Author Topic: London Bees Academy Shambles  (Read 939 times)

Offline higson

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London Bees Academy Shambles
« on: September 10, 2018, 11:50:27 AM »
So the new girls Academy level setup at London Bees has imploded before the season has even begun.
The positive outcome is that, through the dedication of the U16 and U12 coaches, these teams are likely to continue the season but the U10 and U14 squads will not exist.
Having extensively trialled and offered places to girls in all age groups it appears that a funding shortfall meant that the Academy model they originally planned could not go ahead and they tried to shift the cost to parents, asking for £520 per player for the season.
Whilst a number of suggestions were offered by the Bees to work towards a reduction in these fees no specific plans were offered and many parents were unable/unwilling to trust the club management any longer. The U14 squad started pre season training without a coach and no qualified coach was appointed, instead relying on one of the London Bees players to cover the position.
So now there are players who have no club to train with and have been offered no support from the Bees to help with the situation, despite the fact that some of these girls turned down offers from other RTC's to start with London Bees, a WSL team that is supposed to have a training academy as part of their FA Womens Championship license.
Some girls have managed to return to local teams and some others have been re-trialling at other clubs with available spaces, but the experience has to reflect poorly on the London Bees and their management as well as the Womens FA.
The facilities and Championship status should have provided a welcome addition to the N/NW London area since the demise of the Middlesex Centre of Excellence but, sadly, it seems the London Bees are not yet up to the challenge of running a full academy facility.

Offline dirkvanadidas

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Re: London Bees Academy Shambles
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2018, 12:04:22 PM »
The RTC program needs to be aligned with WSL/Champiobship  clubs.
Have to agree that female football is a shambles , only have to look at FA cup team drop outs and the standard of the teams who are allowed top qualify whilst clubs that inject professionalism and quality into the game are made to start at county level and waste the next few years to get to the top.
Why are qpr still at tier 3 says it all.

Offline croc

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Re: London Bees Academy Shambles
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2018, 04:59:11 PM »
Do we actually need an rtc system ?  Would it not be better to put the money into strong regional leagues and encouraging clubs with good facilities such as non-league clubs with 3Gs etc to set up stronger girls and women's sections.    They could supplement it with PDCs post 14 and WSL and championship clubs could run their youth teams in the regional leagues.

Offline Proudmum

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Re: London Bees Academy Shambles
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2018, 09:25:40 AM »
But RTC'S are putting there own money into it so it's not all funded by the FA so  how would this work.... Also having a daughter who is in second year of an RTC she has said how much different grass roots is!! She completed a season in under 12's and had to retrial to get into the under 14's during the summer. I. Between trials at other RTC's she also trailed at Grassroots clubs and for her at 12 she noticed a considerable difference. She got offered at an excellent grass roots club playing up a year to U14'S but also got offered a contract back in the RTC U14'S. I did want her to go back to grassroots as travelling etc but she wanted and did go back to the RTC, her reasoning behind her decision was she wants to develop herself In football and although the coaches at Grassroots are excellent the actually game playing is different as the girls at the RTC are higher level. It's great to be good but to develop I need to be with those that play better.....  So I do think there need to be this kind of elite system for the girls but maybe there should be more.... Such a shame London Bees hasn't worked for all ages as we were also at these trials until we pulled out and the whole way they were saying it would be sounded great!

Offline Bananas

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Re: London Bees Academy Shambles
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2018, 10:19:06 AM »
Do we actually need an rtc system ?  Would it not be better to put the money into strong regional leagues and encouraging clubs with good facilities such as non-league clubs with 3Gs etc to set up stronger girls and women's sections.    They could supplement it with PDCs post 14 and WSL and championship clubs could run their youth teams in the regional leagues.
Do we need RTCs? This question comes up a lot, probably because it's a tricky one to answer. I don't think that any system is perfect, and there are pros and cons to having an RTC system. At the end of the day, though, we need a system that can spot and nurture talent. The RTC system is by no means perfect (and it has some major flaws including lack of geographical distribution), but I agree with Proudmum that one of the most important things is that the girls have to play with the best players possible in order to learn from each other and improve. They also need to play matches against other strong teams who challenge them. Winning week after week is just a waste of time for everyone. It seems to me that having strong regional clubs (or having clubs with astros set up girls/women's sections) would end up just being another elite system where the strongest players pile into the strongest teams. The other question (which I can't answer) is whether regional leagues would have good enough teams to challenge teams fielded by WSL and championship clubs.

The one thing that does seem effective, at this point, is keeping girls with talent/potential in grassroots boys' teams until they are at least fourteen. From my observations over the years (my daughter has gone through the RTC age groups, academy system and England squad, so I've been around a while), the girls who played football with boys before entering the RTCs are usually the strongest players in terms of physicality, football understanding and technical ability. Of course, that's not a hard and fast rule. After that, those girls need more of a challenge than what most grassroots girls' teams can offer, which is where RTCs are needed. (And before anyone gets annoyed at me, of course there are some really good grassroots girls teams out there who play good football and get good coaching, etc, so I'm not dissing grassroots). In time, however, with more and more girls playing football from younger ages, it might not be long before girls' grassroots has enough of a critical mass of players to make Croc's suggestion work. I just don't think we are at that point yet.

Offline Richhutcho

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Re: London Bees Academy Shambles
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2018, 05:03:18 PM »
I honestly think you’ve mentioned a big problem when you touched upon RTC’s being geographically wrong

We have to travel over an hour for our home games as our city does not have an RTC, our local FA when contacted asking about opportunities for shall we say elite girls was that they believe adequate opportunity was available in the city ie grassroots now for me that wasn’t a good enough answer, my daughter without bragging and purely shining more light on the need to be challenged scored 9 in one match playing in second gear, against one of the best girls team in the city, that for me wasn’t adequate opportunity for her progression.

Where is the funding to make sure large city’s with active and thriving girls football and elite players have RTC level coaching/progression/challenge/opportunity?

I suppose only the big wigs at the top of the FA who are good at securing £300m Nike kit deals can answer that one

The problem is funding coming down and reaching the right areas
Who is responsible for making these strategy’s/decisions

Is it a case of more RTCs more cost which they don’t want?

Offline law10

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Re: London Bees Academy Shambles
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2018, 08:12:02 PM »
£520? 

Things could be a LOT worse.

A lot of high end girls programs in North America are £5000-6000 all-in annually for parents.

Fortunately most places in the EU there are existing infrastructures to leverage so that kind of madness doesn't exist. It's good to question the financial element but count your lucky stars.

Reminds me of education... I remember standing in line at a restaurant in New Orleans and listening to a co-worker tell me she had hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt in student loans. And the guy in front overheard and said he paid $40,000 a year for one of his kids and $30,000 a year for the other too, while the guy behind said he paid $35,000 for his kid.

Offline Richhutcho

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Re: London Bees Academy Shambles
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2018, 09:30:26 PM »
But this is england and the FA not America

We have billions swimming around our game yet cannot invest and fund more in youth football

Where does the £300m for kit deals etc go?

Is it ok enough doesn’t filter down just because another country they have to pay more for programmes? Not sure I agree with that especially when the fa bleat how much they want to invest in grassroots etc

Offline croc

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Re: London Bees Academy Shambles
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2018, 02:47:50 PM »
But RTC'S are putting there own money into it so it's not all funded by the FA so  how would this work.... Also having a daughter who is in second year of an RTC she has said how much different grass roots is!! She completed a season in under 12's and had to retrial to get into the under 14's during the summer. I. Between trials at other RTC's she also trailed at Grassroots clubs and for her at 12 she noticed a considerable difference. She got offered at an excellent grass roots club playing up a year to U14'S but also got offered a contract back in the RTC U14'S. I did want her to go back to grassroots as travelling etc but she wanted and did go back to the RTC, her reasoning behind her decision was she wants to develop herself In football and although the coaches at Grassroots are excellent the actually game playing is different as the girls at the RTC are higher level. It's great to be good but to develop I need to be with those that play better.....  So I do think there need to be this kind of elite system for the girls but maybe there should be more.... Such a shame London Bees hasn't worked for all ages as we were also at these trials until we pulled out and the whole way they were saying it would be sounded great!

As far as I know RTCs get their money money from the FA - that funding could go to helping run PDCs for additional coaching, decent county level competition etc.     Inthink the standard would be at least as high and there would be more variety with the cream rising to the top by competition.   Grassroots is only a poorer option because it is effectively ignored by the FA. 

The problem with RTCs is they damage the clubs outside of them and that is the system 90% of RTC players go into if they want to keep playing football.   

Offline dirkvanadidas

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Re: London Bees Academy Shambles
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2018, 07:34:49 PM »
[

As far as I know RTCs get their money money from the FA - that funding could go to helping run PDCs for additional coaching, decent county level competition etc.     Inthink the standard would be at least as high and there would be more variety with the cream rising to the top by competition.   Grassroots is only a poorer option because it is effectively ignored by the FA. 

The problem with RTCs is they damage the clubs outside of them and that is the system 90% of RTC players go into if they want to keep playing football.
[/quote]

Some RTC have some nice add ons , access to club doctor (just like boys), medical insurance paid by club (just like boys), free coach for away games,
extra gym sessions if u want. Video analysis , gps tracking and heat maps etc.
The difference between a county run coe to a pro club rtc is amazing and has improved the players, as county coe drew/lost  with xxxxxxx , played them 3 years later as rtc with all the add ons and decent coaching won 8-0.

Offline croc

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Re: London Bees Academy Shambles
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2018, 12:04:58 PM »
Nice add ons don't make better players though.  You need good players and good coaches, the RTC players come from grassroots and there are good and poor coaches in both.   

I'm not arguing that our existing grassroots system is better than an RTC for player development - just that given the money RTCs are given I think a better system could be devised that keeps high quality opposition through regional leagues which could also bring in the talented players currently outside RTCs.   

Poor coaches would lose players because there would be real choice for players whereas now RTCs are usually the only show in town and if you take your uefa B you can probably get a post at one irrespective of how good you really are.   If there is a club developing good female players why not let them keep doing that and offer supplementary training through regional centres and a stronger system of inter county matches (my county schools FA hasn't even entered a girls side at any age group this season!) and get the FA to set up regional divisions where the strongest teams can compete at a high level?   

Seems to me most womens football fans moan about Doncaster etc not being allowed to compete on merit but don't apply the same logic to the youth game.