Author Topic: Women's football history  (Read 1466 times)

Offline sbahnhof

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Women's football history
« on: July 01, 2017, 10:50:41 AM »
A thread for the stories of female soccer in the past, any time, anywhere. You can post links, articles, books, interviews, videos, newly discovered information, and any questions you have. Maybe there'll even be an answer!


So many of the stories are untold, forgotten, or not widely known, it's useful to tell as many of them as possible. The story of the game in England sadly has to centre around the FA's senseless ban on women's football from 1921 to 1971, from which the sport is yet to really recover. In another "home of football", Brazil, the government shamefully banned women from playing football and other sports from 1941 until 1979.

In that regard, historians who uncover information about football's early years are doing a public service. We have a couple in our midst – our own Dr Gonzo has done much to improve knowledge of women's football. See the threads about Moving the Goalposts – A History of Women’s Football 1881–2011, Woman’s Football 130th Anniversary, Archive Women's Football - Scottish, Britain's first black female footballer, and an interview about the First Ladies of Football exhibition in 2012.


The work that Gail Newsham has done in Preston has given back some of the fame to a club that deserved world renown – the Dick Kerr Ladies. A blue plaque now stands at the club's birthplace.

- http://www.dickkerrladies.com/


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« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 11:53:41 PM by sbahnhof »

Offline sbahnhof

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Re: Women's football history
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2017, 10:52:27 AM »
Found this picture today, it's incredible. Taken in Portsmouth in 1917:


Offline sbahnhof

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Re: Women's football history
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2017, 10:53:28 AM »
Found this picture today, it's incredible. Taken in Portsmouth in 1917:

The way it shows those two sides of wartime England - the factories in the background, and the players (possibly factory workers) on the football field. Picture is from the National Archive of the Netherlands.


A wider history of women's football 1881 to 1921 is here:

The Story of Women’s Football during World War One
- www.footballandthefirstworldwar.org/womens-football-first-world-war/


It's by Dr Jean Williams, the author of ‘A Game for Rough Girls: A History of Women’s Football in England’.


On this forum we've had a few threads about the women's game in the past - two about Dick Kerr's ("Men were men but Dick's Ladies were banned", "The ladies football team so good the men at the FA banned them"), one about Scotland ("First Ladies of Football") and Xena's "History of Liverpool Ladies FC".

A 100-year-old picture fades into insignificance if you count women playing 2,000 years ago in China. :o But the game at that time was called cuju.
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Offline pat51

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Re: Women's football history
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2017, 08:30:41 PM »
If you know your history

For me, Women's Soccer Scene has provided a super analysis and overview

Particularly strong on the events from 2011 onwards. Wish I had written this.....


http://www.womenssoccerscene.co.uk/womens-football-history/womens-football-history.htm


Offline sbahnhof

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Re: Women's football history
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2017, 08:54:10 PM »

^ Yes! :D Best link in history! thank u Pat.


Channel 4's documentary on Tuesday night should bring the story of the ban to a wider audience - http://www.channel4.com/programmes/when-football-banned-women


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« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 09:05:54 PM by sbahnhof »

Offline sbahnhof

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Re: Women's football history
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2017, 12:03:51 AM »
As England play France tomorrow, Gail Newsham has a news cutting from 1920, the last time an English team beat France ??? Oh, wait, it wasn't quite the last.

- https://twitter.com/GailNewsham/status/891049750493057024


WFA has written about the last England victory, on a cold night at Wimbledon's Plough Lane in 1974:

- https://womensfootballarchive.com/2017/06/27/match-england-2-0-france-7-november-1974-plough-lane/

Quote
The impressive Lionesses held on to secure the win, their eighth on the trot. Little did [Tommy] Tranter’s troops know this would be England’s last win over France for at least 43 years!

No less a figure than Jimmy Hill was moved to pen an effusive News of the World column, praising the skill on show and the balance in Tranter’s 4–3–3.



Offline Dr Gonzo

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Re: Women's football history
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2017, 03:18:47 PM »
What are people's view of 'When Football Banned Women' shown just before the Scotland v England game?  I thought it was a shoddy piece of journalism which gave a false perspective on the FA resolution of 1921 and also centred to much on Dick Kerr to the exclusion of all others, with the exception of St Helens.  DK's first match was actually against Coultards and not St Helens as the programme suggested one of the many errors the programme contained.  It since been blocked on Twitter by dear Gail for posting this and a newspaper clipping in response to Gail's assertion that DK were the first team to play overseas which suggests that the British Ladies Club played overseas in 1897.  It seems there is now a new ban on women's football...An open debate on the subject...

https://ibb.co/mFAskQ


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Offline sbahnhof

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Re: Women's football history
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2017, 09:07:36 PM »

Good clipping, cheers


Not enough egg and spoon these days.

The open debate is happening now, it doesn't belong to anyone. I'd trust Gail Newsham on Dick Kerr's history, but not necessarily on all of history. Anyone can see there were other women's football teams long before that team. If she's making claims that can be disproved, then that's still history becoming better known. The important thing is not to get too "Judean People's Front" about it. (That goes for all of us.) "Blocked on Twitter" is the smallest punishment possible, but it's still sad that there's been antagonism.

Haven't seen the documentary yet (geoblocked), but I wouldn't expect much from C4. Was there a lot of 'feeling' the history without the makers double-checking it, by any chance?

And what did they say about the 1921 ban?

Offline Dr Gonzo

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Re: Women's football history
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2017, 02:14:07 PM »
The Channel 4 show revolved mostly around Dick Kerr and the so called ban to the detriment of everything else.  What was annoying was that the went to people who could have gotten a lot of good info out but ignored them to go for the tabloid story.  At least the exhibition organised to tie in with the Euros covered the game with as much up to date info as possible.



https://i.imgur.com/IEYe4of.jpg

<img src='https://i.imgur.com/IEYe4of.jpg' />

In the course of researching the show we uncovered a whole host of new material on Dick Kerr which Gail doesn't have so being blocked by her is actually quite funny.  But do think the 'ban' narrative has to go, it seems to be a road block to understanding the games history, especially the likes of Claire Balding announcing that 'women were told that they couldn't play football and this would last for about 50 years.'  This just isn't what happened.



« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 02:24:22 PM by Dr Gonzo »


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Offline sbahnhof

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Re: Women's football history
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2017, 02:52:13 AM »

Did anyone get the chance to see the play "Offside"? (Women's history play, currently making a killing* at the Edinburgh Festival.)

* more likely making a loss :(
- http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/get-inspired/40802247

- http://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/offsidetour/updates (Archive)




Channel 4's documentary was pure theatre. They aren't in the business of presenting serious history. They just want a good story, which Dick Kerr's is. Having seen it, I'm afraid anyone who told you it was 'journalism' was lying or misled – expecting that was like expecting a serious history debate on Twitter. It won't happen.

It's sad, but bear in mind, most of the audience knew nothing about women's football history before seeing the programme, and probably learned a lot. The errors and omissions will be easily corrected in future.

And the channel's audience are smarter than you think. Of course women tried to continue with football after 1921/1947 – any feminist will immediately realize that. The bans are important because they destroyed the sport's official legitimacy and progress, no matter when or for how long. Attitudes that mock the sport today are partly the legacy of the bans. If you disagree, we'll have to agree to disagree.

The Scots in the audience will surely pick up on the erasure and anti-Scottish bias, and see that this is probably about England and the English FA, not Scotland. (Common problem on C4.) And football fans would have to be stupid not to realize that there were other teams than Dick Kerr's. Media often focus only on the big names – every sport suffers from this. We're all used to it.

To counteract this should be quite easy. People want to know the full story. Share the best research you can – preferably on a website, not in tweets. (Were you writing a book, Dr Gonzo? I've put some of your projects in the OP.)  The BBC's Honeyballers documentary sounds great, I'll try to track it down. The 19th-century stories are just as interesting as the later Dick Kerr's team. In Florence Dixie's case, she would have shocked a lot more people 120 years ago:

The Honeyballers: Women who fought to play football
- www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-24176354


Honeyballers: Lady Florence Dixie and the dangerous women of Scottish women's football
- dangerouswomenproject.org/2016/05/04/florence-dixie-womens-football/
(Archive.org page)

Quote
Florence Dixie was resolute in her ambition to deliver equality for women. In an interview a year after the formation of her club she was clear about her objective. “I founded the association last year, with the fixed resolve of proving to the world that women are not the ‘ornamental and useless’ creatures men have pictured. I must confess, my conviction on all matters, where the sexes are so widely divided, are all on the side of emancipation, and I look forward to the time when ladies may sit in Parliament and have a voice in the direction of affairs, especially those which concern them most.”

Offline Dr Gonzo

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Re: Women's football history
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2017, 05:13:17 PM »
I'll be going to the 'Offside' play this week...It had quite a strong Scottish element to it until ironically I stuck my oar in.  Mainly it was the misidentification of Carrie Boustead as the first recorded black woman footballer they also had her born in Scotland and playing in the 1881 side which wasn't accurate.  As you know by now the correct player is Emma Clarke, but it will be interesting to see what they do, I can always stand up and shout 'this is an outrage' just for a laugh....

The book has been on going for a while now trying to get a publisher to pick it up is the real difficult bit, but so much new info has come in that its still changing, but I've got a couple of ideas to do smaller projects.  Need to back into the OP entry and put back some of the pictures if they can still be found... 

Could certainly do a book on Florence Dixie...  She was one crazy cat.  Interesting to read the articles she wrote about women's football during Feb 1895 and how that changed when she found out that many of the British Ladies had theatrical backgrounds.  She withdrew her support in May 95 but the BLFC continued using her name until a tour of Ireland when old Florence sent an angry letter to the Irish Times stating that she wasn't president of the club so she was both heroine (hero) and villainess (villain) in the space of a few months...ha


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Offline sbahnhof

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Re: Women's football history
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2017, 03:00:03 AM »

Sounds like Offside has had good reviews at the Edinburgh Fringe - What's On Stage did a write-up here.



A video from "BookBreak" on YouTube, a chat between Anna Kessel and Danielle Carter that mentions Emma Clarke and the "Blue Plaque Rebellion":

- www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4kPLrk2EtU



Offline Dr Gonzo

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Re: Women's football history
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2017, 01:01:30 PM »
Ever wondered how all this began? New article in the Football Pink gives for the first time the inside story on the birth of Women's Football..............

https://footballpink.net/2017/08/25/8984/

 


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