also there is a right of appeal actually against the final 8 decision,it could be a few weeks/month.
We were discussing it yesterday at the game with RR and my feeling is a WUSA type collapse might happen at the end of year 1 or 2.
The "good thing" coming out of this is the transfer window will be hot with players like
Anderton, Kane, Shepherd, Alderson, Nobbs, Bronze, Telford, Houghton, Walton,Moore, White, Cantrell  or Clarke on the market. 
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 15, 2010, 03:20:54 PM
England winger Sue Smith: "When we heard the Super League news we were absolutely distraught," said Smith, "but we quickly decided to stick together and go out with a bang. We've been in three cup finals in the last four seasons and lost them all – but we are more determined than ever this time and we've got absolute belief that we can win."

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/womensfootball



Leeds Carnegie deservedly beat the League Cup favourites Everton 3-1 to lift the first major trophy of their 20-year history at Rochdale's Spotland stadium.

It could be the last, too, which made for an emotional evening. The club may be in their swansong season.

The decision of Carnegie's patron, Leeds Metropolitan University, to withdraw the club's bid to join the Football Association's new Super League is set to lead to an end-of-season exodus of players and quite possibly the folding of the club known as Leeds United before it was jettisoned from the Elland Road set-up two years ago.

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/womensfootball
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 15, 2010, 03:21:57 PM
Sunderland Women shocked by Super League decision

Published Date: 10 February 2010
By Neil Watson

Sunderland Women's Football Club have failed in their bid to be part of the new Super League.
But chairman Maurice Alderson and manager Mick Mulhern have vowed to fight on and take the Wearsiders back to the top level of the English game.

The Lady Black Cats – who have topped the Women's Premier League for five months this season – were told that their bid to be part of a new eight-team elite summer league fell short on marketing and commercial grounds.

That was a massive blow to the club, who worked hard to produce an ambitious but realistic bid for the FA, including partnerships with SAFC, Sunderland University and Gateshead College.

Newcastle United have also failed in their bid, leaving the North East without a team in the new semi-professional set-up, which the FA hopes will help raise the profile of the women's game.

"I was shocked and extemely disappointed when I was given the news," said chairman Alderson.

"I was so confident in our bid – I still don't think there can be many better.

"It is a real setback. The club has come on so much in a short time. We are bringing through so many exciting players – we had four players in the England U19 team that won the European Championships, and have many other England players at different levels.

"We have been excellent this season and are still top of the table. I think the new league will be weaker without us, but we have to face up to this and stay strong."

There is a chance that some Sunderland players will be picked off by teams which do win a Super League place, but the distances involved for players to travel to play – the nearest Super League teams might end up being in Doncaster or Liverpool – should rule out major changes.

Manager Mick Mulhern certainly wants to keep his vibrant young side together and play their way back to the top by winning a re-formed second-tier National League; although there will be no promotion into the Super League for two years.

"Yes, it's a huge blow but we can always apply again in two years, and we now have the core of the bid in place," added Mulhern, the women's game's Manager of the Year.

"We have a great young side and I won't let everyone's hard work go to waste. We have been in worse situations than this when we have been relegated and lost players, but each time we have built a team to be proud of.

"We might lose one or two players and if the chance to play in the Super League comes along for them, then I will wish them well.

"Every player should want to plat at the highest level possible. But I feel I have now got the strength in depth to fill any gaps and challenge the likes of Millwall, Blackburn, Watford and whoever else remains of the Premier League.

"We've been top of the National Premier League since October and we should all be very proud of that. I love a challenge and I'm determined that we will play our way back to the top."

http://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/Sunderland-Women-shocked-by-Super.6058767.jp
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 15, 2010, 03:24:45 PM
Sunderland outraged to find they have been left out of Super League


The Premier League leaders, Sunderland, have been given a "kick in the teeth", said their chairman, Maurice Alderson, after learning that his club's hopes of becoming a founder member of the Football Association's Super League have been dashed.

"With the help of Sunderland FC," said Alderson, "we put in a very strong bid and not for one moment did I think we wouldn't get in. We're top of the league, we reached last season's FA Cup final and we've got nine current internationals at various age levels. To have all that on top of a bid backed by a Premiership club and get turned down is devastating. We've been kicked in the teeth."

Sunderland's neighbours Newcastle United, who play in the Northern Division, have also been informed that they will not be one of the Super League's eight clubs, the identities of which will shortly be revealed by the FA.

The north-east will therefore not be represented in the league, which is set to start next year. "At a meeting about the league two and a half years ago," said Alderson, "the FA showed a big map of England but the northern-most city they highlighted was Leeds. When I pointed it out I was told it was 'just an oversight', but I'm wondering now if we were ever intended to be included."

The FA declined to respond to Alderson's comments. "We are still at the adjudication stage of the application process and at this time we will not comment on any individual club's application," a spokesman said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/feb/15/sunderland-womens-super-league
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on February 16, 2010, 03:05:42 PM
Quote
"At a meeting about the league two and a half years ago," said Alderson, "the FA showed a big map of England but the northern-most city they highlighted was Leeds. When I pointed it out I was told it was 'just an oversight', but I'm wondering now if we were ever intended to be included."

Strange considering Leeds are not going to be in it either....Maybe the FA should ban it again after the ban the game continued to thrive....Since the FA has decided to develope it the thing's turned to shit...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 16, 2010, 03:15:06 PM
Quote
"At a meeting about the league two and a half years ago," said Alderson, "the FA showed a big map of England but the northern-most city they highlighted was Leeds. When I pointed it out I was told it was 'just an oversight', but I'm wondering now if we were ever intended to be included."

Strange considering Leeds are not going to be in it either....Maybe the FA should ban it again after the ban the game continued to thrive....Since the FA has decided to develope it the thing's turned to shit...

Initially they had to rule out the clubs who failed to meet the min criteria.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on February 16, 2010, 03:17:39 PM
it is certainly going to be a great elite league - I hope all you who will be watching will enjoy....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 16, 2010, 03:19:49 PM
it is certainly going to be a great elite league - I hope all you who will be watching will enjoy....

I certainly expect to enjoy a more professionally run league.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Aphrodites Child on February 16, 2010, 04:17:04 PM
the current set up is hampered by the outside bodies which impinge on it

FAWPL fixtures disrupted because of international fixtures, FA Women's Cup and also County Cups

men's clubs have by and large dispensed with having to play in County Cup fixtures - or they field a non-first team

not sure how Super League and County Cups will dovetail as County Cups are a winter competition

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on February 16, 2010, 04:24:49 PM
what you expect and what you will get may be 2 very different things......
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Aphrodites Child on February 16, 2010, 04:30:49 PM
Quote
OOH Fayefan  
what you expect and what you will get may be 2 very different things......

 at least two of those clubs we know have not been successful were among those many of us expected to be part of Super League
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on February 16, 2010, 04:43:28 PM
Does anyone know when the winners get announced ? I thought it was meant to be last week

The FA have said publicly that clubs will be informed in March - this seems to make sense as the transfer window shuts in March - my view not necessarilly the FA's. My view is that this will stop huge flows of players out of some clubs and into different ones before the season is played out - and quite rightly so. This season needs to settled before the true business of recruiting for the Super League is undertaken...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 16, 2010, 05:00:45 PM
Quote
OOH Fayefan  
what you expect and what you will get may be 2 very different things......

 at least two of those clubs we know have not been successful were among those many of us expected to be part of Super League

But none of us have seen the returned application forms. It was clear that the FA expected the clubs to meet the given criteria.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on February 16, 2010, 05:01:05 PM
maybe they should introduce the same system in the mens game, that way teams in the championship could get in the Premier League without actually having to have a good team just as long as they got a good plan which satisfies the FA...

Wonder if the womens league will copy the men and introduce the proposed Champs league playoff system , if the men decide to go ahead with it.......it all sounds good , eh....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: redrobin on February 16, 2010, 05:21:42 PM
maybe they should introduce the same system in the mens game, that way teams in the championship could get in the Premier League without actually having to have a good team just as long as they got a good plan which satisfies the FA...


That's the fiendish plan....the F.A. are trialling the experiment with the Women's League prior to imposing a ban on all relegation and promotion in the men's pyramid. The future will be based on a system of national, regional and county franchise bidding to be controlled by a network of experts in drawing little circles and polygons on maps.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on February 16, 2010, 05:25:35 PM
so, the 'new' Elite League is in fact a backward step -...it will be just like it was during the war.....bet the prices wont be 3d in the stands....... ;) ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: samtom on February 16, 2010, 06:57:20 PM
surprised lincoln got in superleague and belles did not.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on February 16, 2010, 07:01:07 PM
maybe its not about if you can play football but if you are articulate and can put a business plan together that the FA like and if you have a nice face, it must just fit..... :o
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on February 16, 2010, 07:07:32 PM
maybe its not about if you can play football but if you are articulate and can put a business plan together that the FA like and if you have a nice face, it must just fit..... :o
Well that's what is written in the superleague brochure. Need a proper businees plan.

surprised lincoln got in superleague and belles did not.
???
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on February 16, 2010, 07:09:04 PM
nothing to do with being a good football team then, that is in the Premier League already on merit?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on February 16, 2010, 07:11:20 PM
surprised lincoln got in superleague and belles did not.

Oh yes - please do tell??? When and where did this info come out??

I'll be delighted if  you're correct, but I'm surprised you know...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on February 16, 2010, 07:12:11 PM
nothing to do with being a good football team then, that is in the Premier League already on merit?
There is a chapter on football squads but it is only a part of the criteria.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on February 16, 2010, 07:13:14 PM
I guess it would only be a small part , eh.....it's only the game  afterall..
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on February 16, 2010, 07:14:12 PM
Football is not a game any more, it is an industry...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on February 16, 2010, 07:16:30 PM
..not any more, even Sheffield dont make stell any more, and as for Northampton Town......Cobblers?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 16, 2010, 07:58:59 PM
maybe they should introduce the same system in the mens game, that way teams in the championship could get in the Premier League without actually having to have a good team just as long as they got a good plan which satisfies the FA...

John wrote a piece about how the Football League dealt with expansion in the men’s game.  It surprised me the way they did things back then.

As for your comments about clubs joining the league without having gained promotion via the football pyramid, I'd refer you right back in time to the expansion of men's league football in England.

The league was expanded a number of times in the early days with each expansion being handled differently. For example, at the end of the 1891/92 season a division two was created, instead of a whole new division being built out of clubs not previously playing the League a far more extraordinary solution was evolved, with three teams (Manchester United, Nottingham Forest and Sheffield Wednesday) coming straight into division one without having played in the League before, and one club - Darwin – being relegated from division 1 to division 2 (how could they possibly know that Manchester United was a team more deserving of a place in division 1 than Darwin who had been playing there?)  The rest of division 2 was made up newly elected teams.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 16, 2010, 08:00:48 PM
That's the fiendish plan....the F.A. are trialling the experiment with the Women's League prior to imposing a ban on all relegation and promotion in the men's pyramid. The future will be based on a system of national, regional and county franchise bidding to be controlled by a network of experts in drawing little circles and polygons on maps.

Nonsense.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 16, 2010, 08:01:56 PM
so, the 'new' Elite League is in fact a backward step -...it will be just like it was during the war.....bet the prices wont be 3d in the stands....... ;) ;)

In your eyes. I bet time will prove that it was a massive step forward.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 16, 2010, 08:12:09 PM
I think it's a disgrace that there is likely to be only 2 teams from the North of England in the Super League.  So much for promoting the game.  One team in the North West (if Liverpool don't get in) and One from Yorkshire...Non from the North-East. 

Sunderland and Newcastle's failure to make the cut was simply down to not having a good enough bid.  People seem to forget that the FA are looking at the quality of the bid first of all.  They would then look to try and have a geographical spread from the teams that meet the standards.

From the Guardian:

"A good geographical spread would be ideal," said the FA's bid co-ordinator, Sally Horrox, "but commercial sustainability will be vital and on the playing side we want clubs who can make this a world-class league."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/dec/20/super-league-barnet-womens-football (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/dec/20/super-league-barnet-womens-football)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 16, 2010, 08:20:59 PM
surprised lincoln got in superleague and belles did not.

Why would that be a surprise?  History has no real bearing on this.  I always felt Lincoln's bid would be one of the best.  Remember they've been able to call upon a top sports marketing consultant during the application phase.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 16, 2010, 08:24:04 PM
maybe its not about if you can play football but if you are articulate and can put a business plan together that the FA like and if you have a nice face, it must just fit..... :o

Remember the judging panel has independent members on the panel.  The clubs need to have a good business plan for it to be sustainable in the long-term.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on February 16, 2010, 08:24:29 PM
I agree with what you're posting, but you're being far too objective and sensible for this thread Gooner.  ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 16, 2010, 08:28:44 PM
nothing to do with being a good football team then, that is in the Premier League already on merit?
There is a chapter on football squads but it is only a part of the criteria.
I guess it would only be a small part , eh.....it's only the game  afterall..

So you’ve not even bothered to read the whole application pack.  I hate it when people make so many negative comments without obviously being aware of all the facts.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on February 17, 2010, 12:06:36 AM
Darwin must be defunct now......what county are they in? ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on February 17, 2010, 02:31:39 AM
Have you Arsenal fans not been north of Watford?

Darwen is a small town between Blackburn and Bolton.

Darwen FC closed last year when the club went into liquidation.  They played for many years in the North West Counties League and former players included Matt Derbyshire - ex-Blackburn Rovers.  The clubs ladies team have spawned a few players who have gone onto play for Blackburn Rovers LFC.

AFC Darwen were formed to replace the defunct club and play in the West Lancashire Football League - one level below the North West Counties League.  AFC Darwen still play on Darwen FC's Anchor Ground stadium.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on February 17, 2010, 02:52:12 PM
Another one bites the dust :
Millwall Lionesses misses out on FA Superleague
http://www.clubwebsite.co.uk/millwalllionessesfc01/club_news.pl?news=292422
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on February 17, 2010, 02:55:50 PM
Arsenal Ladies FC, Barnet FC, Birmingham City Ladies FC, Bristol Academy Women’s FC, Chelsea Ladies FC, Colchester United Ladies FC, Doncaster Rovers Belles, Everton Ladies FC, Leeds Carnegie Ladies FC, Leicester City FC, Lincoln City, Liverpool, Millwall Lionesses FC, Newcastle United Women's FC, Nottingham Forest, Sunderland Women’s FC.
Only 4 teams to eliminate now.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 17, 2010, 03:35:45 PM
Another one bites the dust :
Millwall Lionesses misses out on FA Superleague
http://www.clubwebsite.co.uk/millwalllionessesfc01/club_news.pl?news=292422

I cannot find any article saying they have failed. The link takes you to the December FA press release about the FA receiving the applications from the clubs . Are you sure it was on that website?

Only 4 teams to eliminate now.

It doesn’t necessarily mean that they will end up awarding all of the 8 licences.  The FA stated at the time that it was subject to clubs meeting the required criteria.

“An optimum eight licences will be offered to the strongest applicants by March 2010, giving all clubs a full 12 months to prepare for the launch of The League.”

Hopefully all the remianing clubs will have met the minimum requirements.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 17, 2010, 04:21:05 PM
Have you Arsenal fans not been north of Watford?

You shouldn't generalise.  OOH Fayefan doesn't appear to have great in-depth knowledge of London, let alone small market towns in Lancashire.  I suppose his speciality could be Hertfordshire.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on February 17, 2010, 04:27:21 PM
It is on the moving thing "latest news " after the cup results against Chelsea.
Quite true 8 teams are not guaranteed to be found.
The more people excluded the more interesting the next transfer window will be actually  ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 17, 2010, 04:36:52 PM
It is on the moving thing "latest news " after the cup results against Chelsea.
Quite true 8 teams are not guaranteed to be found.
The more people excluded the more interesting the next transfer window will be actually  ;D


Thanks for the additional details.  I hadn't looked at the rolling headlines at the top of the screen.  I wonder whether they’ve failed based on the criteria or whether it was for geographical reasons. If it is for geographical reasons, Barnet might have similar issues.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on February 17, 2010, 04:51:54 PM
Hertfordshire..?...wheres that and what is the current ant population...?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Aphrodites Child on February 17, 2010, 05:01:18 PM
looking at the dirty dozen (lol) - my own view is that Barnet, Colchester, one of Everton/Liverpool, Leicester will follow in not being successful, but that is not to say that the remaining 8 actually fulfil all the necessary criteria

it would not surprise me if the optimum number of 8 is not met

then depending on how many clubs actually fulfil all necessary criteria, will we be left with a league to rival the Isles of Scilly?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on February 17, 2010, 05:11:08 PM
I always liked Brian Rix........but hope I never get caught with my trousers down.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: treble99 on February 17, 2010, 05:37:46 PM
I always liked Brian Rix........but hope I never get caught with my trousers down.

Or you skirt up!?!
"Oooh missus !! titter ye not!" ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on February 17, 2010, 05:46:07 PM
will you shut that door..... ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 17, 2010, 05:47:48 PM
Hertfordshire..?...wheres that and what is the current ant population...?

Hertfordshire has towns such as Stevenage, St Albans and Hemel Hempstead. The ant population is discussed here: http://womensfootball.eu/forum/index.php/topic,5864.msg45622.html#new (http://womensfootball.eu/forum/index.php/topic,5864.msg45622.html#new)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Aphrodites Child on February 17, 2010, 05:49:53 PM
if FA close door on Arsenal Ladies FC, Barnet FC, Birmingham City Ladies FC, Bristol Academy Women’s FC, Chelsea Ladies FC, Colchester United Ladies FC, Doncaster Rovers Belles, Everton Ladies FC, Leicester City FC, Lincoln City, Liverpool and Nottingham Forest (i.e no club gets into super league) will this bring the curtain down

for the end of yet another classic Engliash FArce
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on February 17, 2010, 05:51:41 PM
Gooner, I owe you an apology.......you do have a sense of humour after all..........welcome aboard ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on February 17, 2010, 06:59:53 PM
looking at the dirty dozen (lol) - my own view is that Barnet, Colchester, one of Everton/Liverpool, Leicester will follow in not being successful, but that is not to say that the remaining 8 actually fulfil all the necessary criteria

it would not surprise me if the optimum number of 8 is not met

I feel people might be doing a bit of a disservice to the clubs. The reality is that none of us know the details of the applications, so there may well be eight or more very strong applications. Indeed the officials from Sunderland were very surprised that their bid wasn't accepted.

The elimination of clubs as we are seeing at the moment is probably, imo, just a natural process and I would be reluctant to read anything more into it to be honest.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on February 17, 2010, 07:10:23 PM
As I have said earlier in the thread, the way I saw this Superleague criteria was like asking a high jumper  doing 1m50 regularly  to suddenly jump 2m50 or more. No wonder many are falling short of the mark...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 17, 2010, 07:23:22 PM
As I have said earlier in the thread, the way I saw this Superleague criteria was like asking a high jumper  doing 1m50 regularly  to suddenly jump 2m50 or more. No wonder many are falling short of the mark...


Partnerships is key to it all.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on February 17, 2010, 07:25:28 PM
In reply to you Sylvain.

Yes that's true. But it's not really about comparing the existing situation with what the aims of the new league are, because they are looking for improvement.

And yes, if crowds don't turn up the league will fail. But then again it should consist of quality teams, playing in the summer, in good facilities and have the benefit of TV coverage. So it certainly seems to have a lot going for it my eyes.

I'm quite comfortable with franchised leagues, quite simply because there is a wealth of information that shows they can be dynamic and entertaining. Yes they are different, but I'd be prepared to accept them for what could potentially be gained here. And in any case the league will be expanded in future years, so there will be opportunities to join.

I'm not trying to make some proclamation of what will happen, but that's just the way I see it.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 17, 2010, 08:01:27 PM
It certainly seems to have a lot going for it [in] my eyes.

In total agreement.

I suppose a lot of the negative comments are simply down to people being set in their ways.  It's a matter of comfort versus the fear of the unknown. Change obviously brings with it the risk of failure.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on February 17, 2010, 08:39:29 PM
I suppose a lot of the negative comments are simply down to people being set in their ways.  It's a matter of comfort versus the fear of the unknown. Change obviously brings with it the risk of failure.
The FA should make sure  there is no failure on that project and not take any unstable team that will collapse. Otherwise taking a team from a winter structure and having it folding in the summer one would be simply ******

This Superleague project is extremely demanding for the  clubs and will be a superb asset for women's football. Today  something  is needed to really  accelerate its development. If it can allow women players to earn decent money and England to win trophies in the near future, everyone who is supporting women's football should be pleased with it but it cannot fail.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on February 18, 2010, 12:17:27 AM
What exactly will happen if less then 8 teams satisfy the criteria?

Will there be a league with 7 teams?
I suppose the answer is - why not?

But, what if just two teams, for instance, satisfy them?  ???

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on February 18, 2010, 01:39:50 AM
What if Arsenal don't meet the criteria?  Anybody thought of that?

No reason to suggest that Everton won't meet the criteria, EFC are fully backing the bid.

Everton plan to play in a modern 13,000 capacity stadium, most probably one of the best stadiums in the league.

I don't see a problem with Liverpool and Everton both being in the Super League.  That is no different from Arsenal and Chelsea being in it. 

Liverpool FC give financial support to the Ladies Team....what if the LFC bid is the best of the clubs remaining? Anybody though of that?

I still think that one or maybe two clubs will get in the Super League that nobody expects to.  Bristol Academy and maybe Barnet.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on February 18, 2010, 04:54:25 AM
I suppose a lot of the negative comments are simply down to people being set in their ways. 

Wow!
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 18, 2010, 12:30:29 PM
I suppose a lot of the negative comments are simply down to people being set in their ways.  It's a matter of comfort versus the fear of the unknown. Change obviously brings with it the risk of failure.
The FA should make sure  there is no failure on that project and not take any unstable team that will collapse. Otherwise taking a team from a winter structure and having it folding in the summer one would be simply ******

This Superleague project is extremely demanding for the  clubs and will be a superb asset for women's football. Today  something  is needed to really  accelerate its development. If it can allow women players to earn decent money and England to win trophies in the near future, everyone who is supporting women's football should be pleased with it but it cannot fail.

That is why the criteria was so demanding.  The FA are trying to pick clubs that have sufficient backing to survive in the long term.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 18, 2010, 12:35:32 PM
What exactly will happen if less then 8 teams satisfy the criteria?

Will there be a league with 7 teams?
I suppose the answer is - why not?

But, what if just two teams, for instance, satisfy them?  ???

All the clubs were aware what criteria they had to meet.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 18, 2010, 01:00:29 PM
What if Arsenal don't meet the criteria?  Anybody thought of that?

No club is guaranteed a place.  Arsenal never assume anything.  One thing is clear, Arsenal always do things in a professional way.  They would have made sure they met all the criteria before submitting their final application.  Remember they have the full backing of one of the biggest men’s club in world football.  AFC have obviously confirmed to Vic that they’ll provide all the necessary financial support, as the quote below confirms.  The club already do a lot of the things the FA asked the clubs to do.

Source: Arsenal – The Official Arsenal Magazine – February 2010

Vic: "There's a big job to do with Arsenal Ladies now at an absolutely crucial time for the sport as a whole.  We're looking at the new league starting next year and hope to be major players in that - the Club has given its support initially for the first two years so it means that, if we're allocated a place, we'll be up and running and it'll be up to us to establish ourselves in the top two or three at the very least.

Notice how Vic doesn't assume anything.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 18, 2010, 03:29:17 PM
Ladies will reap benefits from Trew's Magpies takeover

OOH Lincoln Ladies should benefit from Ray Trew's takeover of Notts County, according to new Magpies director Fiona Green.

County were bought out last week by the former Lincoln City director and current Lady Imps benefactor.
Trew has installed former Boston United chairman Jim Rodwell as chief executive and Green as a non-executive director.

Green has masterminded Lincoln Ladies' bid to be part of the Women's Super League, which will begin in March 2011.

And she believes Trew's ownership of the Magpies could benefit the Lady Imps in the long-term.

"The takeover won't affect Lincoln in a negative way at all. Ray sponsors the club through one of his other companies," explained Lincoln-based businesswoman Green. "In fact, it will probably do the opposite, this should help Lincoln Ladies.

"It's still very early days, but it would make sense for the club utilise the knowledge of a men's club that has been around for so many years."

The Lady Imps should learn whether they have won a place in the Women's Super League within the next fortnight.

http://www.sportsecho.co.uk/news/Ladies-reap-benefits-Trew-s-Magpies-takeover/article-1842189-detail/article.html
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: samtom on February 18, 2010, 04:38:28 PM
so lincoln could become notts county ladies.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on February 19, 2010, 12:03:56 AM
What if Arsenal don't meet the criteria?  Anybody thought of that?

No club is guaranteed a place.  Arsenal never assume anything.  One thing is clear, Arsenal always do things in a professional way.  They would have made sure they met all the criteria before submitting their final application.  Remember they have the full backing of one of the biggest men’s club in world football.  AFC have obviously confirmed to Vic that they’ll provide all the necessary financial support, as the quote below confirms.  The club already do a lot of the things the FA asked the clubs to do.

Source: Arsenal – The Official Arsenal Magazine – February 2010

Vic: "There's a big job to do with Arsenal Ladies now at an absolutely crucial time for the sport as a whole.  We're looking at the new league starting next year and hope to be major players in that - the Club has given its support initially for the first two years so it means that, if we're allocated a place, we'll be up and running and it'll be up to us to establish ourselves in the top two or three at the very least.

Notice how Vic doesn't assume anything.

I totally agree.

But, it's back to the question of the support of men's clubs affecting teams applying - isn't that why Blackburn didn't apply?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on February 19, 2010, 01:10:55 PM
I'll be watching Blackburn Rovers in the winter league and I look forward to a club from outside the Super League winning the League and FA Cups in the next few years. 
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on February 19, 2010, 06:52:01 PM
I'll be watching Blackburn Rovers in the winter league and I look forward to a club from outside the Super League winning the League and FA Cups in the next few years. 

I doubt that would be possible.  The elite players in the UK will all want to be at one of the clubs given a super league licence.  It would be amazing if a non Super League club was to reach a major cup competition final.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Billy Hunt on February 19, 2010, 07:10:28 PM
I think FOK is implying that the super league teams will not be taking part in said competitions.. Although, unless they can't, it will not stop the players from super league entering with winter league team.. Can players sign for both if not why not?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on February 19, 2010, 08:24:59 PM
There will be plenty of quality players not at Super League clubs.  So why not a Premier League club winning the FA Cup and League Cup? 

If I was a President of a 'W' League club I would be looking to sign players from each and every one of the current 12 clubs.

 Players should be e-mailing clubs in the USA saying that they are going to be available to play in the W League from 2011.  Better playing in a USA league than sat on the bench of a Super League club.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on February 19, 2010, 08:28:32 PM
The League Cup will not be open to Superleague club so a Premier League club will win it.
The FA Cup will see the Superleague club enter at a later stage, if  I remember well.

It is a good point about sitting on the bench being the 20th player in a roster is probably not better than having 3 months in the USA in the W-League especially if the player is not paid in the Superleague.  
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on February 19, 2010, 10:17:12 PM
The League Cup will not be open to Superleague club so a Premier League club will win it.
The FA Cup will see the Superleague club enter at a later stage, if  I remember well.

It is a good point about sitting on the bench being the 20th player in a roster is probably not better than having 3 months in the USA in the W-League especially if the player is not paid in the Superleague.  

So Leeds Carry On up the Khyber could retain their trophy where as Emmerdale won't ever win it again...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on February 20, 2010, 09:52:40 AM
There will be plenty of quality players not at Super League clubs.  So why not a Premier League club winning the FA Cup and League Cup?  

In the instance of the FA Cup, where it appears both teams will be competing.

Well you said yourself earlier in the thread along the lines of 'anybody who has any ambition' will want to be in a Super League club and it will be 'social football' outside of the elite league, so it seems reasonable to assume they will be the better teams in the top flight, even by your own estimation.

So you can obviously 'never say never', but I'd be heavily leaning towards Super League clubs personally.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on February 20, 2010, 02:33:38 PM
so lincoln could become notts county ladies.

I've been very clear in saying that the Lady Imps will remain exactly as they are - there are no plans to change the club from Lincoln Ladies to Notts County Ladies. In fact, if our bid to enter the Super League is successful, we will be playing under licence to the FA, and we will have to abide by the terms of our bid, which includes playing as Lincoln Ladies, in Lincoln, for our Lincoln supporters, and utilising all the facilities and partnerships that we have in Lincoln. The takeover of Notts County by our kind major sponsor Ray Trew will not change the sponsorship that he has with us. His takeover of this FL club will have only beneficial effects to Lincoln Ladies in terms of commercial and football staff training opportunities plus others, which our club has not enjoyed before. It's all good news for the club, and for the city of Lincoln!
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on February 20, 2010, 02:38:05 PM
Here you go, the Echo have done the club proud in getting our message out regarding OOH Lincoln Ladies and the takeover of Notts County...  :)

http://www.sportsecho.co.uk/news/Geoff-Adams-calms-Lincoln-Ladies-fears/article-1851433-detail/article.html
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: redrobin on February 20, 2010, 02:52:51 PM
Red Robin,

There has been no decision as to the structure of the WPL once the Super League kicks in.

There was a workshop at the SGM on Saturday to get a consesus from the clubs, however there will be a final vote in March, I believe, when the remaining 28 clubs in the Winter League will vote for a preference. The choices are 1. the structure stays the same with a National Div at the top - 2. just North and South - 3. North Midlands and South all at the same level. The result of that vote will then be presented by the WPL committee to the FA Women's committee as a recommendation. Assuming there are no other factors involved it is assumed that the FA Women's committee will implement the structure voted upon by the remaining 28 clubs. The initial consensus delivered by the clubs at the SGM was that the structure should remain the same as it is now, with a National div at the top unerpinned in a pyrimed by a North and a South Divisions. But as I say, a final vote on the structure will take place when the Super League clubs have been decided and removed from the WPL.

My best personal guestimate from feeback at the SGM - the structure will remain the same - with a strong Winter Premier League with a National Div at the top of the Northern and Southern Divs. My opinion for what it is worth is that this will give a good foundation to the Summer League, and keep the foundations in place for as strong Winter League as it is possible to have. Also, it will provide a strong league structure for players who miss out on playing in the Summer League to play in. Cost is of course an issue, but this has been taken into account by the clubs when voicing their preferences.

Hope this helps...
Thanks for this a little while ago, Geoff. I'm just hoping that the F.A. don't wreck the League in setting up their new baby.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on February 21, 2010, 12:06:29 AM
Here you go, the Echo have done the club proud in getting our message out regarding OOH Lincoln Ladies and the takeover of Notts County...  :)

http://www.sportsecho.co.uk/news/Geoff-Adams-calms-Lincoln-Ladies-fears/article-1851433-detail/article.html

I'm very disappointed  :'(

It says you're "pictured left" and you're not there :o
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on February 22, 2010, 02:53:00 AM
Will Nottingham Forest's no-show at Barnet affect their chances?  ???
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on February 22, 2010, 03:49:29 AM
I'm very disappointed  :'(

It says you're "pictured left" and you're not there :o

They should ahve contacted me.. I have some of Geoff skipping accross the pitch :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on February 22, 2010, 03:54:24 AM
I'm very disappointed  :'(

It says you're "pictured left" and you're not there :o

They should ahve contacted me.. I have some of Geoff skipping accross the pitch :)

Why not post some here?  ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on February 23, 2010, 01:32:35 PM
I'm very disappointed  :'(

It says you're "pictured left" and you're not there :o

They should ahve contacted me.. I have some of Geoff skipping accross the pitch :)

Why not post some here?  ;D

Lol, I believe it's my pic that appears in the printed version of the newspaper itself, though I haven't had chance to see it. Online you have Ray Trew of course. Chaps, I don't believe I've ever "skipped" in my life, not even for charidy. Mr K, you and I will be having words!!! ;)

Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on February 25, 2010, 12:04:51 AM
I'm very disappointed  :'(

It says you're "pictured left" and you're not there :o

They should ahve contacted me.. I have some of Geoff skipping accross the pitch :)

Why not post some here?  ;D

Lol, I believe it's my pic that appears in the printed version of the newspaper itself, though I haven't had chance to see it. Online you have Ray Trew of course. Chaps, I don't believe I've ever "skipped" in my life, not even for charidy. Mr K, you and I will be having words!!! ;)



I saw Ray Trew, of course :)

As for skipping - I occasionally skipped lectures at uni, but couldn't manage anything physical  ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on February 26, 2010, 09:53:30 PM
Seems this thread has been mention on She kicks site...It would be funny if it beat the world record for the longest thread, even funnier if we still weren't any the wiser about the SP then we were at the start.... I think the most posts on a message board thread is 121,234, so probably a bit to go yet....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on February 27, 2010, 12:18:30 AM
Seems this thread has been mention on She kicks site...It would be funny if it beat the world record for the longest thread, even funnier if we still weren't any the wiser about the SP then we were at the start.... I think the most posts on a message board thread is 121,234, so probably a bit to go yet....

We don't seem to be any wiser yet anyway   :D

Any link to the mention on Shekicks?
I had a quick look and couldn't spot it  ???
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on February 27, 2010, 11:24:55 AM
lol I noticed the page numbers and other figures on this thread rising to levels I had never seen on a message board before - not bad seens as only about a dozen of us have partaken in the conversation  ;D

Yes, Link to Shekicks please  :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on February 27, 2010, 03:26:44 PM
I think this might be it:

http://www.shekicks.net/flog/blogs/post/33

The writer's style seems somewhat familiar, and I've heard some of the points before somewhere.  ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on February 27, 2010, 08:02:37 PM
What this you mean....

Quote
(Snowed in)

With Scottish teams only just returning from the close season, for their new summer league, Stu watched too much TV and a cup final...

Well, the unprecedented winter meant no football...and indeed, at one stage, it meant no outside world. I was trapped at home watching old episodes of 'Randall and Hopkirk' and contemplating how much I hated my boss before remembering that I'm self employed. Club websites had lovely pictures of their players training in the snow. On TV though, you could stay up late and watch one player get away from it all. Louise Harman sometimes player with Leyton FC and occasionally Lady Sovereign, entered the Celebrity Big Brother house, to keep us entertained. Among her highlights were, slouching on the sofa listening to Stephen Baldwin drone on about how he cheated death when he received 125 insect bites in 8 days, 'Jesus was with me,' he claimed. A bizarre life drawing class with Ivana Trump as the life model and slouching on the sofa some more, while that old ham Vinnie Jones, ratted and raved about her theft of corned beef.

Louise was finally evicted only to turn up again a few days later on Andrew Neil’s late night political programme 'This Week.' She was on to discuss the laws regarding self-defence for householders, however just before she was due to go on Ms Sovereign promptly legged it. The full blown horror of having to face Diane Abbott and Michael Portillo and yet another sofa was offered as an explanation for her disappearance. Whatever the reason, her next sighting was on the bench for Leyton's 2-1 home defeat to Tottenham Reserves the following Sunday.

Eventually, the snows cleared enough to let me go outside and soon I was off for my first match of the year. This involved a trip down to the dormitory town of Rochdale, for the Premier League Cup Final between Everton and Leeds Carnegie. There was added spice to the game when it was announced that Leeds Metropolitan University had announced that it was withdrawing funding from the club, causing it to have to withdraw from the Super League bidding process. This could be their last chance to win in a major final but as the big day approached, it seemed less likely that it would be played, with the cold weather making a come back. It seemed a strange decision to have a national final so early in the year but the journey down was nice enough: seeing the snow covered hills in the bright sunshine. I was temped even to bail out at Tebay Services and head off into the Howgill Fells on the route made famous by Alfred Wainwright but that would have meant missing an out and out classic.

It looked at one point as if referee Sian Massey might actually call the game off, but play went ahead On the frosted Spotland Stadium pitch, players were struggling to find their feet, indeed at times it was like a bad episode of 'Dancing on Ice'. Everton tried lots of fancy touches that didn't go anywhere and ended up costing possession. Leeds were more direct and quick to close down the Everton forwards and after twenty minutes they were two goals up. Obviously, Leeds, with all the set backs and doubts about their future were fired up for the game. You did wonder why Everton, with the experienced internationals in their ranks didn't see this coming and why they had to wait for a half time rocket before the collective penny finally dropped. Well, when I said it was a classic, I sort of exaggerated but to be fair the second half was better. Everton pulled a goal back and came close a few times to forcing extra-time. But as can often happen, the team chasing the game gets caught out. A Leeds breakaway found Ellen White and she wriggled past the Everton defenders to lash a shot over Brownie and into the bottom corner. This was probably the only real piece of skill in the game and it made sure Leeds went home with the cup.

And as the players went up to collect the trophy, snow drifted from the dark skies (a few hours earlier and it might have been a bit more helpful for the Everton cause). The Leeds fans were happy enough. One person who wasn't happy, ironically, was Leeds' manager Rick Passmoor. He expressed his disappointment at the way Metropolitan University announced the news that they were cutting funding for the side, from a PR person apparently. Then talked about the squad he'd built up and will probably see break up in the summer.

"We haven't a clue what our future holds," he said in an interview to the Yorkshire Evening Post. "But I will drive the players to Super League clubs myself because they are all talented."

(He said this in Tony's pre-match SK Team blog, as well, Stu! - SK Ed)

There may be doubts about Leeds' survival for next year and even the cup they'd just won. It seems Super League teams won't be eligible for next year’s tournament but who knows? Now with Newcastle and Sunderland being rejected from the bidding process, it seems many players may have problems finding a club for next season, whether their own side folds or they get pushed out to make way for players from Leeds or Sunderland. Debate on the new league has filled our on-line forums for weeks. Indeed the one forum has a thread on the subject which dates back to September 2008. So far it has stretched to at least 766 replies - there have been plenty of questions - but very few answers have been provided. How are these franchises being decided? Perhaps a good way would be to get representatives from all the bidders into the vacated Big Brother House. Lady Sovereign could come back to adjudicate, lounging on a large golden sofa. The club representatives could then engage in a variety of games like dressing up as pirates, for example, to see who gets the 'black spot,' and marvel at the irony if it was Bristol Academy who ended up getting it. The ejected participants could voice their displeasure to the waiting media, maybe Vinnie Jones, trying to revive his career as a sports journalist? And Everton who were ejected earlier on, could change their name to Emmerdale and rejoin the process. Gee it could be the big hit of the summer schedule and give the game lots of publicity. I'm surprised The FA hasn't thought of it.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on February 27, 2010, 10:33:14 PM
I wonder who he might be  :D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: KIPAX on February 28, 2010, 02:15:38 AM
I wonder who he might be  :D

well his names at the top.. nott he first time he has been published either :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on February 28, 2010, 03:52:41 AM
I wonder who he might be  :D

well his names at the top.. nott he first time he has been published either :)

Never heard of him  ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on February 28, 2010, 12:35:19 PM
I think this might be it:

http://www.shekicks.net/flog/blogs/post/33

The writer's style seems somewhat familiar, and I've heard some of the points before somewhere.  ;)

Can I take it that this writer posts on this message board? If so what message board name does he use here??
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on February 28, 2010, 02:22:01 PM
It's probably better if the writer reveals themself. I might be being a bit over cautious, but I suppose I could be accused of giving away personal details or something.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on February 28, 2010, 02:52:34 PM
It's probably better if the writer reveals themself. I might be being a bit over cautious, but I suppose I could be accused of giving away personal details or something.

He may already have revealed himself...in various public settings which maybe more information than you actually want, ha....
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Aphrodites Child on February 28, 2010, 08:03:27 PM
awaiting official confirmation but am wondering if I can claim a "you saw it here first" with one of my earlier posts
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on February 28, 2010, 08:36:31 PM
So much for Super League....it seems that Coach Hayes has made a swoop for another of Arsenal's star players.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on February 28, 2010, 10:11:49 PM
It's probably better if the writer reveals themself. I might be being a bit over cautious, but I suppose I could be accused of giving away personal details or something.

My, you are a coy lot - out him and be done with it!  ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on February 28, 2010, 11:19:56 PM
whos that then Fansof kate?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: FansOfKate on February 28, 2010, 11:57:00 PM
work it out -  your best English player (under 28), already spent sometime stateside.  Coach Hayes wants good English players.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on March 01, 2010, 12:00:34 PM
thanks for your help there
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on March 01, 2010, 12:27:55 PM
Emma Hayes twitted they would not sign another Arsenal player
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on March 01, 2010, 12:46:50 PM
what happens to the new super duper elite best of the best sir league, if less than 8 clubs meet the criteria?
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on March 01, 2010, 12:56:06 PM
They will play with less than 8 clubs.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on March 01, 2010, 01:04:11 PM
wow, that sounds really appealling
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on March 01, 2010, 01:39:39 PM
It's probably better if the writer reveals themself. I might be being a bit over cautious, but I suppose I could be accused of giving away personal details or something.

My, you are a coy lot - out him and be done with it!  ;)

Nah keep it a secret its more fun.... seriously though, we should go for that world record number of posts at 780 or whatever it is we're pretty close..
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on March 01, 2010, 02:03:42 PM
I'm sure we'll surpass it! When the successful clubs are anounced later on in the month there is bound to be a flurry of posts, then we've got the whole of the closed season to discuss the progress, players etc. Then when the fixtures are anounced etc etc.  That will add up to probably nearly as many pages as we've posted so far - I'm sure  :)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on March 01, 2010, 03:07:46 PM
I wouldn't count on it...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on March 01, 2010, 03:42:46 PM
I wouldn't count on it...

Well, we could run a little sweepstake on it - I forecast around 1250 posts by the time this thread drops off the front page, and no bumping to cheat  ;D

... any takers?  ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Aphrodites Child on March 01, 2010, 03:48:22 PM
I wouldn't count on it...

Well, we could run a little sweepstake on it - I forecast around 1250 posts by the time this thread drops off the front page, and no bumping to cheat  ;D

... any takers?  ;)

only another approx 1000 posts to go then  
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Aphrodites Child on March 01, 2010, 03:49:24 PM
what happens to the new super duper elite best of the best sir league, if less than 8 clubs meet the criteria?

what happens if just one club meets criteria - oops
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on March 01, 2010, 03:52:03 PM
what happens to the new super duper elite best of the best sir league, if less than 8 clubs meet the criteria?

what happens if just one club meets criteria - oops

That club will win the league
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on March 01, 2010, 04:11:55 PM
they will play with themselves of course.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on March 01, 2010, 04:58:35 PM
That would be a strange thing but the criteria are very strong so  how many clubs can match those will be interesting.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Aphrodites Child on March 01, 2010, 05:42:03 PM
That would be a strange thing but the criteria are very strong so  how many clubs can match those will be interesting.

that's it then Criteria must be the strongest team lol

CRITERIA = CHAMPIONS
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on March 01, 2010, 05:42:33 PM
Yes, some wonderful theories here about playing with yourself  ;D however I'm pretty certain there are more than the 8 clubs required which have made the criteria. Don't know that for certain though, clubs are not privy to each other's bids but that's the impression I get from talking to other reps. I'm sure this will be a league of 8 come the day of judgement...
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Gooner on March 01, 2010, 06:15:38 PM
Yes, some wonderful theories here about playing with yourself  ;D however I'm pretty certain there are more than the 8 clubs required which have made the criteria. Don't know that for certain though, clubs are not privy to each other's bids but that's the impression I get from talking to other reps. I'm sure this will be a league of 8 come the day of judgement...

I always felt most of the clubs would meet the required standards.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: BillyBoy on March 01, 2010, 09:03:24 PM
I'm sure we'll surpass it! When the successful clubs are anounced later on in the month there is bound to be a flurry of posts, then we've got the whole of the closed season to discuss the progress, players etc. Then when the fixtures are anounced etc etc.  That will add up to probably nearly as many pages as we've posted so far - I'm sure  :)

For what it's worth, I think this topic will attract a lot more interest too. David might choose to do a new board/section for the proposed superleague, with perhaps something for each club, so that might be something that limits this thread in the long term.

Yes, some wonderful theories here about playing with yourself  ;D however I'm pretty certain there are more than the 8 clubs required which have made the criteria. Don't know that for certain though, clubs are not privy to each other's bids but that's the impression I get from talking to other reps. I'm sure this will be a league of 8 come the day of judgement...

That sounds good for the league.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on March 02, 2010, 02:32:05 AM
I'm sure we'll surpass it! When the successful clubs are anounced later on in the month there is bound to be a flurry of posts, then we've got the whole of the closed season to discuss the progress, players etc. Then when the fixtures are anounced etc etc.  That will add up to probably nearly as many pages as we've posted so far - I'm sure  :)

For what it's worth, I think this topic will attract a lot more interest too. David might choose to do a new board/section for the proposed superleague, with perhaps something for each club, so that might be something that limits this thread in the long term.

Can't we carry on and set a record?  :D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on March 02, 2010, 11:43:20 AM
Well, I'll keep adding bits to this thread to keep it alive, whether or not people answer me...  ;D

Maybe David will transfer this thread out of this section of the message board into the new Super League section  ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on March 02, 2010, 11:48:56 AM
As long as people keep it going then at some point it will make it...as long as someone doesn't move posts into this thread it should be okay..
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on March 02, 2010, 12:42:12 PM
Carry on up the Womensfootball....... ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Aphrodites Child on March 02, 2010, 04:22:39 PM
Carry on up the Womensfootball....... ;)

did they not film the Carry On films at Elsetree which is near Borehamwood, potential SL home venue for Arsenal
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on March 02, 2010, 04:59:58 PM
how near?, same Country? ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on March 02, 2010, 06:01:31 PM
Hatty Jaques - if she were still alive  :'( - and Barbara Windsor would make a fine centre midfield pair for Arsenal in any such film

Kenneth Williams - Lincoln's manager Rod Wilson??  ;D

If anybody suggests I resemble Charles Hawtree, they will receive a punch to the face  ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: OOH Fayefan on March 02, 2010, 06:05:13 PM
Titter ye not..... ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Dr Gonzo on March 02, 2010, 10:02:09 PM
Carry on up the Womensfootball....... ;)

did they not film the Carry On films at Elsetree which is near Borehamwood, potential SL home venue for Arsenal

If only that were true, but I afraid most of them were shot at Pinewood...For the super league the teams could be re-named after the Carry On films for example Arsenal could be 'Carry on Abroad' Chelsea 'Carry on Matron' and Leeds could have been 'Carry On Up the Khyber' if only.....Everton could be 'Carry On Regardless' or 'Carry On Screaming' or 'Carry On Follow That Camel'
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Sylvain on March 03, 2010, 12:15:58 AM
I think a new Women's superleague section will be needed soon.
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on March 03, 2010, 12:30:32 AM
Hatty Jaques - if she were still alive  :'( - and Barbara Windsor would make a fine centre midfield pair for Arsenal in any such film

Kenneth Williams - Lincoln's manager Rod Wilson??  ;D

If anybody suggests I resemble Charles Hawtree, they will receive a punch to the face  ;)

Kenneth Connor?  ;D
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: Geoff on March 03, 2010, 11:16:36 AM
Carry on up the Womensfootball....... ;)

did they not film the Carry On films at Elsetree which is near Borehamwood, potential SL home venue for Arsenal

If only that were true, but I afraid most of them were shot at Pinewood...For the super league the teams could be re-named after the Carry On films for example Arsenal could be 'Carry on Abroad' Chelsea 'Carry on Matron' and Leeds could have been 'Carry On Up the Khyber' if only.....Everton could be 'Carry On Regardless' or 'Carry On Screaming' or 'Carry On Follow That Camel'

... and for the FA - 'Carry On at Your Convenience'?  ;)
Title: Re: The FA and the Superleague - comments, questions?
Post by: twmcat on March 04, 2010, 01:26:54 AM