Author Topic: Jordan Nobbs & Lucy Bronze  (Read 4812 times)

Offline Mackem Steve

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Jordan Nobbs & Lucy Bronze
« on: September 26, 2010, 09:00:12 PM »
I don't know if this had been clarified yet - I know there was a discussion in a thread but couldn't remember which one. Apologies if this is an old topic now.

So, Jordan and Lucy have both signed for SL clubs, yet both are still playing for Sunderland this season.

Now, apparently they haven't actually signed SL contracts and have only signed to play in the Champions League. Lucy played a full 90 mins in Hungary this week and has played today... Jordan also played today.

So there seems there is a big loophole in the rule that sort of makes the rule itself completely pointless.

As some consolation though I've been told that in the spirit of fairness Mick Mulhern is only playing one of them at any one time. If that's true he deserves credit as any team would love to have both Lucy and Jordan in their team.

So basically, pointless rule that can easily be exploited.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2010, 09:06:18 PM by Mackem Steve »
"Sunderland have got a girl up front who is clinical - Beth Mead is one of the best strikers in the country, let alone our division - and it showed today." - Aston Villa Ladies Head Coach Joe Hunt

Offline dowiefan

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Re: Jordan Nobbs & Lucy Bronze
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2010, 09:09:22 PM »
yeah ive just been to game and watched them playing..
i heared that players were signing a pre contractal agreement with teams saying they will join them in the super league.
not sure how this champions league bit fits in but am sure the managers from there super league teams be happy with them still playing regular football keeping up there fitness

Offline Mackem Steve

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Re: Jordan Nobbs & Lucy Bronze
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2010, 09:25:16 PM »
yeah ive just been to game and watched them playing..
i heared that players were signing a pre contractal agreement with teams saying they will join them in the super league.
not sure how this champions league bit fits in but am sure the managers from there super league teams be happy with them still playing regular football keeping up there fitness

Yes dowie and both will play for their signed teams when the SL gets underway, but it seems to get around having to be excluded from playing untill next year they have signed a contract for their teams, but just for the Champions League for now. It's a crazy rule.

How did Lucy play today? You must be very pleased to have her next season. Great, great player... will miss watching her at the Hetton Centre next season.
"Sunderland have got a girl up front who is clinical - Beth Mead is one of the best strikers in the country, let alone our division - and it showed today." - Aston Villa Ladies Head Coach Joe Hunt

Offline dowiefan

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Re: Jordan Nobbs & Lucy Bronze
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2010, 11:41:26 PM »
lucy played damn gd a am happy shes cm 2 everton.... she did go off wi bandage round her head n jordan replaced her but she seamed fine

Offline Mackem Steve

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Re: Jordan Nobbs & Lucy Bronze
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2010, 12:27:19 AM »
lucy played damn gd a am happy shes cm 2 everton.... she did go off wi bandage round her head n jordan replaced her but she seamed fine

Aye she'll be a big asset to Everton, wish her all the best. I have it on good information that she's ok from someone who talked to her after the game. Everton have got themselves a great player.
"Sunderland have got a girl up front who is clinical - Beth Mead is one of the best strikers in the country, let alone our division - and it showed today." - Aston Villa Ladies Head Coach Joe Hunt

Offline EliteImp

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Re: Jordan Nobbs & Lucy Bronze
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2010, 01:27:10 AM »
My entire knowledge of the situation comes from one She Kicks article: http://www.shekicks.net/news/view/1173

Quote
Premier League sides will only be permitted to field one player per game, who is signed to a Super League team.

On the basis of that wording Mick is in breach of the rule today, surely  ???

Offline Mackem Steve

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Re: Jordan Nobbs & Lucy Bronze
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2010, 01:52:37 AM »
My entire knowledge of the situation comes from one She Kicks article: http://www.shekicks.net/news/view/1173

Quote
Premier League sides will only be permitted to field one player per game, who is signed to a Super League team.

On the basis of that wording Mick is in breach of the rule today, surely  ???

I dunno. Maybe one, or both have verbally agreed to play for their respective teams in the SL but signed a temporary contract to those teams to be able to play in Europe for now so they don't sit idle for 8 months. I'm sure Sunderland aren't stupid enough to break any rules and risk punishment, so I'm guessing they are just taking advantage of a loophole in what is a joke of a rule anyway.
"Sunderland have got a girl up front who is clinical - Beth Mead is one of the best strikers in the country, let alone our division - and it showed today." - Aston Villa Ladies Head Coach Joe Hunt

Sylvain

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Re: Jordan Nobbs & Lucy Bronze
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2010, 12:35:52 PM »
Truely the FA just gave an unfair advantage to all the teams using Superleague players compared to all the ones using their own players only.
I have seen a game at the beginning of the season when a goalie on loan turned the game and won at least 2 points for her team.
There was no doubt the regular goalie for that team would not have saved those shots. So if those points come missing at the end of the season for promotion/relegation, it just makes a mockery of those games. Because playing a team with 2, 3 or more extra quality players makes it a really different game.

Offline EliteImp

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Re: Jordan Nobbs & Lucy Bronze
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2010, 06:55:48 PM »
I think we are all in agreement that the law is an ass on this occasion. For clubs and managers FA clarification is only a phonecall away but for fans it's all as clear as mud.

With the change in the calendar this is all new to everyone. But I think in future they should tighten up the rules on dual-signings and/or pre-contract agreements so that it's a level playing field and everyone knows where they stand.

Birmingham, Chelsea etc. all have players out playing for Premier League teams but it's never made clear whether it's dual-signing, pre-contract arrangement or full transfers. A supporter of a men's team, even at low Non-League level, would be fed-up seeing all his club's players turning out for other teams with no explanation given!

Sylvain

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Re: Jordan Nobbs & Lucy Bronze
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2010, 07:07:35 PM »
Birmingham, Chelsea etc. all have players out playing for Premier League teams but it's never made clear whether it's dual-signing, pre-contract arrangement or full transfers. A supporter of a men's team, even at low Non-League level, would be fed-up seeing all his club's players turning out for other teams with no explanation given!
Yep John Terry turning up for Brentford, Malouda for Barnet and Drogba for Palace would just enrage the opposition fans for sure.

Offline dowiefan

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Re: Jordan Nobbs & Lucy Bronze
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2010, 10:20:56 PM »
nobbs replaced bronze so there was only 1 on at a time

Johnny Ramone

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Re: Jordan Nobbs & Lucy Bronze
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2010, 10:40:26 PM »
Women's football is PART-TIME / SEMI-PRO football...i.e. NON-LEAGUE.  The majority of Non-League Men's clubs (outside the Conference) are made up of  mistly NON-CONTRACT players with a few (of the more valuable players) on CONTRACT terms.  This means that only a CONTRACTED player can move for a fee.  Non-Contract players can leave by giving 7 days notice and can dual register with clubs in a lower league.

With most clubs having no reserve teams it allows players not in the 1st team to get match practice.  Chorley FC recently 'loaned' 6 players from the fringes of the 1st team to lower league club Ashton Athletic to play a ONE-OFF c

Johnny Ramone

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Re: Jordan Nobbs & Lucy Bronze
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2010, 10:48:50 PM »
cup tie.  Women's football has been run on these lines for many years and will apply in the Super League.   Only 4 or so players will be getting CONTRACTS....the majority will be NON-CONTRACT.   As the Super League season doesn't start until next year players are basically free to do what they like...

If they are clever they can use the system to meet there own needs...A player can play in the WPL and not sign for a SL club until the beginning of the season....

There is nothing stopping a WPL clubs signing Kelly Smith or Alex Scott for a couple of months, in-fact with the right sponsorship packages in-place WPL clubs should be bringing the like of Leanne Sanderson and Anita Asante to play in the WPS Off-season.

No reason at all why Millwall couldn't get Sanderson and Asante playing for them. No salary cap applies in WPL, so a forward thinking club could bring in top players if they so wished.

Offline Mackem Steve

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Re: Jordan Nobbs & Lucy Bronze
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2010, 01:57:44 PM »
nobbs replaced bronze so there was only 1 on at a time

Yes you're right I was told that after the match and put in my opening post but probably could have made it a bit clearer. Since the rule does state that a club can't "field more than one player that is signed to a SL club" Sunderland aren't doing anything wrong as Mick is only playing one of them at a time.
"Sunderland have got a girl up front who is clinical - Beth Mead is one of the best strikers in the country, let alone our division - and it showed today." - Aston Villa Ladies Head Coach Joe Hunt

Offline EliteImp

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Re: Jordan Nobbs & Lucy Bronze
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2010, 04:08:07 PM »
Women's football is PART-TIME / SEMI-PRO football...i.e. NON-LEAGUE.  The majority of Non-League Men's clubs (outside the Conference) are made up of  mistly NON-CONTRACT players with a few (of the more valuable players) on CONTRACT terms.  This means that only a CONTRACTED player can move for a fee.  Non-Contract players can leave by giving 7 days notice and can dual register with clubs in a lower league.

With most clubs having no reserve teams it allows players not in the 1st team to get match practice.  Chorley FC recently 'loaned' 6 players from the fringes of the 1st team to lower league club Ashton Athletic to play a ONE-OFF c

I'm sure we know all that, but it doesn't change the point I was making.

No doubt Chorley had the courtesy to tell their fans exactly what was going on when they loaned their players out. On the other hand in Birmingham City we have an elite women's team with several, mostly international, players out playing for other midlands clubs. Since we haven't heard a peep out of Birmingham since May, no-one knows on what basis these players are with their new clubs and when (or if) they are going back.

Women's teams are quick to complain about lack of coverage but they often don't help themselves in this regard. Apart from one or two exceptions, the basic requirement of an updated website seems beyond them.

I hope, if and when the FA's SL website comes out, that certain teams come out of hibernation and start acting like football clubs. Otherwise the aim of "driving awareness" is doomed from the start.

Offline Mackem Steve

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Re: Jordan Nobbs & Lucy Bronze
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2010, 04:46:00 PM »
I know what you mean Imp. Sunderland are terrible at updating their website regarding news, or at least anything semi-negative. It took a good 3 weeks for them to announce Jordan Nobbs had signed for Arsenal when it was already common knowledge as The Gooners had already announced it on their website. And I'm pretty certain they haven't even announced anything regarding Lucy Bronze and Lucy Staniforth. It's almost as if they're reluctant to.

But back on topic, another thing that scares me as a fan of a WPL team is the thought of how many other players have verbally agreed to sign for SL clubs but will only sign any sort of contract at the end of the WPL season so as not to exempt themselves from playing. No one can tell me Helen Alderson, Demi Stokes or Kelly McDougall wouldn't walk into almost any SL side. We could lose another 3 or 4 players yet.

It's also interesting in another thread I read that there's been no major signings from outside of the Country yet, no top European or US players, so what we essentially have is the WPL with a different name and players just playing for different teams... what's the effing point in that? Why couldn't they have just done what they are planning to do with the WPL? It's all a bit of a farce as far as I'm concerned and if it doesn't work it'll knock women's football back rather than move it forward.
"Sunderland have got a girl up front who is clinical - Beth Mead is one of the best strikers in the country, let alone our division - and it showed today." - Aston Villa Ladies Head Coach Joe Hunt

Sylvain

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FIFA rules
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2010, 06:47:36 PM »


2 Status of players: amateur and professional players

1. Players participating in organised football are either amateurs or
professionals.
2. A professional is a player who has a written contract with a club and is paid
more for his footballing activity than the expenses he effectively incurs. All
other players are considered to be amateurs.

5 Registration

1. A player must be registered at an association to play for a club as either a
professional or an amateur in accordance with the provisions of article 2. Only
registered players are eligible to participate in organised football. By the act of
registering, a player agrees to abide by the statutes and regulations of FIFA, the
confederations and the associations.

2. A player may only be registered with one club at a time.

3. Players may be registered with a maximum of three clubs during one
season. During this period, the player is only eligible to play offi cial matches
for two clubs. As an exception to this rule, a player moving between two clubs
belonging to associations with overlapping seasons (i.e. start of the season in
summer/autumn as opposed to winter/spring) may be eligible to play in offi cial
matches for a third club during the relevant season, provided he has fully
complied with his contractual obligations towards his previous clubs. Equally,
the provisions relating to the registration periods (article 6) as well as to the
minimum length of a contract (article 18 paragraph 2) must be respected.

4. Under all circumstances, due consideration must be given to the sporting
integrity of the competition. In particular, a player may not play offi cial matches
for more than two clubs competing in the same national championship or cup
during the same season, subject to stricter individual competition regulations of
member associations.

6 Registration periods

1. Players may only be registered during one of the two annual registration
periods fi xed by the relevant association. As an exception to this rule, a
professional whose contract has expired prior to the end of a registration
period may be registered outside that registration period. Associations are
authorised to register such professionals provided due consideration is given to
the sporting integrity of the relevant competition. Where a contract has been
terminated with just cause, FIFA may take provisional measures in order to
avoid abuse, subject to article 22.

2. The fi rst registration period shall begin after the completion of the season
and shall normally end before the new season starts. This period may not
exceed twelve weeks. The second registration period shall normally occur in
the middle of the season and may not exceed four weeks. The two registration
periods for the season shall be entered into the transfer matching system
(TMS) at least 12 months before they come into force (cf. Annexe 3, article 5.1
paragraph 1). FIFA shall determine the dates for any association that fails to
communicate them on time.

3. Players may only be registered – subject to the exception provided for in
article 6 paragraph 1 – upon submission of a valid application from the club to
the relevant association during a registration period.

4. The provisions concerning registration periods do not apply to competitions
in which only amateurs participate. The relevant association shall specify the
periods when players may be registered for such competitions provided that
due consideration is given to the sporting integrity of the relevant competition.

Johnny Ramone

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Re: Jordan Nobbs & Lucy Bronze
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2010, 09:17:05 PM »
Chorley didn't tell the supporters, why would they...how a manager uses his squad is entirely upto them.  Again, the majority of the players are non-contract so basically they can do what they like. 

The day Women's football becomes professional is the day that all 20 of the squad members are getting full-time contracts.  It's part-time football and will remain like that for the foreseeable future, unless the FA really sell the game as a 'family-friendly' sport.
..

Offline EliteImp

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Re: Jordan Nobbs & Lucy Bronze
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2010, 07:21:27 PM »
Chorley didn't tell the supporters, why would they...how a manager uses his squad is entirely upto them.  Again, the majority of the players are non-contract so basically they can do what they like. 

The day Women's football becomes professional is the day that all 20 of the squad members are getting full-time contracts.  It's part-time football and will remain like that for the foreseeable future, unless the FA really sell the game as a 'family-friendly' sport.
..

The women's game is still semi-professional... I believe you. We all know that most of the players can clear-off at the drop of a hat. But still, who wants to follow a team where they don't have a clue who's playing for them from one week to the next?

Sunderland I thought had a relatively decent website - they posted that Alderson had gone to Iceland for the summer and that Bronze had gone away to/come back from America for example.

I've noticed that in the women's game there's a reluctance to say when someone has been playing rubbish/dropped/released, for fear of offending anybody. For the same reason, some teams don't even call the reserves the reserves!

But, even allowing for that, I think keeping fans in the loop is a very basic part of "driving awareness and interest." The top players are the most marketable thing about the new league and club's need to realise that.

Offline EliteImp

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Re: Jordan Nobbs & Lucy Bronze
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2010, 07:36:08 PM »
I know what you mean Imp. Sunderland are terrible at updating their website regarding news, or at least anything semi-negative. It took a good 3 weeks for them to announce Jordan Nobbs had signed for Arsenal when it was already common knowledge as The Gooners had already announced it on their website. And I'm pretty certain they haven't even announced anything regarding Lucy Bronze and Lucy Staniforth. It's almost as if they're reluctant to.

But back on topic, another thing that scares me as a fan of a WPL team is the thought of how many other players have verbally agreed to sign for SL clubs but will only sign any sort of contract at the end of the WPL season so as not to exempt themselves from playing. No one can tell me Helen Alderson, Demi Stokes or Kelly McDougall wouldn't walk into almost any SL side. We could lose another 3 or 4 players yet.

It's also interesting in another thread I read that there's been no major signings from outside of the Country yet, no top European or US players, so what we essentially have is the WPL with a different name and players just playing for different teams... what's the effing point in that? Why couldn't they have just done what they are planning to do with the WPL? It's all a bit of a farce as far as I'm concerned and if it doesn't work it'll knock women's football back rather than move it forward.

I totally agree with the middle para, but the one good thing from the PL clubs' point of view is when January comes round and the SL final 20's are announced, that will be that. I wonder if there might even be players cut from the final SL squads who would do a turn in the PL?

Regarding foreign players, Chelsea signed Hayley Moorwood. I guess the American and Scandinavian Leagues are finishing around now, so if any are coming from there it would probably happen from now on rather than before.

Again if I was a manager I'd probably pick up the phone and get a verbal agreement rather than mucking about with all the dual-signing/pre-contract red tape. It's probably even more of a nightmare dealing with foreign FAs as well as our own!