Author Topic: Seeking advice  (Read 599 times)

Offline Richhutcho

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Seeking advice
« on: March 15, 2017, 03:50:08 PM »
Hi everyone

Ive coached grassroots football in the hull boys league for around three seasons during this time my ten year old daughter currently under tens has played for the team ive coached. Obviously as a parent we tend to be a little bias towards our kids lol but ive had opposition coach after opposition coach be very complimentary about how much ability she has. As her coach shes pretty much been on par with alot of the boys who have been selected for various academys. Shes very physical. Great eye for a through ball. Very quick and her technical skills are really very good lots of tricks and flicks which seem to come very naturally to her.

Just wondering if anybody has any advice at all on where to go. Any does and donts. As im looking to now hopefully take a step towards a regional talent club. Were based in hull which unfortunatly doesnt have anything in the way of talent pathway. Ive emailed julie grundy at doncaster belles about june trials and am awaiting reply. Does anybody have any information about york and leeds academys

Any feedback would be great

Offline croc

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Re: Seeking advice
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2017, 04:37:36 PM »
I would be tempted to keep her in your team for a bit.   For me the danger of talented girls playing in boys teams is the boys tend not to pass to them etc - not always but it can happen - as you are the coach you can make sure that's not the case here -  you can play her in different positions to aid her development and all that kind of stuff.    If you had an RTC on your doorstep it may be different but an hour plus each way twice a week plus games (haven't checked but I assume that is how often it'd be) is too much for a kid that age.   

Also if you check out the Midland Junior Premier league u12s on FA Full Time you'll see how a handful of midlands RTCs have got on in an admittedly decent standard boys league - it isn't great.   In other words if she is already in a decent boys team she is probably taking a step back playing for an RTC and you can always supplement her training with some kind of soccer school which seem to be everywhere now - it'll still be cheaper than the petrol for the RTC.   

Finally - I know a lot of  here will be more familiar with RTC players but the best one I've seen was playing for a local boys side up til u14 and then got into a Tier 1 RTC and County schools side who are in the semi finals of the national cup.  It needn't hold her back playing in grassroots and as you are a coach you are in a perfect position to encourage her and give her extra opportunities without the commitment of an rtc right now.   In a couple of years when she probably gets sick of playing with the boys and the RTCs start to take things a bit more seriously in terms of fitness etc is the time I'd look at joining them. 

edit - if my daughter were that young again I'd look at a weekly Coerver coaching class or something - if they can get that kind of ball mastery young it's the way to go imo
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 04:40:30 PM by croc »

Offline Richhutcho

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Seeking advice
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2017, 05:48:28 PM »
Cheers croc appreciate the input

Yeah im finding myself with the dilemma of shes developing very well playing against the lads vs getting her on the talent pathway/gaining better coaching than i can offer her. My main one is id love her to get better quality/quantity of coaching to help her progress even more.

Totally see where your coming from with the points you make, i had a nosey at doncaster belles under 12s rtc who play in the 4th division of their local boys league and they sit midtable, i suppose it depends on the standard of the doncaster boys league vs our current group in the hull boys league and if it would still challenge my daughter as much.

Im also wondering if anybody has any experiance of the leeds,york or doncaster rtcs and if theres much difference between them and how they function

Offline RFA

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Seeking advice
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2017, 01:38:38 PM »
I would say stay in boys football a little longer. As long as it is pushing her and she is making progress, I would give it another year or so.  If your daughter wants to be considered for England, she will probably have to go to academy and if you leave it too late, she will not have long to settle in and get known by the coaches and selectors.  When my daughter was at academy, I had a feeling that the players who had been in the system a few years found it easier to get into England camps.
 
I am not sure from your previous post whether you actually watched Belles 12s or was just looking at their league position. If you didn't actually watch one of their games, I would advise you to do so. You will quickly be able to tell whether the standard is a step up or down from what your daughter is used to. You will also get an idea of the coaching style, what the parents are like etc. Also, ask if you can go to watch training, some academies openly welcome grass roots coaches to training. You will get a lot of conflicting opinions if you ask around enough, its better for you and your daughter to go and see for yourselves.

It is hard to comment on individual academies on an open forum. When my daughter was at academy, I could see differences in the levels of talent in each academy squad but I could also see which seemed to be getting the better coaching. The coaching was certainly better than the average grass roots coaching but I know of grass roots coaches that are better than many academy coaches.

My final comment is that some players thrive at academy and others find it a difficult experience, either way, I think it’s a shame when good players leave grass roots never having given it a go.

Offline RosesAreRed

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Seeking advice
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2017, 03:26:20 PM »
All excellent advice above. The only thing that I can add is that the strongest players at the academies generally started in the boys/mixed leagues, which is great training in terms of strength and speed for joining an academy later. If your daughter wishes to join an academy, she wouldn't miss anything - in terms of selection for regional/national camps - by waiting until she is a first year under-14. England selection doesn't happen until under-15, so if she has aspirations towards that, then if she joins at u14, she has plenty of time to get spotted by an FA national coach.

I definitely agree that it is important for you and her to check out the coaches and playing level of the academies you are interested in. They all do things slightly differently and coaching can be variable (some good, some mediocre, and some totally excellent). For reasons too complicated to mention here, my daughter has attended quite a few RTCs, so we have seen lots of variation between them all.

Good luck with it all :).

Offline Richhutcho

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Seeking advice
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2017, 04:53:34 PM »
Really appreciate the feedback
Some very good information and insight thank you.

Offline pool47

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
Re: Seeking advice
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2017, 08:32:58 PM »
I would concur with the advice you've been given. Indeed if it's feasible consider joining a girls team at grassroots level as well if they play on a different day. There are some good ones out there and it would provide a benchmark. Either way give her a little longer with the lads. All the girls i have seen start with the ladies progress to become decent players in the girls game. My daughter switched when she was 10 because she had to. If I'd had the choice i would have left her a little longer with the boys.

Offline coey

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
Re: Seeking advice
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2017, 08:27:27 AM »
stay with the boys until u12 and change to RTC are u13 , as this is when RTC players are viewed for regional camps etc etc.

Offline croc

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Re: Seeking advice
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2017, 09:57:46 AM »
Sounds like everyone is pretty much in agreement.

Offline StatDad

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Seeking advice
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2017, 07:44:31 PM »

I will add my concurrence to the above.  Especially continuing boys football, provided she has acceptance and support of her male teammates (presumably they are also her friends), their parents and her coach(es) – and as long as she is enjoying her football, and making technical progress.  If you don’t think your own Boys team can provide that, for whatever reason, I would look at other local boys’ teams with coaches you respect.  “Playing With The Boys”, by Niamh McKevitt (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Playing-Boys-Girl-Footballer-their-x/dp/1909534382) is a relevant, and entertaining read in your context. 

If she is a strong player in the Boys team, I wouldn’t necessarily suggest Girls Grassroots, unless she isn’t getting enough footy and provided she is then very disciplined about using it to develop her skills rather than to simply run amok (assuming she could).  Besides practising her skills (youtube is a fantastic resource) at home or with friends, a complimentary alternative to fill the gaps would be to look at local athletics clubs to work on speed and stamina, which can only help her footy, especially in the summer off-season months.  Humberside is well served for such clubs.

You could speak to an RTC about your own Boys team playing one of their teams in a friendly, or even asking local (Hull City?) Academy Boys if she could train with their Development squads if she is as good as their male recruits – it has been done before

It would be worth continuing to scout several RTCs over time, to keep assessing the standard, judge the atmosphere, pick the brains of the coaches, trial even, but only to join at a time/RTC where you and your daughter feel ready, and there is clear benefit in doing so – but do give it a go at some point, she can always revert to Boys football until u18s if she wants.

In terms of getting England recognition, I tend to agree with RosesAreRed’s comments about joining RTC at u14s, but it’s never too late to be spotted. 

For example, an August 2016 RTC u16 signee (having only previously played Grassroots; Boys u7s to u15s,  Girls u15 only), was scouted (presumably) and invited to a Regional Camp last November, National Camp in December, further Camps with International Friendlies in January, February and March 2017 before selection to England WU17s Team for the 2017 Euros.  It might not always work like that, but it clearly can.

There is no “right” answer, as previous replies have said – the most important thing is that your daughter enjoys her football – after that, if she works hard and has a great attitude, the world is her oyster!  Good luck to you and her!!


Offline Maytime

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: Seeking advice
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2017, 11:16:08 PM »
I know very little about RTC's but I do have a daughter (13) who joined  an U14 boys side this current season. She has come on leaps and bounds this season from playing with and against boys. She's determined to play on next year with the boys and I know the coach is praying that she decides to.

We supplemented that with training at a soccer school, the coaches are brilliant and it really opens your eyes to what good coaching is. I would say playing with the boys combined with good coaching without the pressure of matches can be a really good move.


Offline Trickie

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: Seeking advice
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2017, 06:00:15 PM »
This is good to hear as we're in a dilemma.  My daughter is at an RTC, absolutely loves it but misses playing with the old boys grassroots team like you wouldnt believe.  She has come on tons with her skills but playing games she isn't half the player she can be.

We were worried that if she didnt stay put (if in fact they want to keep her), then she would miss out on later opportunities at RTC and beyond.

Sounds like she won't from what's written above but would it be frowned upon by an RTC if a young player went back to grassroots?

Her grassroots team are a very good standard and they all have a great relationship with her.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 06:05:44 PM by Trickie »

Offline RosesAreRed

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Seeking advice
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2017, 09:03:49 PM »
Hi Trickie, 
What age group is your daughter in?

Offline Trickie

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: Seeking advice
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2017, 11:26:08 AM »
shes U10 RosesAreRed

Offline RosesAreRed

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Seeking advice
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2017, 01:24:06 PM »
shes U10 RosesAreRed

U10 is really young so having your daughter in a team she loves is important. She definitely won't miss out if she leaves the RTC at this point and she would gain a lot by playing with skilled boys. I don't think it would be frowned upon by the RTC unless they are unusually possessive of their younger players. If she has aspirations to play for England, though, then she'd want to rejoin an RTC as an u14 so she can start attending regional camps and be seen by England scouts. One caution is to ensure that if she leaves the RTC now, that she really works on her technical skills and one touch passing so that when/if she returns to the RTC, she will impress at trials and beyond.

It might be worth you having a conversation with the RTC technical director since s/he might allow your daughter to train once a week with the RTC while she plays grassroots. Just a thought!

Offline Trickie

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: Seeking advice
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2017, 04:25:42 PM »
Thank you, appreciate your advice RosesAreRed