Author Topic: RTC Standards  (Read 12044 times)

Offline growler75

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Re: RTC Standards
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2017, 10:50:09 PM »

upcoming NPC for u14 has no soton players and six from the arse.
upcoming regional camp a number of soton players get only one day instead of two ( cos of numbers and maybe one selector has a bias towards own club ?)
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Does each centre have someone inside the National set up then ? Surely people would notice any bias. Like I said Arsenal have good players but from what I've seen Southampton have some equally as strong players and yet are not represented anywhere near as much. Leicester for me are also under represented from what I have seen.

coey

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Re: RTC Standards
« Reply #41 on: February 09, 2017, 11:08:08 AM »

upcoming NPC for u14 has no soton players and six from the arse.
upcoming regional camp a number of soton players get only one day instead of two ( cos of numbers and maybe one selector has a bias towards own club ?)





Does each centre have someone inside the National set up then ? Surely people would notice any bias. Like I said Arsenal have good players but from what I've seen Southampton have some equally as strong players and yet are not represented anywhere near as much. Leicester for me are also under represented from what I have seen.
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The regional talent camps use coaches from RTC, for instance and u16 rtc coach will be involved in u14 at regional and will make selections , there is an FA coach overseeing the regional camp.
The regional camps are the feeders for national camp.
So  the talent id process is flawed at regional camp , less flawed if RTC coaches were used in another areas regional camp and not one where players from their club are involved.

Offline Suoerbug

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Re: RTC Standards
« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2017, 11:16:47 PM »
Bit to much politeness going on around for my liking. From what I've heard a lot of clubs have massive favourite players which hinders others when it comes to regional and national camps. Some girls will never get a fair crack.

Whats the point of giving England camp regulars places on the Regional camps ? The camps are set up to give experience of camps to those who have never been to one so why invite the same old same old. They might get to see qualities in players they don't know much about if they invite different players rather than the same old favourites.  To many players get put forward by technical directors and coaches based on what they do at training as opposed to in matches.

Have heard the biggest culprits appear to be a couple of well know east midlands clubs  !!

Offline sylvain

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Re: RTC Standards
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2017, 09:12:10 AM »
Bit to much politeness going on around for my liking. From what I've heard a lot of clubs have massive favourite players which hinders others when it comes to regional and national camps. Some girls will never get a fair crack.
I have heard it from players / parents before and I have no doubt that certain players are selected while other left out but I would not be surprised if the reason is just England wants players to fit certain criteria and those players don't fit in...

And just for those who wonder, it is not specific to England, the same accusation happens to be reccurent in the French set-up even from the u16  to the senior level...
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 10:54:13 AM by sylvain »

Offline ProudDad01

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Re: RTC Standards
« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2017, 11:51:22 AM »
Latest U14s NPC

Are Arsenal and Chelsea really that strong at U14s??

30 girls

6 from Arsenal
5 from Chelsea

Offline growler75

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Re: RTC Standards
« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2017, 02:18:48 PM »
Not seen Chelsea at under 14's but Arsenal are decent. Having said that there is not mass differences between their players and any others from what I've seen. I do agree with Suoerbug however that there is a bit of favouritism going on within the clubs to push particular players forward, some with justice and others perhaps not.

The problem  to me is which I've heard someone mention before is there is a fashion to go with certain players because coaches/selectors etc state that one particular girl is quality, it then becomes politically incorrect to go against this opinion.

I do think there is occasional bias with clubs. One girl who was at Lincoln for years is now at Leicester is now in the international set up but wasn't particularly noticed till late last season when with Lincoln which is unbelievable as she had been standing out with Lincoln from under 11's onwards.

Offline Welsh May

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Re: RTC Standards
« Reply #46 on: February 23, 2017, 04:51:03 PM »
Agree with others. Back to my point if they had all the players over the season at player camps then everyone could be assessed by national coaches. They are missing some excellent players, some have good and poor season but should be seen. Coaches we know are putting forward their favourites who may be good but no better than others. Best player I've seen all season was from Arsenal and outstanding and is in England though has temperament issues. If Leicester were able to beat Arsenal u16s then why only two Leics players in u16s squad yet 4/5 from Arsenal, that doesn't make sense?. Liverpool doing v well so where are their players?. If RTC2s doing exceptionally well, then the catchment is broader than is seen. Seems unfair, disillusioning for players especially those in RTCs a long time. Something needs to change as far as I can see. Eliminates bias to an extent at least and gives all players a fair viewing. Some players will grow in confidence being seen. If FA people read this change the system please?... too late for my daughter after 5 years of coe/rtcs, but opens it up for others....

Offline croc

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Re: RTC Standards
« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2017, 08:17:51 PM »
Football is subjective and it depends how you want to play - is Kane better than Welbeck - it depends how you want to play.     

There is a danger that the FA think they can pick a future womens England team from kids who have been identified in their mid teens as having England potential - it's not just that a lot of those girls wont push on but also that a lot of girls who aren't in that process and aren't even in RTCs will end up better players.    I was talking to a former CoE coach yesterday and she was on about if you want to play for England in the future you have to be in the system at this age - worrying if that is what people think.

Offline sylvain

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Re: RTC Standards
« Reply #48 on: February 24, 2017, 10:30:40 AM »
Football is subjective and it depends how you want to play - is Kane better than Welbeck - it depends how you want to play.     

There is a danger that the FA think they can pick a future womens England team from kids who have been identified in their mid teens as having England potential - it's not just that a lot of those girls wont push on but also that a lot of girls who aren't in that process and aren't even in RTCs will end up better players.    I was talking to a former CoE coach yesterday and she was on about if you want to play for England in the future you have to be in the system at this age - worrying if that is what people think.

I think it is a very valid point, once you are in the system, you are on the motorway to the England team, obviously late bloomers will get a chance as well but less likely.
I have the example of the first international youth game I have ever wtached back in 2009 between France U16 and England U15

Angleterre : 13-Sophie Harris, 2-Grace Seely ©, 12-Megan Lawler, 14-Paige Williams, 15-Jennifer Wilkes, 6-Meaghan Sargeant (3-Aoife Mannion 47'), 19-Katie Ellis, 17-Brooke Nunn, 16-Charis Jones, 10-Freda Ayisi (9-Nakita Parris 70'), 11-Laura Mills (7-Inayah Robinson-Greenidge 52'), Entr.: Laura Harvey

Non utilisées : 1-Mary Earps, 4-Lillie Agg, 5-Jade Bailey, 8-Chloe Dale, 18-Julie Vass

France : 16-Stacy Riet, 7-Marion Leroy, 17-Marine Morel (8-Mélanie Daunas 41'), 5-Aline Liaigre, 2-Anaïs Arcambal ©, 12-Mégane Duval (10-Audrey Tabary 41'), 13-Julie Alix (4-Marine Le Diodic 65'), 18-Cynthia Viana (3-Milène Anstett 41'), 14-Cloé Faillant (9-Eva Sumo 41'), 15-Mégane Macret, 11-Viviane Asseyi (6-Marie Aurelle Awona 62'), Entr.: Gérard Sergent

Non utilisées : 1-Alison Rocchi

Many of the English players are still around with England seniors or youth, while one France player got a senior cap and another got capped at U19 level and that's it.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 12:19:06 PM by sylvain »

Offline RFA

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Re: RTC Standards
« Reply #49 on: February 24, 2017, 01:24:48 PM »
Having watched several years of academy football I concluded some time ago that different centres have different mindsets - some centres will do their utmost to get their players into the England set up whilst others don't. If my memory is correct, my daughters team managed to win the 17s regional league without a single player in the England system that season. Other centres had several players, all very good but I think my daughters centre was almost looking for reasons not to send players. I could be guilty of being too cynical.

coey

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Re: RTC Standards
« Reply #50 on: February 24, 2017, 02:10:45 PM »
anyone know the score for u15 vs ze germans this week.

Offline Bananas

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Re: RTC Standards
« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2017, 06:43:52 PM »
The match was cancelled because the Germans refused to play on the indoor 4G pitch, or outside in the bad weather.

Offline Suoerbug

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Re: RTC Standards
« Reply #52 on: March 02, 2017, 12:20:55 AM »
I suppose the selectors can only pick who they rate but it would be nice if it didn't always come across as the old favourites especially with the regional upcoming excellence camps where neither the coaches or  majority ofplayers will Learn anything as they've all been there before.


Completely different point here but is any parents /players considering moving next season for logistical/ personal or footballing reasons ?  It would be interesting if any players are considering moving up or down tiers provided they are selected at trials of course !

Offline Welsh May

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Re: RTC Standards
« Reply #53 on: March 04, 2017, 07:18:20 AM »
For us, its her last year, hence her frustration at striving for excellence and never getting the chance to be viewed at a camp. Same players going again this next weekend. We're trying to make her feel ok but hard. Cos they're not giving, even the leaving players, the opportunity. Sadly she may have gone, if we'd moved to one of the lower tiers .... So personally I'd recommend dropping tiers to get the best chance of being recommended? (Given I've heard about local rtc3 players being sent who aren't anywhere near the quality of the players in her rtc1 team. And one rtc2 has played for England!!!). Lots of players being missed through current process. Again I would suggest having camps for all layers and all players so they are least feel they've had a chance and fulfils the purpose of striving for excellence in the RTC system ..... we and a number of other parents/players dispirited by this and has put my daughter off. This week she has said she isn't enjoying it, its pointless, would like a break and return again next season. Disillusioned by the coaches, club and approach ...... we did enter this process with great excitement and do not feel this way as we depart it ...... I do hope things will change in the future. Happy to hear from folks about really positive clubs and teams as we move forward as I hear mixed reviews about WPL and WSL reserves so all advice welcome... anywhere West and East Mids ......... many thanks

Offline croc

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Re: RTC Standards
« Reply #54 on: March 06, 2017, 01:22:35 PM »
It's easy to get caught up in it all I know but football is a great hobby and your daughter can obviously play at a decent level.  Not making a performance camp is a disappointment but it wont affect her ability as a player and if England think they can pick from a small pool they've identified at 15 or 16 then that goes against all the research available.   

Don't be negative about the future, the teams she has available are the destination of countless CoE graduates over the years.   Maybe she ends up playing County league as a hobby with a bunch of mates and a great social life or maybe she ends up in the WPL or WSL - unless she's one of the best of the best financially it'll make no odds and in terms of enjoying the sport there are other factors than the level you play at.    I was talking to a female coach the other day who is no longer playing, she can't be more than mid 20s and was a WPL player- I just find that sad if you are enjoying the sport you play as long as you can, if I could find an over 45s league near me I'd be playing now.  The level you play at is secondary.   

coey

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Re: RTC Standards
« Reply #55 on: March 06, 2017, 04:07:29 PM »
At the 2015 world cup there was indignation from the English after the Japanese coach said English football was 'simple soccer'.
Not sure what the RTC that produces a lot of national players is doing technically in training , but recently witnessed two players ms lumpit and ms legit playing simple soccer. The parents post game debrief from coach was that they should get the ball forward early and into the space, hence the great performance from lumpit and legit. Recently Kelly smith espoused the technical virtues of continental football, hope she gets TD job at the club sooner rather than later.

Offline Boot cleaner

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Re: RTC Standards
« Reply #56 on: March 06, 2017, 10:04:43 PM »
It is definitely true that the girls develop at different rates.  I was watching a girl on Saturday who used to be at Arsenal and unfortunately for her I think her early years physical strength has not been enough to sustain her progress.  Still at an RTC and still pretty effective on the pitch but no longer a stand out player.

Hopefully, most will go in the opposite direction and keep on improving each season.  However to do that they need to be playing regularly and enjoying themselves.

As for "lump it upfield" football I haven't seen much of that at the U16 South games but I did hear it from a parent of a girl who went to an England camp that it was alive and kicking at national level.

Offline Suoerbug

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Re: RTC Standards
« Reply #57 on: March 07, 2017, 11:48:12 PM »
Welsh May its sad that it appears your daughter is to be leaving the system / process on a low. She certainly shouldn't get down about the fact that players in lower tiers have made some of the camps, afterall some of these girls may only have a chance to play at tier 2 or 3 logistically. Just cause they are there it doesn't make them any less of a player than a tier 1 player.  The clubs may have ideas of grandeur being tier 1's but surely all parents watching can't be sucked in by it all.

Your daughter sounds like a victim of some blind coaches or coaches with particular favouritism( certainly speaking to one of the parents at Leicester they are convinced this goes on ).  Don't let her get down and keep encouraging her to play , I'm a big believer that eventually the vast majority of players will play at the level that they are meant to.  Development is massively varying so some players that your daughter may be considered behind now may fall away in the future.  Anyone in the process would like some international recognition for their children but this can't happen number or quality wise but I do feel for the good players who tend to get overlooked.

Offline croc

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Re: RTC Standards
« Reply #58 on: March 08, 2017, 11:52:58 AM »
At the 2015 world cup there was indignation from the English after the Japanese coach said English football was 'simple soccer'.


Hard to argue with the Japanese coach - the England team may be doing ok but they are hard to watch.  Very disciplined, fit, physical and hard to break down but they do lack creativity and fluidity.   They always seem to want to take a touch before playing a pass and the default tactic is to turn the opposition and play from there.   The WSL games I've watched have often been similar though I'm not a regular watcher partly because I don't find them great football so I may be doing them a disservice. 

How do the resources going into the womens game in the uk compare to Germany, France, Japan, Canada etc?   

Offline Welsh May

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Re: RTC Standards
« Reply #59 on: March 09, 2017, 11:35:51 AM »
Thanks for the supporting comments. Playing the county rep games has brought in interesting perspective on a whole range of clubs and all sound to have a similar take on it. Yeah seen good girls across the CoEs/various RTCs across the years. But they're not all in the Arsenal team! Coaches need to look beyond ..... lots of gems across the country who aren't able to shine if the mix they're playing with, isn't right but need to get the chance to .........

Would we have done it differently? Yes we'd would have in hindsight, great thing. Are now focussed on USA scholarship and playing in a team with positive vibes, enjoying the game, good fun, play as a team even if there are 'specials', etc, so the experience is positive not earnest and focussed on striving to be an England player but the best player she can be and having fun ...... just gotta get through the next few weeks.