Poll

Why does it happen?

Is there a point to it?
1 (50%)
Sexism should stop!
1 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 2

Author Topic: Sexism in womens football  (Read 6324 times)

Offline Jules_08

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Sexism in womens football
« on: January 07, 2007, 07:30:32 PM »
im doing an essay on gender and sport at college atm and everything i've found on womens football is someone being sexist specially men? why what is the point? I mean fair enough it started as a mans sport but its only been shown that women play for the last 6 years, not long at all, how would it be if we had been playing aslong as them? would there still be sexism???

Offline David

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Re: Sexism in womens football
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2007, 07:41:42 PM »
As you say it is still finding it's feet but growing really fast now and soon the perceptions will change hopefully. There are a lot of men that do like the womens game though and perhaps in some ways the more genuine nature of it at the moment without the big money of the mens game is part of the appeal. I am sure other members might have something to say about the subject...

On the other hand what sort of info are you looking for ? As there are several of us who might know some websites that you haven't found and might be able to help perhaps ?

Offline Jules_08

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Re: Sexism in womens football
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2007, 07:49:58 PM »
I just got say how women are protrayed in sport, blah blah blah

Offline David

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Re: Sexism in womens football
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2007, 07:53:02 PM »
Do you know the womens sports foundation ? They do a fair bit of research etc into women in sport. They have a website that can be found here:-

http://www.wsf.org.uk/

Offline Jules_08

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Re: Sexism in womens football
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2007, 07:55:19 PM »
Thanks alot, should hlep me  :D

Offline David

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Re: Sexism in womens football
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2007, 08:14:46 PM »
Have you had any luck finding what you need for your assignment Jules ? Just curious ! :)


Offline Jules_08

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Re: Sexism in womens football
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2007, 08:18:01 PM »
Not a lot a bit more than i had, i've mananged to write the introduction but then thats still pretty poor. Thanks for asking :)

Offline David

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Re: Sexism in womens football
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2007, 08:20:38 PM »
Thats okay :) It's an evocative subject and very relevant to the subject matter of the forum. I am sure it's something that we will be revisiting a few times in the years to come. Hopefully commenting about how much better things have got !

Offline Jules_08

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Re: Sexism in womens football
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2007, 08:26:30 PM »
Yeah, i guess. The objective for my assignment is - Examine three ways in which sport reproduces, reflects and breaks down gender divides in society. I found one article and it was about Luton manger Mike Newell, which is the most sexist thing i have every seen!

Offline David

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Re: Sexism in womens football
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2007, 08:29:33 PM »
Yes I don't think Mike Newell is going to live that one down in hurry....

Offline Jules_08

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Re: Sexism in womens football
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2007, 08:32:57 PM »
Nope not at all, i was gob smacked...as a youngen i'll change opinions of others and womens football, if they give us the chance  ;D

Offline David

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Re: Sexism in womens football
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2007, 08:39:27 PM »
Thats the spirit :) Is it something that gets discussed a lot among the players ? Or do you just get on with it and leave things to run their own course....

Offline Jules_08

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Re: Sexism in womens football
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2007, 08:42:59 PM »
Ermmmm i don't know really. I play in a ladies team and i am the youngest by 5 years and we do discuse it sometime but no often. We just talk about how women should scouted just as men but its not that simple. Most women i know play football as thye enjoy the sport not for the money as it is these days!

Offline David

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Re: Sexism in womens football
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2007, 09:16:10 PM »
Interesting to hear your thoughts....Do the women think that the scouting situation is improving over the past few years as the game becomes more popular ?

Offline Jules_08

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Re: Sexism in womens football
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2007, 09:19:50 PM »
Yeah, but only the midlands etc, its like everyone that plays live that part of the country or London! I will improve over the next few years as womens football becomes bigger.

Offline David

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Re: Sexism in womens football
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2007, 01:44:11 PM »
Article about the Mike Newell thing that I found on my searches. A few references to women's football mixed in there :-

Women: behind the stove or whistle?


Following Luton Town’s 3-2 defeat by QPR, manager Mike Newell sat down with a group of lawyers, sociologists and government diversity officers. Together they painstakingly crafted a response to a non-decision by a female referee’s assistant (linesman). Foremost in their thinking was the need to articulate Newell’s opinions in a sensitive and respectful manner.

"She shouldn’t be here. I know that sounds sexist but I am sexist. This is not park football, so what are women doing here? We have a problem in this country with political correctness and bringing women into the game is not the way to improve refereeing and officialdom. It is absolutely beyond belief. When do we reach a stage when all officials are women because then we are in trouble? It is bad enough with the incapable referees and linesmen we have but if you start bringing in women, you have big problems."

Commenting on the mixing of women and football is not new. The wonderful Soccer AM often shows ‘highlights’ of women’s international matches accompanied by circus music. A quick glance through any supporters’ message board will reveal opinions such as: "Women are physically incapable of being properly involved in football," "They can referee any football match providing I am allowed to referee female mud wrestling" and, best of all, "The issue is not how good she was at running the line, but who’s going to take her place in the kitchen." Even UEFA President Lennart Johannson told us: "It would be a good idea for women’s football to be sold on sex appeal."

I’m aware that my next statement might precipitate hate campaigns, legal action and exile to Siberia, but I’ll take the risk: women should not officiate men’s football matches. Bear with me. I’m not misogynistic. Honest. I’m not allying myself with those who believe that women should not be allowed to drive or vote. My view is based not on the weakness of women, but their strength.

Women civilise men. From ensuring that the house is not a state to eating with our mouths closed, we increasingly modify our behaviour because we want it to be acceptable to women. We exercise restraint and calm. We respect social etiquette. I have no hard evidence to back this up, but I feel confident in saying that the country is more feminine than say 20 years ago.

This may well be a good thing. I believe doctors when they say that the odd vegetable between burgers will keep us alive longer. That men are allowed to use words longer than three syllables without being viewed as ‘fruity’ is also a step in the right direction. Maybe even people who believe in sub-divisions of tea and coffee have a point.

Men can get by and even thrive in a woman’s world. But every now and again, we need a release – an opportunity to compete and be aggressive and, if not fully experience what we’re all about, then at least tap into it. Football is one such opportunity.

The presence of a woman (we’re not trying to impress with our immense masculine powers) makes it difficult to achieve such a release. If this woman is a referee, therefore on the pitch in among the players, it is impossible. We want to just go and act naturally, but we can’t. It is as if there’s no escape from civilising forces.

I’m not arguing that women should never be put in positions of authority over men. A woman’s place on a board of directors should not be at risk because it makes the men feel uncomfortable. The success of the business is the overriding concern.

But football is about more than results. Today’s women have a great deal more access than ever before. It should go without saying that this is entirely right. All I’m asking (politely) is that a men’s football match – so important to us – is one thing that you just let us have.
Mark Turner

Mike Newells’ comments regarding a decision made by official Amy Rayner following Luton Towns defeat 3-2 to QPR shocked most people who are involved in sport regardless of gender. Surprised possibly by the lack of the very British "political correctness", possibly by the bluntness of his comments or possibly due to the controversy that was bound to occur as a result of it. Can I point out at this stage that I am no feminist who marches round complaining at anything which may be slightly gender-biased or taking an extreme viewpoint on any criticism aimed at females by deflecting any truth in the criticism onto: "You’re only saying that because I’m a girl." I have instead played, watched, coached and umpired sports for a number of years and no I am not some butch, violent female either! Over this time I have been both appalled and impressed by some male and female officials and this equality is my main argument.

Umpires, referees, officials -whatever you want to call them - all have one thing in common: they are human, they will make mistakes. As a referee you can officially never win! For example, in football no matter which way a decision is given, eleven players and a whole stadium full of spectators are going to be unhappy. Therefore we should be applauding anyone who steps up to the challenge, be they male or female.

Newell may have had a point about female officials, if male referees never made any blunders either. Recently we have had many, well known, officiating catastrophes. For example, Graham Poll’s huge school-boy-error of awarding three yellow cards during the FIFA 2006 World Cup. If Poll, apparently England’s top referee, who before the World Cup started was tipped as a possible Final referee, can make a huge error like that, then it somewhat excuses mistakes made, by both men and women, at lower levels too.

If a female is good enough to officiate at a certain level then why should her gender prevent her doing that? Having spoken to several males, the general consensus was that they would rather have a competent female official than an incompetent male. Sports such as hockey where the ball is hard and is lifted at high speeds, means there is danger involved; capable umpires are vital for safety alone.

Women know what they are letting themselves in for too. They know being an official isn’t easy, most probably they will have followed that sport for a number of years and certainly they will have studied the rule book closely. Arsene Wenger has actively supported women referees saying he would have "no complaints" about women officiating at Arsenal matches - providing they were up to the job. "If a referee who is a girl is better than a man, it is no problem. It is down to quality." Obviously Amy Rayner must know something about football otherwise the FA wouldn’t have promoted her so highly and wouldn’t let her be assistant referee for top matches. In fact, Neale Barry, the FA’s Head of Senior Referee Development, said: "Amy Rayner is one of our leading female referees and is one step away from the national list of referees. She is a FIFA assistant referee." Not bad for a woman, eh?

Over the years huge amounts of time, effort and money have been invested into promoting women’s participation in sport, whether it be in management, officiating or high performance. Criticism and undermining of female officials abilities by comments such as Newell’s only sets back the inevitable time where women are treated as equals on the sports field. Women may be slower but that by no means writes off female sport. Football, rugby and hockey, for example, all look completely different depending whether men or women are playing. You just have to work towards the physiological strengths of each gender and progress tactical play acordingly. But the rules remain the same.

Arguments such as, "It’s a man’s game" and "What do women know about football?" make most female officials laugh. Come on, it’s the 21st century! Since football began it has evolved hugely into the game we see today.

Even now there are huge debates going on about modernising it further with cameras. Surely we will let females referee games before we let a camera take a major role! Further, some of the language heard and said at ladies’ games, is enough to prove that female officials are unlikely to be running off the pitch crying if subjected to swearing and abuse!

In conclusion, I firmly believe that it does not matter who or what you are, male, female, young, old, black, white, whatever. As long as someone’s prepared to referee and get the decisions right, who am I to care what they are? We should be encouraging people such as females and those from minority groups to get involved in sport as a whole, and particuarly in officiating. There is no excuse for slating officials, they are only doing their best and deserve respect from players, managers and spectators, not abuse. Ultimately, without an official, there would be no game.

Finally, I think respect is owed to Newell for speaking out for what he believed, he’s a brave man talking out in such a sexist way! However, personally, I believe: "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt."

Becky Penn


http://www.wessexscene.co.uk/article.php?sid=1921

Offline David

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Re: Sexism in womens football
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2007, 05:40:13 PM »
Courtesy of Billyboy -

Here is an article from the Lancashire Telegraph where Rachel Brown gives her views on the Mike Newell saga. The link can be found at:-

http://www.lancashireeveningtelegraph.co.uk/search/display.var.1020396.0.england_ace_blasts_newell.php

Offline David

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Re: Sexism in womens football
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2007, 01:18:24 PM »
Don't know if you ever saw this 2005 story -

South Africa women footballers told to be more feminine

Reuters reports that South Africa's female football (soccer to us Yanks) team will be coached in etiquette and given tighter T-shirts in a drive to soften their image and attract sponsorship ahead of a 2007 World Cup bid.

Yeah, I know. But wait, it gets worse:

A top women's football official said on Wednesday that female players who dressed and acted like men were giving women's football a bad name and needed to nurture their feminine side by wearing more shapely kit and sitting like ladies.

They need to learn how to be ladies, Ria Ledwaba, head of the women's committee at the South African Football Association 9AFA) told Reuters. At the moment you sometimes can't tell if they're men or women.

...We need to teach them etiquette and the importance of being a role model, said Ledwaba.

I guess being talented isnt enough to make you a role model. What you really need is a skirt and to keep your elbows off the table. Good to know.



http://feministing.com/archives/002915.html